Car-based Ambulances

Brazen · 05-06-2011, 11:01 AM

Remember the days when vans were slow, uncomfortable, handled and braked poorly? These were some of the last vehicles in the world that you wanted to use for high-speed life-or-death emergencies.

Ambulance organisations instead used passenger vehicles converted (at considerable cost) into ambulances... Even today (mostly in Europe) with the big advancements in vans, many ambulance organisations still use modified passenger vehicles as ambulances.

Some pics from around the world.

My favourite: Citreon Tissier Ambulances

Some pics from Australia, these were popular in the country areas (some based on utes)

Jim Goose · 05-06-2011, 11:11 AM

If you do a search on eBay for Ambulances youll see some of these old sedan based ambos for sale.... some have been there for a while now.
The coachwork alone must cost a fortune, would be quicker to just use a minivan or plonk a big box on the back of an F series.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Ford-Falc...item1c1c28b0a0

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Holden-HQ...item35b285cd6e

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2000-Hold...item5ae0d05e23

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EX-AMBULA...item3cb8917533

I seriously considered getting an early F series as a tow vehicle.... but dammit got too many cars now as it is...

geckoGT · 05-06-2011, 11:17 AM

And all the Sedan/Ute variants used in Australia in the last 2 decades have been vastly inferior to the current vans from a user perspective when compared to the F series/GMC or van (such as the new sprinter) variants for a number of reasons. Normally they are too small to carry the required equipment, the patient and more than 1 attendant. They are also often under powered, under braked and the suspension can not take the loads required and still handle with the required standard at speed.

Having worked in the Commodore LWB utility variety pictured I can tell you the power was woeful, the handling was more like a boat and they did not stop when you needed them too, we hated them. They were bought into service based almost purely on the fact that they cost half as much as a F series but their use was so limited they were not used as primary response units regularly and were most commonly used solely for inter hospital transfers. The Falcon variants were no better and in fact the brakes on the X series models were so bad they used to have to put warning labels on the windscreen warning the operator of how bad they were.

Quite a lot of your pics there are very old and of machines no longer in use as primary response vehicles, many are used in airports and industrial areas or as interhospital transfer vehicles.

I would definitely take the Mercedes Sprinter 319 over any of those, it is a vastly superior vehicle.

**DJR-351** · 05-06-2011, 11:19 AM

Let's not forget what is arguably the most famous....

Cadillac Ambulance

Ghostbusters anyone....

Brazen · 05-06-2011, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Quite a lot of your pics there are very old and of machines no longer in use as primary response vehicles, many are used in airports and industrial areas or as interhospital transfer vehicles.

Yeah certainly vans have taken over. Whats curious though is that even today in places like Sweden, Norway, Denmark etc they still use the passenger car based ambulances as first response units. They seem to have a mix of vans/cars based ambulances and Im not sure why they have both. Perhaps vans for the city, cars for the rural areas?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCIp1GoS_uM&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d-T8...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0MRy...eature=related

geckoGT · 05-06-2011, 11:54 AM

That Merc is about 10 years old, we were still using Commodores in the roles I previously said at that time.

Some individual makes such as the Mercs may lend themselves well to ambulance use but they still have the severe limitation of a lack of size. Even our present Mercedes 319 can get very cosy inside with an active resus on board and 3 paramedics working on them, a really good trauma is worse.

Have a look around at US and UK vehicles, they make our Mercs look small.

Pictures tell a lot but I think the opinion from the people who have to operate them (not the bean counters that select them) would tell more about their effectiveness in the role. The australian experience is they are woeful and hence we do not have them anymore. They were so bad here that some of the commodore model clocked up considerably less mileage than the F trucks in double the amount of time because everyone used to refuse to use them. The ride was so bad (soft and wallowy) that it used to make the attendant in the back sick with the swaying around. I am having nightmares thinking about them.

