Ford targets Toyota with Aussie wagon - T6 SUV

[phillyc]

Go Auto article

Ford targets Toyota with Aussie wagon

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25787D00068030

Locally developed SUV wagon expected to take on Toyota’s Prado and Fortuner globally
25 April 2011
By BYRON MATHIOUDAKIS in NEW YORK
FORD has ambitions of tackling one of Toyota’s core segments with a new Australian-developed five-door wagon based on the upcoming T6 Ranger one-tonne utility.

This vehicle will be a mid-sized body-on-frame SUV that will specifically target Toyota’s HiLux-based Fortuner – which is built and sold in various developing markets – as well as the more sophisticated and familiar LandCruiser Prado.

As reported exclusively by GoAuto nine months ago, it will be developed by the growing engineering group at Ford Australia’s Broadmeadows headquarters, where the company recently employed its 1000th engineer.

Ford’s global head of product development, Derrick Kuzak, confirmed to GoAuto at the New York motor show that Ford intended to tackle Toyota’s huge share of the “lucrative” market held by Fortuner and Prado in Australia and throughout the Asia-Pacific and Middle East regions.

Mr Kuzak said the stranglehold Toyota has with these vehicles in the Asian region especially is an opportunity too good for Ford to ignore.

“If you look at the share of the Fortuner and the Prado – certainly in Australia, but also all over the Pacific and into the Middle East – it is really a remarkable kind of share that these two vehicles have … in some markets it is over 25 per cent,” Mr Kuzak told us.

“It is a very lucrative market and they own it – at this point.”

Expected to be offered in a number of seating, drivetrain and technology specifications according to the markets it is sold in, the new wagon will likely be built mainly in Thailand, with other manufacturing locations also likely.

The rugged SUV is expected to follow in the footsteps of the T6 Ranger – which was designed and engineered at Broadmeadows – as one of the most widely marketed Ford vehicles in existence today.

It would join a growing number of forthcoming ladder-frame chassis-derived SUVs based on General Motors’ 2012 Colorado, the related Isuzu’s next-generation D-Max and possibly even Volkswagen’s Amarok.

In addition to the Toyota twosome, they will battle the Nissan Pathfinder, Ssangyong Rexton, Mitsubishi Challenger and Great Wall V250.

Mr Kuzak said the T6 Ranger’s development ‘home room’ in Australia would be expected to deliver further derivations as the need arises globally.

“The Australian team do compact pick-ups, and any other vehicles that may come from that platform for the entire globe,” he said.

“If you look at our product strategy today, you see, for example, a platform that underpins the (US market large car) Taurus but also a number of other vehicles in the North American market – the Flex (crossover wagon), (Lincoln’s) MKS (sedan) and MKT (crossover) and Explorer (SUV).

“So we have demonstrated an ability to take a platform and develop a wide range – from sedans to utilities – off that platform.

“At Detroit (auto show in January) we emphasised the Focus platform and we are going to have 10 vehicles coming off that platform over the next two years.

“So that ability to upfront have a platform and have a view of what type of top hats may come off that platform, and have that underpinning capability to deliver fully differentiated in terms of their design but also of their functionality, is something that we know how to do.”

Melbourne is one of four engineering centres within Ford, the others being in Germany, Britain and the United States.

Kick Toyota in the balls Ford!

The Global T6 will redefine refinement and capability in that segment, the T6 SUV could do equally as well.

FoA will get further kudos for the quality of development, and potentially another 500-1000 sales a month for T6 SUV when released. In the process, a fair chunk could be conquests too, resulting in increased market share.

[Road_Warrior]

I'm actually quite interested in the T6 SUV. I wonder what sort of back axle it will have.

It would be great to see FoA have a three-tier SUV lineup to take on Toyota and Mitsubishi. Kuga, Territory and T6. Maybe even throw the Edge in there if you want a car to butt heads with the RAV4.

[SteveJH]

Would a T6 based SUV have the NVH levels and interior specifications to match a Prado (haven't been in the current gen prado)?

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I'm actually quite interested in the T6 SUV. I wonder what sort of back axle it will have.

Well between Prado, Pathfinder, Challenger, Pajero etc there are probably 3,000/mth that want something like the T6 SUV will have on offer. In many respects T6 SUV should be a segment leader too.

That is an okay size segment with only a few players! Ford can come and grab a nice share

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

It would be great to see FoA have a three-tier SUV lineup to take on Toyota and Mitsubishi. Kuga, Territory and T6. Maybe even throw the Edge in there if you want a car to butt heads with the RAV4.

They have to 3 tier really. If they want to increase market share profitably. You can discount heavily to gain share with 2 models, but get it more organically and profitably with 3 models.

The next gen Kuga / Escape / Vertrak or whatever name it ends up with is only 1-2 years away. That is another segment where 500-1,000/mth sales can be achieved.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

Would a T6 based SUV have the NVH levels and interior specifications to match a Prado (haven't been in the current gen prado)?

