Is DSG auto or manual?

[FPV GTHO]

Ive heard DSG/DCT transmissions will still roll back on a hill though.

For my mind the gearbox itself is still a manual (no platetary gears, no torque converter) but automised and refined more than youre typical automated manuals such as those BMW and Ferrari developed. I'd call it an auto for licensing sake though.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Ive heard DSG/DCT transmissions will still roll back on a hill though.

I just did a bit of googling, indeed it does. Interesting, most owners say they use the handbrake on hills or a "hill hold" feature. But I guess it's just a characteristic of the gearbox, whereas the degree to which a manual car rolls back would come down to how good (or bad) the driver is.

[nb_351]

it is an automatically shifted manual gearbox... same thing as the auto shift roadrangers in trucks these days, theyre still a manual gearbox, but a computer and shift motors shift gears at precisely the right time...
the brochure for the auto shift tates it will shift better than the most seasoned of drivrs, everytime, and ultimately saving fuel and component wear, or something like that haha
at the end of the day, a conventional manual requires the driver to be in control, hence the word manual, if its not up to the driver its "classed" as an auto, whether the box is an auto intrenally or not is irrelevant

[wrongwaynorris]

Semantics semantics , most manufacturers call them manual or automted manuals or whatever ****y trademark they choose so people who cant drive think they can . A manual is a manual , clutch and the driver selects what gear he wants when he / she wants . Driving ( as in " DRIVING " is becoming a diluted skill ) with all these gimmicky things being released so as I stated earlier people who can not drive ( ie vehicle steerers ) can con themselves into thinking that they can drive .

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Ive heard DSG/DCT transmissions will still roll back on a hill though.

They can for a moment. When you engage the brake (at least on the DSG I had) it's effectively in neutral. You had to give it a moment before hitting the accelerator for it to take off smooth, otherwise it would jerk as if you had dropped the clutch. It'll stop rolling back on a hill pretty quickly when you either let completely off the brake or dab the accelerator and it'll hold on a steep hill.

[JC]

Originally Posted by Barry_v

in south australia you just get a license, none of this auto or manual crap.

I found that surprising, but true! One exception though (for trucks):

Heavy vehicle transmission conditions
If you pass a practical driving test for a licence class HR, HC or MC in a vehicle fitted with an automatic or synchromesh transmission, your driver’s licence will restrict you to driving vehicles of that class fitted with a synchromesh or automatic transmission only.

You will need to pass a practical driving test in an appropriate class of vehicle with non-synchromesh transmission (constant mesh or crash box) to have the condition removed.

[04redxr8]

For me it comes down to you either manually engage the clutch, or the car car automatically does it for you. Ignore the marketing hype.

The simple solution is don't issue licenses to people who can't drive manuals. Problem solved.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Ive heard DSG/DCT transmissions will still roll back on a hill though.

For my mind the gearbox itself is still a manual (no platetary gears, no torque converter) but automised and refined more than youre typical automated manuals such as those BMW and Ferrari developed. I'd call it an auto for licensing sake though.

That is true but most modern DSG's have a hill start feature that will hold the brake for a couple of seconds once you lift your foot off the brake until the accelerator is pushed. Many new manuals have this feature as well.

An auto will roll back on a hill if it is steep enough to overcome the torque convertor. That is why they teach hill starts in both manuals and autos, it has become a bit of a lost art using the handbrake to complete a proper hill start.

As for the license restriction, if you are in one state driving on the license of another state, you still have the restriction of the state in which you hold the license.

To me the identification of an auto or manual box is the presence of a clutch. If it has a clutch it is a manual, if it does not and it has the function to swap gears automatically (which all DSG's do) it is an auto even if it does not have a traditional torque convertor.

Lets face it, there is no difference in the way I can operate my ZF 6 speed compared to a DSG, both have auto and manual modes. To say the DSG is a manual because you can select a gear is wrong, I can select a gear in my ZF 6 speed so does that make it a manual too? I could also select 1st in my 1968 2 speed powerglide in my old HK, does that make it a manual too?

[Phyber]

Originally Posted by block58

The gears don't need to be changed by the driver on those gearboxes. Even in manual mode they don't need to be changed by the driver.

