If Holden was ever sold?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by coupex

GM are giving away Opel for free.

Opel - whole company worth less than a single car
General Motors wants out of Opel badly, and according to new reports, it's willing to let the German automaker go without taking any money for it. The only requirement is that the new owner must inject €500 million into Opel for operations. While GM boss man Fritz Henderson has said there are six serious investors in discussions for Opel, and that a deal should be done by early May, the fact that GM has said "if you pay the bills she's all yours" shows that GM is ready to work with anyone who's willing to sign up.

http://www.carandsuv.co.nz/news/8900...e-car-it-makes

All the engineering from Opel went to GM and then they made Opel pay for their own designs. So getting rid of Opel would mean that GM would still get royalties for opels design. So why not give it away for nothing.

Funny enough the same thing seems to be happening to Holden, so I hope that's not a sign for them to go get sold off. I still think Holden is a strategic company for GM in terms of distribution.

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by buickman

Didn't GMH go it alone in the 80's from the US divisions with there own 6's & 8 's? They went from GM to GMH Australia.

Simply put - No

There was a thread I saw somewhere that showed proof that GM has owned holden from before it produced its first complete car.

[ranger58]

From wikipedia

In 1852, James Alexander Holden emigrated to South Australia from England and in 1856 established J.A. Holden & Co, a saddlery business in Adelaide.[1] Edward Holden, James' son, joined the firm in 1905 with an interest in automobiles.[2] From there, the firm evolved through various partnerships and, in 1908, Holden and Frost moved into the business of minor repairs to car upholstery.[3] The company began to produce complete motorcycle sidecar bodies in 1913, and Edward experimented with fitting bodies to different types of carriages.[4] After 1917, wartime trade restrictions led the company to start full-scale production of vehicle body shells.
J.A. Holden founded a new company in 1919, Holden's Motor Body Builders Ltd (HMBB) specialising in car bodies. By 1923, HMBB were producing 12,000 units per year.[3] During this time, HMBB was the first company to assemble bodies for Ford Australia until their Geelong, Victoria, plant was completed.[5] From 1924, HMBB became the exclusive supplier of car bodies for GM in Australia, with manufacturing taking place at the new Woodville, South Australia plant.[6] These bodies were made to suit a number of chassis imported from manufacturers such as Chevrolet and Dodge.[3] The Great Depression era led to a substantial downturn in production, from 34,000 units annually in 1930 to just 1,651 units one year later.[3] In 1931, GM purchased the business and formed General Motors–Holden's Ltd.[7] Since then, two name changes have occurred: the first, in 1998, changed the name to Holden Ltd, and the second, in May 2005, to GM Holden Ltd.[8]

[Wally]

http://www.anynewcar.com.au/holden-history.htm

[Kamshaaft]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

All three are adjunct failures.... and somehow all linked together.

You had me up until this, even after your very poorly veiled stabs at the Alloytec. Try learning a bit more about the subject at hand mate. You can start here.

Originally Posted by Falc'man

It will have no affect whatsoever, because Holden is, and will always remain, 'Australian'.

Jokes aside, I thought Holden was a centre of excellent for GM??? Sure they've been losing money since 2004, but the same can be said about any other car company, and certainly nearly all the GM subsidiaries.

And I believe the reason they're losing money is because of GM's sanctioned Zeta platform, which was meant to be GM's Global Rear Wheel Drive. The brief was to build this behemoth floorpan to cater for all of GM's RWD, but then no one told GM the GFC was about to happen (Nor did GM heed any warnings, dating as far back as '82, that they would sooner or later be the cause for their own destruction).

Basically, Holden got screwed by their parent, with export promises that couldn't be kept.

I hope Holden survive in one form or another, Ford needs the competition to keep offering their best. But whatever happens to them it won't change my view that they are a bunch of .

Change up a few things (GM and other car companires screwed in turn by CAFE regulations coming down hard in the US is the biggest blow to the Zeta platform), and it's Quoted For Truth.

