Doesn't seem right, does it?

Fled74 · 04-10-2010, 12:37 PM

Herald Sun link

A SENIOR Australian Federal Police officer allegedly caught travelling at more than 40km/h over the speed limit escaped a fine after a fellow officer decided a warning was sufficient.

This was because the traffic was light and he was an experienced driver, according to documents seen by the Herald Sun.

The documents were produced after Richard Curie, a junior officer who pulled over off-duty Supt Eric Grimm for allegedly travelling at 120km/h in an 80km/h zone, complained he had been pressured to issue a warning notice and not a fine after he returned to his station.

Although the Professional Standards investigation concluded Constable Curie had not been improperly influenced, concerns were raised about why Supt Grimm - an experienced surveillance officer and a co-ordinator at the AFP college in Canberra - escaped with just a warning.

"I am unclear as to why a decision was made to issue Co-ordinator Grimm with a (caution) rather than a traffic infringement notice. Co-ordinator Grimm is alleged to have been travelling at a speed in excess of 40km/h over the posted speed limit," said internal affairs investigator Jenny Russ in the document.

In another document, Constable Curie's station boss, Sgt Anthony Ghirardello, says he "suggested" to the junior officer that he consider sending Supt Grimm a caution notice.

"I believe the member stopped had a good driving record," Sgt Ghirardello said in a letter to Professional Standards.

"At that time of the morning, traffic would be light and there would be no danger to members of the public."

Sgt Ghirardello also told internal affairs that Constable Curie was inexperienced in conducting speed checks and was driving an AFP vehicle that "did not have a certified speedometer" when he pulled Supt Grimm over.

"The alleged offending driver was a trained surveillance officer who I believe had challenged the speed nominated ... the member involved would be able to mount a reasonable case for the matter not to be proved beyond reasonable doubt in a court of law," Sgt Ghirardello said.

The documents also allege Supt Grimm placed a lanyard over his neck after he got out of the car he was driving when he was pulled over in 2007.

The AFP has twice refused to answers questions about Supt Grimm's warning.

It also refused to say how many other motorists had received warnings when allegedly caught speeding in a similar range.

AFP Commissioner Tony Negus refused to say if he would support members of the public receiving warnings instead of fines when the traffic was light.

Supt Grimm did not respond to a request for comment.

**Polyal** · 04-10-2010, 12:43 PM

Oh must be a slow news day. Road? Conditions etc...media just like to beat things up. And why does the sun get any data from internal affairs?

If it makes people feel any better it does happen to the public too, I was let off a few years back at 30 over. (not in an 80 zone though, not that it excuses it)

Kryton · 04-10-2010, 12:47 PM

I thought this was at least 6 month old news..............

flappist · 04-10-2010, 12:54 PM

Some years ago there was a young copper who was "stuck" in the store at the academy. He had been there for several years and any request for transfer was rejected.

His crime to warrant such punishment?

He booked Russ Hinze for speeding......

Ah I do so miss the good old days........

geckoGT · 04-10-2010, 03:58 PM

I can see where the paper is coming from.

If they are are booking people for infringements as low as 3 km/h over citing that that any speeding is unsafe, how can they give their own a warning for 40 km/h over?

Fair enough, speeding is speeding but the police have to be policed as well, we have to have a level playing field. I know of a paramedic recently that in his own car was done for a similar speed in a similar situation and he was fined and now has a suspended licence (with the employment limitations that go with it, the service would not support him), the cop told him straight "you should know better". What makes this so different, surely a paramedic experienced at driving a glorified delivery van in emergency conditions has to be considered a "experienced driver", perhaps Craig Lowndes and Mark Skaife can drive at 50 km/h over, they are experienced. Surely if a Paramedic "should know better", so should a senior cop.

I am actually all for the cops having a little discretion on the fines they dish out but anything that normally attracts licence suspension should not be able to be downgraded to a warning

TheZHLANE · 04-10-2010, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Oh must be a slow news day. Road? Conditions etc...media just like to beat things up. And why does the sun get any data from internal affairs?

If it makes people feel any better it does happen to the public too, I was let off a few years back at 30 over. (not in an 80 zone though, not that it excuses it)

I was doing 120 in a 70 with an undercover behind me pulled me over and let me go?

Mickxr8 · 04-10-2010, 06:36 PM

and theres no coverups,corruption,intimidation in the force ?. I totally believe 95%
of cops (on the beat ) are good cant say the same for some of the ol skool doughnut pigs that spend there days now in there "office" looking after there "mates".

mik · 04-10-2010, 06:38 PM

zero tolerance for some........... not others.

WMD351 · 04-10-2010, 06:48 PM

Personally I think it's sad that the police have lost so much of their discretionary power over the years, well officially anyway.