...except if you're in manual mode on the ZF, it won't change up gears, only down to prevent labouring/stalling. You can hit the limiter all day long, or until something snaps anyway

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by DJM83

No clutch = Automatic

Agreed.

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by flappist

e.g. QLD person with auto licence drives DSG interstate, either QLD registered or other state registered. Is this legal?

This question is in a similar vein to P plater from V8 legal state driving V8 in non legal state.

I belive in both cases you have to obey your states rules and regs, regardless of what state you are in.

I know when i was driving in Vic on my WA licenced P's the VicPolice could do squat about my choice of car, from their mouth aswell not just an assumption on my behalf.

[Airmon]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

I just did a bit of googling, indeed it does. Interesting, most owners say they use the handbrake on hills or a "hill hold" feature. But I guess it's just a characteristic of the gearbox, whereas the degree to which a manual car rolls back would come down to how good (or bad) the driver is.

Yeah they can bit a bit annoying, they still seem to slip the clutch a little bit, and it wont engage until you put your foot on the accelerator so it wont creep either. It makes them pretty clunky.

I'll try and find the rego papers and see whether it says Auto or Manual. I'd assume it says Auto.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

I could also select 1st in my 1968 2 speed powerglide in my old HK, does that make it a manual too?

I miss my old HK Monaro, with its tacho on the console.

Thanks, you of unwedded parents.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by fmc351

I miss my old HK Monaro, with its tacho on the console.

Thanks, you of unwedded parents.

You are welcome.

Very OT but a trip down memory lane I can not resist.

I still miss my HK Premier and my my HT Monaro (it was a nice drive way as I had both at the same time. The HK was the beast, started life as a 186 with powerglide and ended life with a 350 and turbo 400 auto (3 speed sounds so lame now but it was a great step up from the 2 speed). The HT was bog standard with the for its time all new aussie 308.

Should never have sold them

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Airmon

Yeah they can bit a bit annoying, they still seem to slip the clutch a little bit, and it wont engage until you put your foot on the accelerator so it wont creep either. It makes them pretty clunky.

I'll try and find the rego papers and see whether it says Auto or Manual. I'd assume it says Auto.

Bentley recently said that they ruled out a dual clutch auto in the upcoming V8 Continental due to them not providing the sort of refinement expected of a Bentley, it makes alot of sense now.

[Mr Hardware]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Bentley recently said that they ruled out a dual clutch auto in the upcoming V8 Continental due to them not providing the sort of refinement expected of a Bentley, it makes alot of sense now.

Yeah. It'll be a long time before a torque converter auto is not the standard transmission for the vast bulk of cars.

[DBourne]

No clutch, no manual.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Yeah. It'll be a long time before a torque converter auto is not the standard transmission for the vast bulk of cars.

The presence of a torque convertor is becoming a lot less frequent and a true auto is no longer the mainstay of auto cars. Some manufacturers have gone heavily into DSG such as VW, Porsche, Audi, Mitsubishi etc. I do however think that we will have quite some time until torque convertors disappear from australian made cars.

Having said that, the characteristics of a DSG even though they have improved from the clunky things they were 5 years ago does not lend itself to some applications. The DSG lends itself well to sport applications where the engine braking of a manual, the direct drive and shift speed are important, i.e more sporting orientated cars. In applications that require refined power and smooth drive, the torque convertor is much more effective and will be for some time to come. The simple fact is on a luxury car the slushiness of a true auto is praised, the directness of a DSG is criticised. Inversely in a sports car the slushiness of an auto is criticised and the directness of a DSG is often praised (for those that can live without a clutch).

Many manufacturers realise this, look at BMW they offer an auto on the more luxury 5 and 7 series sedans yet on the more sporty M6 and M3 they offer a DSG. Mercedes is the same, on the E class it is all autos except the E63 AMG which gets a DSG.

With these notions in mind, it is no surprise that Bentley have deemed the DSG as not suitable, Bentley buyers are not buying sports cars, they want smooth, refined and luxurious power. Just like a buyers of a Mercedes E500 does, the buyer of the E63 AMG wants sports (with a fair whack of luxury).