leading on from my last topic

mickyj · 15-03-2011, 07:18 PM

After some research I seem to be a wee bit confused .Yes those that know me will say thats normal

.
So if i can ask your learned people here.Whats more economical to buy .A vehicle dedicated to LPG or a modern Diesel .
I only ask this as I have been told while LPG is cheaper you fill up twice as often .And Diesel fuel cost more $$$ but lasts longer .
Is this in fact true ?

vztrt · 15-03-2011, 07:27 PM

If you go off new pricing the LPG will be cheaper to run. But it will use 25% more LPG (mind you my boss at work gets low 10's out of his e-gas). So you will be filling up more with the LPG but unless your going to really remote places you'll be fine.

**Polyal** · 15-03-2011, 07:31 PM

The lines will be blurred when fords new system comes out. But I know for a fact my au with svi LPG is cheaper to run than our barina on petrol.

Compared to a modern diesel it would be damn close I think. I average about 13l/100 on LPG. So that's $9.1/100 @ 70c... the barina averages 8/100 @ 1.40...$11.2/100ks.

My father in laws golf tdi gets about 5.6/100 @ 1.40 ....$7.84/100ks

Lilpg would make it closer again...verging on the same if my rough numbers are close.

Edit...I also get the advantage of having a large car instead of a hatch

mickyj · 15-03-2011, 07:43 PM

so confusing lmao
Family wants me to buy a smaller car and i may well get a territory.

vztrt · 15-03-2011, 07:46 PM

What car do you want?

CODSASR · 15-03-2011, 07:53 PM

I am not sure what is better on fuel but I say buy the car you want not what your family want you to have

mickyj · 15-03-2011, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

What car do you want?

Thats a very good question .My last 2 cars have been a 96 falcon duel fuel .And that turned me off LPG(it was an ex hire car so it was high up in the kms) .And I enjoy/love my AU falcon .But i think I'd like to upgrade and the first time in 30 yrs I could buy a car from new.
Just dont think I want a falcon . I like the mondeos first time I saw 1 .Also love the look of the territory and Escapes !!!

Once my $$$ are in order guess I better test drive something and make my mind up!!

still diesel or lpg

**Polyal** · 15-03-2011, 08:02 PM

Ok if it was me I'd get a diesel territory. Space, comfort, good fe for what you get.

If you want a sedan wait until fords new system is out. Forget everything you know about LPG and mixers with the new stuff, it's like VHS vs DVD....blu Ray even.

Brazen · 15-03-2011, 08:11 PM

Repco with its nation-wide delivery fleet of Triton utes use duel fuel LPG rather than diesel as their business plan simply does not work with the extra cost of diesel. All things being equal, If that doesnt tell you that LPG is more economical than nothing will.

NRMA found a converted LPG AWD Territory cheaper to run than a Prius. LPG is a vastly underated fuel source from a cents per km perspective.

Edit found article on Repco from a couple of years back

http://www.lpgautogas.com.au/index.c...unq=134&Type=R

Quote:

Automotive parts supplier Repco has renewed its commitment to running the majority of its vehicle fleet on LPG Autogas after rejecting diesel as a financially viable alternative.
Repco has begun rolling out a fleet of 70 Mitsubishi Triton, single and dual cab utilities, all fitted with a state-of-the-art Impco BRC vapour injection system.

A further 90 Tritons will join the Repco fleet in the second half of the year, adding to more than 600 Autogas-powered utilities and 120 large LPG sedans already in operation.

The balance of the 1100-vehicle fleet is made up of smaller 4-cylinder sedans and hatches.

“When it came time to replace some of our utes we looked closely at various diesel-powered models but the economics were quite shattering,” said Repco’s national fleet manager Mike Moffat.

Mr Moffat based his cost analysis on an average 80-cents-per-litre differential between the price of Autogas and that of diesel. The current price differential is well over one dollar per litre.

“Even allowing for the cost of LPG conversion, over an average 45,000 kilometres per year a diesel-powered equivalent vehicle would cost an extra $2600,” he said.