Prado are nothing special when it comes to refinement. T6 Ranger looks to have plenty of tech. That will only likely improve when the T6 SUV is launched.

PS Prado is the only car to roll during Wheels COTY testing. Poor stability control / ESP systems didn't catch it during a deliberate ESP/DSC slide test.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by phillyc

PS Prado is the only car to roll during Wheels COTY testing. Poor stability control / ESP systems didn't catch it during a deliberate ESP/DSC slide test.

Wasn't it the Kluger?

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by phillyc

....
PS Prado is the only car to roll during Wheels COTY testing. Poor stability control / ESP systems didn't catch it during a deliberate ESP/DSC slide test.

No, that was a Kluger (Highlander), not a Prado but still a Toyota though

Having just returned from a few weeks in NZ where we had a Highlander (Kluger in Aus) as a hire car I can't say I'm surprised, it was a horrid thing to drive compared to my Tezza.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Wasn't it the Kluger?

Totally right! Kluger rolled, not the Prado.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Raptor

No, that was a Kluger (Highlander), not a Prado but still a Toyota though

Having just returned from a few weeks in NZ where we had a Highlander (Kluger in Aus) as a hire car I can't say I'm surprised, it was a horrid thing to drive compared to my Tezza.

Anyway, I've pushed the thread off topic.

On topic. Ford rightly see a nice chunk of sales from this market segment globally. Which is why I am glad to see Ford HQ realise this fact.

It would be a nice niche for Ford Australia too. Advertise it as the designed in Australia SUV. Alongside the designed in Australia T6.

Heck GMHolden sprout the Aussie engine in Captiva. Less than half of Captiva are petrol, and even that is split between I4 made in Korea and the V6 assembled in Victoria. But that Korean Captiva SUV is made to sound Australian, with an Australian engine. So, maybe $3,000 engine per 1 in 4 sales.

The Ford T6 & T6 SUV will actually have been designed here in Australia from the ground up. Bringing $1 Billion in export earnings or more alone.

[Bossxr8]

Interesting to see wether they run the leaf springs or a new IRS. The Mitsu Challenger runs the Tritons leafs, while the Pathfinder ditched the Navaras leafs for coils.

Surely it would need IRS?

[FPV GTHO]

Theres another option, keep the SRA but put it on coils.

[aquahead2001]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Interesting to see wether they run the leaf springs or a new IRS. The Mitsu Challenger runs the Tritons leafs, while the Pathfinder ditched the Navaras leafs for coils.

Surely it would need IRS?

Correction, the current model Challenger has a 3 link coil sprung rigid axle at the rear. Refer http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com.au/...specifications

[Poetic Justice]

I would expect a T6 SUV to be more similar to Mitsu Challenger and Nissan Pathfinder, than compared to a Prado.

The reason they say Fortuna is also because it's similar in being based off the Hilux.

I also heard somewhere that TMCA are looking into bringing the Fortuna to the Aus market.

[Brazen]

I would be very suprised if this new T6 wagon isnt best in class, Ford Australia now how to engineer ride and handling.

[jpd80]

Mr Kuzak said the stranglehold Toyota has with these vehicles in the Asian region especially is an opportunity too good for Ford to ignore.

“If you look at the share of the Fortuner and the Prado – certainly in Australia, but also all over the Pacific and into the Middle East – it is really a remarkable kind of share that these two vehicles have … in some markets it is over 25 per cent,” Mr Kuzak told us.

“It is a very lucrative market and they own it – at this point.”

Let's hope Ford keeps up this hungry attitude for other vehicles too.

Shame F150/Expedition don't come with a diesel (4.4), they could give Landcruiser a real hurry up...

[Road_Warrior]

Hmm...cab chassis F150 with either a 4.0 inline twin cam 6, a 5.0 all alloy V8 or 4.4 TDCi V8...

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Let's hope Ford keeps up this hungry attitude for other vehicles too.

Yes, lets hope Ford keep up the hungry attitude and phoenix like rise in solid profitability.

Fiesta was the first step in One Ford world vehicles. Focus the newest and T6 Ranger about to be the next. These segments are and were crucial first steps.

I think as Ford continue to make serious money and their huge R & D over the last few years starts to pay even more dividends they will look for more opportunities to leverage skills, platforms, knowledge and facilities. Lets see what comes next!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by phillyc

Yes, lets hope Ford keep up the hungry attitude and phoenix like rise in solid profitability.

Fiesta was the first step in One Ford world vehicles. Focus the newest and T6 Ranger about to be the next. These segments are and were crucial first steps.

I think as Ford continue to make serious money and their huge R & D over the last few years starts to pay even more dividends they will look for more opportunities to leverage skills, platforms, knowledge and facilities. Lets see what comes next!