Have a look on this page, not many are based on a sedan or ute platform.
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=am...w=1600&bih=797

prydey · 05-06-2011, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

are they fg xr6 17's!

also, geckogt will confirm, but here in sa, and probably in most states, the service now use a fast response vehicle (forrester or territory etc) to reduce the wait time in serious cases.

much better to do it this way than try to create a vehicle that does both.

geckoGT · 05-06-2011, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

are they fg xr6 17's!

also, geckogt will confirm, but here in sa, and probably in most states, the service now use a fast response vehicle (forrester or territory etc) to reduce the wait time in serious cases.

much better to do it this way than try to create a vehicle that does both.

Kind of, the Forresters are often either station officer vehicles (which do primary response when they are the closest unit) or specialist skills units (such as doctor or intensive care paramedic).

Often they are just additional resources that can be placed with a single operator in areas of expected high workload (eg night life locations on weekends) to provide initial response.

Contrary to popular belief they really do not get to a case any faster than a Mercedes transport unit as they often have more trouble getting through traffic (they are not as easily seen) and the officer has to drive and navigate (we have one driving and one navigating). We often beat a responding officer in a sedan to a case, even if we are further away.

prydey · 05-06-2011, 01:16 PM

this is going off topic, but is there any effort in getting some sort of device that transmits sirens onto car radios, like emergency messages in tunnels etc? the sirens seem very directional, and in todays modern cars, it can be very hard to hear them until they are right on you.

having said that, if you drive using your mirrors how you should, and have a degree of awareness, then generally you see them before you hear them, but to me the sirens just don't seem as effective as they once were.

geckoGT · 05-06-2011, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

this is going off topic, but is there any effort in getting some sort of device that transmits sirens onto car radios, like emergency messages in tunnels etc? the sirens seem very directional, and in todays modern cars, it can be very hard to hear them until they are right on you.

having said that, if you drive using your mirrors how you should, and have a degree of awareness, then generally you see them before you hear them, but to me the sirens just don't seem as effective as they once were.

Not to my knowledge.

If people just used their mirrors as they were taught and turned their stereo down, there would be no need for such a device. Such a device would be a pain, how do you determine the range required for the intrusion? 100m would be adequate in city streets but no where near enough in country areas. 500m would be ok on the highway but people living in houses in city areas would not be able to listen to a radio in their house as sirens would constantly override it.

**DJR-351** · 05-06-2011, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

....houses in city areas would not be able to listen to a radio in their house as sirens would constantly override it.

and no doubt a few rocks and whatever getting tossed at ambulances going through suburbia, especially if theres a few footy barbecues going on....

(jokes)

Brazen · 05-06-2011, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

this is going off topic, but is there any effort in getting some sort of device that transmits sirens onto car radios, like emergency messages in tunnels etc? the sirens seem very directional, and in todays modern cars, it can be very hard to hear them until they are right on you.

having said that, if you drive using your mirrors how you should, and have a degree of awareness, then generally you see them before you hear them, but to me the sirens just don't seem as effective as they once were.

What about the Rumbler siren? You can feel it as well as hear it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdCmx...eature=related

Jim Goose · 05-06-2011, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Not to my knowledge.

If people just used their mirrors as they were taught and turned their stereo down, there would be no need for such a device. Such a device would be a pain, how do you determine the range required for the intrusion? 100m would be adequate in city streets but no where near enough in country areas. 500m would be ok on the highway but people living in houses in city areas would not be able to listen to a radio in their house as sirens would constantly override it.

Trouble is people these days have a phone, ipod jammed in the ear, doof doof music at full volume, GPS warnings etc... that the "look out" people maintained is now gone. Plus the fact that sound proofing in cars these days is so good and that sirens are "less" louder you can barely hear an ambulance until its about 20m away.