I think they were a lot more effective when they were allowed to use their own judgment and basic common sense.
But this story really comes down to the first lesson I learned in adult life, it's not what you know, it's who you know.

geckoGT · 04-10-2010, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WMD351

Personally I think it's sad that the police have lost so much of their discretionary power over the years, well officially anyway.

I think they were a lot more effective when they were allowed to use their own judgment and basic common sense.
But this story really comes down to the first lesson I learned in adult life, it's not what you know, it's who you know.

Without going too far into the whole speed camera thing, I think this discretionary power was heavily eroded the moment they began deploying non discretionary cameras. Then they began dropping the trigger speed for those cameras, further eroding those powers.

Look at it this way, a guy on a open area with nil traffic and nil hazards in a 80 zone gets done by a mobile unit at 120 and is let off with a warning. In the same area 30 mins later a camera unit is set up and another motorist is done for 87 in the same zone, which one is worse? Why is it the mobile unit has powers of discretion but the camera unit has no system for the officers to use discretion, exceed the trigger speed = fine, no questions asked and no quarter given.

LIke I said, you need a level playing field, one way or the other, not both ways.

castellan · 04-10-2010, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Some years ago there was a young copper who was "stuck" in the store at the academy. He had been there for several years and any request for transfer was rejected.

His crime to warrant such punishment?

He booked Russ Hinze for speeding......

Ah I do so miss the good old days........

Sounds like bull s#^t to me flappist. Russ did not drive.
And anyone who would try to book him must of been a fool.

**TUF_302** · 04-10-2010, 07:43 PM

So to get out of fines you just have to be in the force? Bit unfair i would think especially at over 40k over the limit!

flappist · 04-10-2010, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by castellan

Sounds like bull s#^t to me flappist. Russ did not drive.
And anyone who would try to book him must of been a fool.

1) I have met the guy as he was a mate of a schoolfriend who was also at the academy, his name was Fowler.

2) I have personally seen Russ Hinze drive a HZ Premier to attend a media stunt on the Bruce Highway upgrades between Rockhampton and Mt Larcom in 1979 when I was working up there. It was near the Takilberan Ck bridge.

FocusLX06 · 04-10-2010, 08:12 PM

/off topic
God Damn I hate the stretch of road between Mt Larcom and Rocky!

platinumXR · 04-10-2010, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TUF_302

So to get out of fines you just have to be in the force?

Um...no.

Not the way it works...usually...he should not have got off. AND...he should have accepted the consequences voluntarily. You are all right; it is not fair and not a good look regardless of his rank.

But...the Plastics are 'Special'...

chrisfpv · 04-10-2010, 08:29 PM

Regardless if this is old news or not, this is absolute ********.

I find it disgusting how police book people for being even 5km/h over the limit, hand them fines and add demerit points onto there record, but a police officer is caught doing 40km/h over the speed limit and is let of with a "warning". They know the consequences better than anyone else, yet think it's ok?

40km/h over the speed limit is auto loss of licence for anyone else.

I may be in the minority, but it makes me sick to my stomach that this happens and is one of the reasons I have no respect for the police force.

platinumXR · 04-10-2010, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR

I may be in the minority, but it makes me sick to my stomach that this happens and is one of the reasons I have no respect for the police force.

No, you are not in the minority.

Don't let the actions of a few who are inept and hypocritical taint the good that the vast majority of police actually do.

geckoGT · 04-10-2010, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by platinumXR

Don't let the actions of a few who are inept and hypocritical taint the good that the vast majority of police actually do.

Exactly, I was on a job last night where the police sgt was unprofessional and not a good experience to work with, the vast majority are the complete opposite.

I can't help but wonder what the result of the IA investigation would have been if the officer that committed the offence was a conny and not a supt? I am tipping the conny issuing the warning would have been doing the tap dancing instead.

WMD351 · 04-10-2010, 09:37 PM

Yep the actions of the few will tarnish the efforts of the many.
We're all equal but a classic case of some of us being more equal than others.

BPXR6T · 04-10-2010, 09:59 PM

I was working for one of our police forces a couple of years back and was let off for being waaaay over the limit. It's an unwritten rule not to book your colleagues.

geckoGT · 04-10-2010, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPXR6T

I was working for one of our police forces a couple of years back and was let off for being waaaay over the limit. It's an unwritten rule not to book your colleagues.

Perhaps that unwritten rule, the one that promotes the police being above the law, is a part of the cause for some of the negative public opinion against the police service. Perhaps it is time to re write the rule book.

Why should a cop get away with the same offence that causes a paramedic to lose his licence and end up on office duties (losing out on shift penalties etc, quite a considerable loss of income)?

Personally I am not against cops getting a bit of lattitude but 40 km/h is unreasonable. Lets face it, the public expect the cops to be the shining example of a law abiding citizen in all aspects of their life. The public do have a right to that expectation and the police in their acceptance of police duties acknowledge and accept that expectation.