Next Escape/Kuga
Next Ecosport (based on Fiesta)

These two vehicles could change Ford's image by opening up possibilities for Ford
in and against the main stream small SUVs, could become an interesting tussle...
Another two worth thinking about would be C-max and Transit Connect...

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Next Escape/Kuga
Next Ecosport (based on Fiesta)

These two vehicles could change Ford's image by opening up possibilities for Ford in and against the main stream small SUVs, could become an interesting tussle...
Another two worth thinking about would be C-max and Transit Connect...

Does FoA really need the Ecosport though? The B-SUV segment isnt exactly setting Australia on fire.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Does FoA really need the Ecosport though? The B-SUV segment isnt exactly setting Australia on fire.

Maybe not Ecosport as such, it might be more like a B-Max
and yes B cars are growing but not as quickly as small cars..

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Next Escape/Kuga
Next Ecosport (based on Fiesta)

These two vehicles could change Ford's image by opening up possibilities for Ford in and against the main stream small SUVs, could become an interesting tussle...
Another two worth thinking about would be C-max and Transit Connect...

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Does FoA really need the Ecosport though? The B-SUV segment isnt exactly setting Australia on fire.

Originally Posted by jpd80

Maybe not Ecosport as such, it might be more like a B-Max
and yes B cars are growing but not as quickly as small cars..

I think New Kuga / Escape / Vertrek could be a real winner. ie 750 sales / month.



I also think B-Max is an interesting option, but no idea of the potential.
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25784600084BE6


What about C-Max - Focus underpinnings - next size up. Better potential.

[Road_Warrior]

I think bringing the Kuga here finally will repay Ford in spades. It's a funky looking, well equipped car and will sell well.

As for the Ecosport...I dunno. As I said, the B-SUV segment isn't really doing a lot - granted, there aren't many competitors either, but save for the Mitsubishi ASX and Hyundai I35? that's all there is in that end of the segment and I hardly see any on the road - most of the ones I see are in dealer lots and have been stuck there for a while.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by phillyc

Totally right! Kluger rolled, not the Prado.

Don't worry phill you weren't that far off! The prado has a long list of evidence to its name of dodgy handling...even versus other sep. chassis off roaders its pretty much dead last. It had horrid results in a wheels active safety program test a few years back and i've driven one for a few kays once and that was bad enough. I think the lexus version (not sold here) had a safety recall in the states due to slow or incorrect activation of the stability control system (sound familiar?). Because it came when toyota was in the midst of a huge number of issues lexus atcually issued a total sales ban on it till it was fixed.

Back on topic, it is an interesting segment this. In theory it is not all that big (though i suppose if you go after fleet sales too ala prado it could be significant) but it is a solid segment with continual demand. The T6 platform is clearly designed for the job from scratch and given it is going to be class leader by all acounts it aint a bad place to start. Ford Europe did the same thing with the Ford Kuga based off Focus platform and that was a huge hit with the critics.

Mitsu has got some ok reviews (but crap sales) for the new challenger so if you build a good light ute you can make a good suv off that. How the rear end is done i'm not sure but you'd think to take on prado you woudl need a coil sprung live rear. Challenger has that too. Wouldn't be that hard if the T6 was designed to have it from the start.

Great to see Ford investing so much in R & D with new platforms, engines etc. Doubly good with Ford Aus being so critical to this particular example too.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Let's hope Ford keeps up this hungry attitude for other vehicles too.

Shame F150/Expedition don't come with a diesel (4.4), they could give Landcruiser a real hurry up...

Agreed. The Expedition comfortably seats 8 adults too. 3rd row in a LC is nothing more than kiddy seats. I think it will be getting the EcoBoost V6 soon, which will be a start. 4.4TD would be great to make it a global player.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by aquahead2001

Correction, the current model Challenger has a 3 link coil sprung rigid axle at the rear. Refer http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com.au/...specifications

I was unaware the current model was on coils, but I know for sure the previous Challenger was leaf sprung.

[aquahead2001]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I was unaware the current model was on coils, but I know for sure the previous Challenger was leaf sprung.

Correct but the previous model was a complete dog....

There was a review of the new model in Top Gear AU last year, not much has changed if that review was anything to go by.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Let's hope Ford keeps up this hungry attitude for other vehicles too.

Shame F150/Expedition don't come with a diesel (4.4), they could give Landcruiser a real hurry up...

Ahh... the Expedition. That is one big ship. Not sure how well it would sell here, as it looks big and tough, and fuel guzzily.

But it is an AWD/RWD platform with IRS. Something else we have down-under that could become one.

[Road_Warrior]

So is it a given that this car will have the same engines as the Ranger, or maybe something a bit "better" (like say the Duratec 35?)

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

So is it a given that this car will have the same engines as the Ranger, or maybe something a bit "better" (like say the Duratec 35?)

Interesting point. I would expect a petrol 6 of some kind.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by phillyc

Interesting point. I would expect a petrol 6 of some kind.

How awesome would it be if the I6 became the standard six for the APA region?