“I think a lot of fleet managers are starting to realise that up against LPG, diesel is not even in the race,” he said.

The Impco LPG conversion kit for the 3.5-litre V6-engined Tritons is the same factory-endorsed system applied to the Mitsubishi 380 and does not void the factory warranty.

Impco’s general manager John Coggins says the kit uses the latest vapour injection technology from the company’s BRC factory in Italy, providing optimum engine performance and driveability.

“With the Sequent 56 system, running the Tritons on Autogas is virtually indistinguishable from running them on petrol,” Mr Coggins said.

Mike Moffat is enthusiastic about the latest generation of LPG vapour injection technology.

“I wasn’t a fan of the old-style fumigation-style gas systems, but this system is a different world.”

Mr Moffat says Repco uses its Autogas-powered utilities for the delivery of major engine components and other drivetrain parts throughout Australia.

“We simply couldn’t afford to run our delivery vehicles if we weren’t using LPG – it would change the dynamics of our whole business.”

Kryton · 15-03-2011, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Repco with its nation-wide delivery fleet of Triton utes use duel fuel LPG rather than diesel as their business plan simply does not work with the extra cost of diesel. All things being equal, If that doesnt tell you that LPG is more economical than nothing will.

And yet more taxi operators are turning to diesels so your point is invalid.

Brazen · 15-03-2011, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

And yet more taxi operators are turning to diesels so your point is invalid.

I have not seen a single diesel passenger-car based taxi, ever.. Sure it may be happening, but the vast majority remain LPG. You may see some diesels purely out of necessity as the Falcon wagon is gone and the Holden Sportwagon too small for LPG conversion hence some operators are forced to look at alternatives.

xy500 · 15-03-2011, 08:17 PM

what proportion of taxi driver use diesel then?

svo supporter · 15-03-2011, 08:47 PM

Why not get a diesel, and it converted to gas? It gives you the best of both worlds.

My work van is a LWB Fiat turbo diesel (diesel only) and I get between 9.9 and 10.2 L per 100K. Does that help?

Kryton · 15-03-2011, 09:07 PM

Apart from the 2 or 3 LPG's here, they are all diesels.

vztrt · 15-03-2011, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

And yet more taxi operators are turning to diesels so your point is invalid.

That will depend on where you live. Melbourne the major majority is LPG. It seemed the same out in Sydney. But when LPG is 60 odd c/l and diesel is now $1.40 I can't see diesel being taken up here in Melb.

GT-E · 15-03-2011, 11:50 PM

LPG has too many negatives, as it is not taxed as high as Petrol, but it will be eventually.
Diesel costs about the same a PULP98 but gets far better fuel economy.
The new Diesel Tezza is going to run 8lt/100km which I think would be far cheaper to run than a LPG I6 Tezza.
I would think you will be better overall with the Diesel, that and the LPG tanks are big time bombs under your car, take up a lot of room and do not give you the same range as a Diesel. I personally would not have a LPG car after I watched a taxi blow up in the Sydney CBD.

Bushbasher · 16-03-2011, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT-E

the LPG tanks are big time bombs under your car

Hmmm, and there's never been a poorly maintained petrol or diesel powered car that's ever spontaniously burst into flames either

Sorry but that was a stupid and inflammatory statement. (no pun intended)

**Polyal** · 16-03-2011, 11:06 AM

Yeah I have never seen a diesel taxi in VIC..just wont happen in a hurry.

