alignment settings

alky89 · 06-06-2009, 11:02 PM

hi guys,

i have an 04 LR zetec and would like some recommendations for wheel alignment specs. everything is stock and i will be running kumho ku-36 tyres when i get the alignment. the plan is to do a track day every month or 2 until the tyres are finished. any suggestions for a good alignment for this application?

this is what im thinking:

front:
camber- max negative
toe- not sure

rear:
toe- 0 (its still my daily driver so im not brave enough to run toe out, especially with all the rain we've been getting)
camber- i think this is dependent on the toe setting but im not sure

also can the camber and toe be adjusted independently front and back?

thanks for any help!

svo supporter · 07-06-2009, 01:45 AM

Firstly, if you're planning track work and driving on the road, be prepared for inside edge wear.

With this in mind, look for even toe on the front, or you could go as far as about 2MM toe out on the front. The rear you'd be looking round the 0 - 2MM toe out as well. These are totals. Cambers I don't think are adjustable anyway, so you'll be stuck with what it's got. This will help getting into and out of the corners a bit quicker than normal.

If you just want it for the road, look for 1 - 1.5 Mm toe in on the front depending on cambers. The rear look for 2MM toe in on the rear. Again, these are totals.

One thing that must be realised is track toe and camber settings are different to road going settings. Track work is dependant on cornering speeds being maximised. For the road, the emphasis is on maximising tyre life. The track settings I have given are about the best compromise between the 2 styles of work you're expecting from the car. The track settings provided ae going to scrub the inside edges of the tyres very quickly, so just be prepared for that.

Good luck with it

melbzetec · 07-06-2009, 09:20 AM

You may want to look at some of this gear in order to allow you adjustment of camber etc
http://focus.c-f-m.com/index.asp?Pag...S&Category=304

alky89 · 07-06-2009, 03:58 PM

thanks for the replies.

melbzetec- thanks for the link but im not looking to throw money into the car i am only going to keep it for another year or 2 or until i can afford something a bit more serious for track work (an s15 is on the wish list)

svo- thanks for the suggestions mate. so based on your suggestions, im thinking 1mm toe out at each end and whatever camber i can get with those toe values. im hoping this will give me the better turn in im after without drilling the inner edge too much.

to be honest im not too worried about inner edge wear. my current tyres have taken it much harder on the outside shoulders. i think its a combination of a few visits to the track and also i never get on the highway. its always roundabouts and corners (which i like to take a bit quicker than average joe). my current alignment is front: 0.3mm toe in total, -0.3deg camber each side. rear: 2.7mm toe in, -1.4deg camber each side.

i understand the benefit of toe in/out at the back but can someone explain the use of toe out at the front? that ones always puzzled me.

thanks again

Fast Eddie · 07-06-2009, 04:29 PM

I've always been curious about how different wheel alignment operators/machines arrive at the correct setting for the LR. I have used the same guys twice in a row now and the first instance they've got it spot on but last time I felt the front end wasn't correctly aligned and took it back and sure enough after they re-did it my Focus felt and handled as it should so it must have been incorrect.

Does the operator use a Factory setting provided by Ford for them to do they job properly or is it just experience??

alky89 · 07-06-2009, 05:40 PM

yeah car manufacturers have a set tolerance for each vehicle. e.g lr focus front toe must be between 0 and 1 and camber has to be between 0 and -0.5 or something like that (i just made up the figures as an example). but most places will tailor it a bit to suit your needs if you request it.

svo supporter · 07-06-2009, 10:50 PM

Generally with alignments, it's more from experience rather than what the factory recommends. Some of the factory recommended specs I've seen are stupid.

For the Focus, with the camber on the front, I'd be looking round the 1MM total toe in on the front. The rears, with the camber, I'd be looking round the 2.5 total toe in, due to the bigger negative cambers.

The reason you add a go a little more toe in with higher negative cambers, is so you take the weight off the inside edge of the tyre, therefore allow more life from them.

The reason behind toe out for race purposes is you have the tyre looking at the corner straight up. When you move off in any car, the front wheels actually push outwards to begin with. So, by having the tyre looking outwards to start off, when the car is moving it's pushed out slightly more allowing it to turn into the corner quicker.

Hope that helps a little.

melbzetec · 07-06-2009, 11:52 PM

Is that still the case for Front Wheel Drive cars?

I seem to recall a suggestion that you need a little toe in, because once you apply power through the front wheels it will push to toe out

futura97 · 08-06-2009, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by melbzetec

Is that still the case for Front Wheel Drive cars?

I seem to recall a suggestion that you need a little toe in, because once you apply power through the front wheels it will push to toe out

Thats what I got taught at my previous job. We use to set FWD cars to about 0-0.5mm toe in, 4wd's to about 0, and RWD's to 1-1.5mm toe in.

However, if the customer was after better handling characteristics, then what the guys have already mentioned is spot on.

Cheers

svo supporter · 08-06-2009, 12:33 PM

All cars move to toe out when they move off, not just FWD cars.

As for what the settings are for various types of drives, I generally go by experience and tyre wear. Go hand in hand.

An example with the 4WD drive range. Nissan Patrols, yep go 0 toe. Toyota Prado/Landcruiser 2Mm toe in. Then you've got to think of Camber settings as well. More negative camber, more toe in. Positive cambers, close to 0 toe. So, it's a juggling act and memory recall plays a big part too.

Doing it day in day out helps.

alky89 · 08-06-2009, 11:42 PM

thanks for all the interest.

but i have gotten a little confused. svo- if i've read correctly you seem to have given 2 alignment suggestions. can you please clarify your final recommendations? keeping in mind the car will be used for regular track days (every month or 2) and still be my daily driver (mostly suburban areas, rarely on the highway). i'd like some good turn in and grip but dont want to burn up good tyres on the street due to an overly aggressive alignment. thanks alot.

also im pretty sure the focus cant be adjusted for caster but someone let me know if i'm wrong.

thanks

futura97 · 09-06-2009, 02:03 PM

I think you'll find your pretty limited to the setup on your focus. I think the only real adjustment is toe, and for that be best to have toe out - and experimenting is the best way to discover whats optimum. Try to find a good bloke to do your wheel alignments and explain to him what your wanting to acheive and your willing to experiment a little. You could start with 1mm toe out, then 2mm then 2.5 etc...

From memory the camber is non adjustable, nor can you get a camber pin due to the setup. Its not like a conventional chapman strut, where the knuckle bolts to the strut. I think the strut instead slides into the knuckle, then has one locking bolt. I'm not sure, but there might be a camber kit which bolts to the top of the strut and allows you to reposition where the top sits - giving you camber adjustment.

But i reckon the best bet is to experiment, and go with what you feel is optimum.

SVO - your quite right about the 4WD's. I was making a generalization that solid axle front ends where generally 0, but independent front ends could be 0.5 - 1mm toe in.

Cheers

svo supporter · 09-06-2009, 06:05 PM

No probs FUTURA 97.

ALKY89. For what your asking, sorry but you can't have the best of both worlds. If you want good turn in, you'll need a toe out setting starting from 0 toe to round the 2 Mm toe out. This WILL take the inside edges off the tyres.

Maybe just go 0 total toe for what you're asking and be prepared to rotate every 5,000K to get as much as possible from the tyres. This may help the tyres live a little longer. That's about the best advise I can give.

alky89 · 09-06-2009, 10:14 PM

thanks alot for all the help. i rotate the tyres between each track day so thats about every 1500-2000km. i will talk to the alignment guy and start with 0 toe front and back and work from there to come up with the best solution. will likely have to fiddle around a bit based on the camber. thanks again.

cheers