[ea90gl]

All this talk and what if's, rest assured people the company will stay. grow and remain the best since we all know "Holden's go better"....... The ads tell us so it must be true

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Kamshaaft

You had me up until this, even after your very poorly veiled stabs at the Alloytec. Try learning a bit more about the subject at hand mate. You can start here.

ive driven enough, that's all the experience i need. You won't find allot of support for that V6 around here..... or anywhere for that matter.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by CADSKY

yep 100% agree. just imagine ford going it alone in Aus, there would be no pressure to constantly design and build stronger and more powerful engines. turbo would be dumped, v6 would be introduced and the V8 wouldnt get anywhere near the amount of power gains it has got in the last 5 years.

Although there would be a considerable effect in competition in the australian market, the effect would not be a profound as this statement. There would still be considerable competition from other manufacturers from both europe and asia.

There would be a difference in the aussie RWD large car market and in theory could spell the end of the big aussie 6/RWD car as the buying public become more accustomed to smaller imported vehicles due to lack of choice. It would indeed be a sad day for australia if GMH was to fold and not something I would ever hope for. Last thing we need is the loss of 100's of thousands of jobs.

[greenfoam]

About baging the alloytec, I was one of the first to jump on the alloytec bashing wagon but lately those things are running low 13's with a cam change so I'm starting to change my mind a little

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by greenfoam

About baging the alloytec, I was one of the first to jump on the alloytec bashing wagon but lately those things are running low 13's with a cam change so I'm starting to change my mind a little

I think you may need to change all four cams . No one said it wasn't powerful, it just sounds and feels rubbish, very course, non inspiring, and last but not least, gutless down low. It would be better suited to an LJ.

[greenfoam]

Indeed it would be a monster in LJ, but I don't think it even fits in a VN lol, it's pretty fat

[Kamshaaft]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

ive driven enough, that's all the experience i need. You won't find allot of support for that V6 around here..... or anywhere for that matter.

Mate I have to agree with you - In fact I've actually got one in my VZ Berlina and I (as a bloke with a heavy foot and a light wallet) much prefer the Ford 4.0L in my EF (which is spot on 10 years older to boot) so I've gotta have a pretty good feel for both. The Alloytec can be an alright engine, and I'm not saying you're wrong about it being not as good as it should be.

What I'm saying is that you're saying "All these brands are going under because they have Alloytecs in their cars" is a bit rash and is definitely far from the truth. Does that mean the Alloytec is the kind of sixes? No, not really . Sales have never accurately reflected superior engineering.

Sidenote: It's an (barely) arguable point, but IMHO the Alloytec is still a bit better than the bulletproof but dull Buick 3800 in older Commies - just so no-one says I'm plainly comparing a V6 to an I6 -though I don't expect anyone to jump to the commodore's defence here :p.

I've always had the opinion that Ford rules the sixes and Holden rules the eights. No comparison in either camp - unless you start drawing lines to big dollar donks.


Another observation is that the VZ & VY models are from my experience the pinnacle of interior build quality and fit & finish in post-'classic' Commodores, while the post-classic Falcons through to AU match it for quality, and BA onwards aren't quite as nice - despite have more tasteful colour choices, fancier , and overall design.

But that's my opinion, were off track, and you're ready to cast down a heretic.

[arlester]

Sorry I am alittle late on the subject but can i get somebody to just give me a run down on what is happening.

I heard on the news the other day that GM had infact decided to drop Pontiac and Holden. Just wanting to make sure this is right or have GM not done that YET...

[RPO83]

Originally Posted by arlester

Sorry I am alittle late on the subject but can i get somebody to just give me a run down on what is happening.

I heard on the news the other day that GM had infact decided to drop Pontiac and Holden. Just wanting to make sure this is right or have GM not done that YET...

From what I am hearing Pontiac will be wound up by 2011.