In TAS there where a couple, but fuel costs are crazy down there and you could count on one hand the amount of LPG stations around Hobart.

mik · 16-03-2011, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT-E

LPG has too many negatives, as it is not taxed as high as Petrol, but it will be eventually.
Diesel costs about the same a PULP98 but gets far better fuel economy.
The new Diesel Tezza is going to run 8lt/100km which I think would be far cheaper to run than a LPG I6 Tezza.
I would think you will be better overall with the Diesel, that and the LPG tanks are big time bombs under your car, take up a lot of room and do not give you the same range as a Diesel. I personally would not have a LPG car after I watched a taxi blow up in the Sydney CBD.

i have had 3 lpg vehicles without a problem, and i`d bet a lot more people have died from ruptured petrol tanks than lpg.

sgt_doofey · 16-03-2011, 02:19 PM

Currently own a 4.0L I6 Falcon (1997 EL) on LPG and a 2006 2.0L HDi Peugeot 307.
On a cents per kilometre cost, they are pretty much on par with each other, with LPG just a bee's whisker in front of diesel.
Having said that, with the excise on LPG starting next year, that equation may change.

mickyj · 17-03-2011, 06:36 PM

thanks again guys

SSV Redline · 21-03-2011, 02:27 PM

Hey MJ, I own a 4X4 Nissan Navara Turbo Diesel dual cab which tows 3 tonne and I was getting 7-8's on the highway and 10-12's around town. My brother in law owns a 2X4 LPG Toyota Hilux and he said the torgue down low (useful for towing) is crap. So if you are towing, you might want to consider Diesel, especially a turbo Diesel.

302 XC · 21-03-2011, 06:12 PM

Diesel taxis ???
Isnt that all the taxis in london nowadays ???
Diesel small cars are everywhere O/S
Australia we are behind the times in this avenue ???

Depends on what you want from said vehicle ???
Then u have the text book fuel figures
Vs
Real world fuel figures

Personally id rather a car im comfortable with and enjoy
Rather than 1 i hate to drive and hate to look at
For the sake of a coupla Ls per 100Ks
Get what does your needs

LPG is expected to rise rapidly soon
And the LPG rebate will be removed
So on par with petrol and diesel
Then add what 3K for LPG conversion
Id go a turbo diesel all day

Mr Hardware · 21-03-2011, 06:23 PM

302
Xc
there's a
reason why diesel
is cheaper
overseas

it is taxed less
than here

vztrt · 21-03-2011, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 302 XC

LPG is expected to rise rapidly soon
And the LPG rebate will be removed
So on par with petrol and diesel

12.5 c in 5 years is not what I'd call rapid.

irish2 · 21-03-2011, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT-E

LPG has too many negatives, as it is not taxed as high as Petrol, but it will be eventually.
Diesel costs about the same a PULP98 but gets far better fuel economy.
The new Diesel Tezza is going to run 8lt/100km which I think would be far cheaper to run than a LPG I6 Tezza.
I would think you will be better overall with the Diesel, that and the LPG tanks are big time bombs under your car, take up a lot of room and do not give you the same range as a Diesel. I personally would not have a LPG car after I watched a taxi blow up in the Sydney CBD.

Gas fitter here. LPG is actually a very hard gas to ignite. Its' upper limit of flammability is 8% in atmosphere and the lower limit is 2%. It will only explode at close to the 2% range, and will slow burn from 4% to 8%. Any higher than 8% and nothing will happen at all.

What you witnessed with the taxi is what is called a BLEVE, Boiling liquid expanding vapour explosion. A fire had to be present near the tank for some time to cause this. It is no different to a hot water system 'exploding' when the pressure relief valve is plugged.

sgt_doofey · 21-03-2011, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish2

What you witnessed with the taxi is what is called a BLEVE, Boiling liquid expanding vapour explosion. A fire had to be present near the tank for some time to cause this. It is no different to a hot water system 'exploding' when the pressure relief valve is plugged.

Or possibly a poorly maintained gas system and a fire that started under the bonnet?

naddis01 · 21-03-2011, 10:57 PM

We have a Mazda 6 diesel and it averages 6L/100km at $1.50/L.
We also have a Egas BF2 RTV and I will be kind and say it averages 18L/100km (generally it uses more than that) at $0.75/L.

I know which I would have economy wise.

irish2 · 22-03-2011, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgt_doofey

Or possibly a poorly maintained gas system and a fire that started under the bonnet?

The fire can start anywhere but for the tank to explode it needs to be exposed to direct heat for some time before it will let go. The fire itself can not "flash back" into the tank.