The other thing i found was that some of the older ambulances have got just all "strobes" which are kinda spaced out all over the place. While strobes (the LED type) dont draw as much current as the old rotating beacons, in certain lighting conditions stobes are very visible at all.
I notice a lot of the newer Mercedes vans now have light bars again which are a hell of a lot more visible as the lights are concentrated in one area.

geckoGT · 05-06-2011, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

What about the Rumbler siren? You can feel it as well as hear it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdCmx...eature=related

My concern is that may cause issues with the hearing of the operators of the vehicles. Don't forget we are exposed to the sound waves as well, only a lot more frequently.

geckoGT · 05-06-2011, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJR-351

and no doubt a few rocks and whatever getting tossed at ambulances going through suburbia, especially if theres a few footy barbecues going on....

(jokes)

I know you are joking but there is probably an element of truth in that statement.

Jimmyd · 05-06-2011, 03:05 PM

2011G6E · 05-06-2011, 09:05 PM

I'll just cut and paste a bit from a reply I put on another thread about a "car based ambulance" in Bundy back in the early 1980's...it was used before they had an aerial ambulance service to transport people to Brisbane for treatment as well as being an ordinary ambulance.

Quote:

It was a HZ Premier-based (well it had Premier front sheet metal with twin headlights) ambulance with a low back (not as high as a normal ambulance roof, more like a normal panel van, if indeed it wasn't just a normal panel van body as there wasn't much head room). It had special suspension, four wheel disk brakes, the interior in front had two Monaro bucket seats and center console with a t-bar shift (unlike all the others with column shift auto), and the full instrument sports dash (the one with round instruments in a moulding that looked like square pods). It was an "end of the line" model with the Commodore-type combination indicator switch.
The good bit now. Under the hood was a worked...and I mean worked...308 with extractors and four barrel Holley and a lot of internal work like cam and forged stuff. It was backed by a Turbo 350 auto with a shift kit.
The damn thing had a rumpety-rump worked V8 exhaust, and went like the proverbial off a shiny shovel. Twice I personally saw the speedo go past 200kph and sit there with ease, floating along in comfort, when transporting an urgent case to hospital from outside town. Awesome machine...

...those were the days...no bumbling (but admittedly more roomy) diesel Mercedes vans back then...an ambulance had to have grunt and top speed, and usually lots of it.

Gobes32 · 05-06-2011, 09:38 PM

Directed to GeckoGT, I am curious, what is the most favoured ambulance of all time to work with?

geckoGT · 05-06-2011, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Directed to GeckoGT, I am curious, what is the most favoured ambulance of all time to work with?

My personal favourite is now the Mercedes Sprinter 319 that we have now, very comfortable, drives more like a car than a bus, has some grunt with the larger turbo V6 diesel and is just a superior vehicle in every way shape and form.

Previous to this I was a bit split. The Ford F350 powerstroke was quicker with more grunt, more road presence (people got out of the way of the chrome grille), had more room inside and cornered better. Its competitor at the time was the Mercedes Sprinter (316 I think, the old shape), this was gutless and less sure in corners but it certainly had better brakes (the ford ones were woeful), more comfortable in the back, better aircon (it worked), better turning circle, easier to move down narrow streets and at least you could move and talk from front to rear (needed when supervising a student).

I know most of the people that I work with feel the same way.

aussie muscle · 06-06-2011, 04:27 PM

the ambulance based here is a VW transporter.

geckoGT · 06-06-2011, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

the ambulance based here is a VW transporter.

I have worked in VW transporters before, not bad to drive and comfortable suspension with decent handling but front wheel drive can make them difficult on steep inclines when loaded. Also they are too small inside. I know NSW use them but mostly in country areas and they do not seem to be as popular with the crews as the Mercedes.

gcg2503 · 06-06-2011, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

this is going off topic, but is there any effort in getting some sort of device that transmits sirens onto car radios, like emergency messages in tunnels etc? the sirens seem very directional, and in todays modern cars, it can be very hard to hear them until they are right on you.

having said that, if you drive using your mirrors how you should, and have a degree of awareness, then generally you see them before you hear them, but to me the sirens just don't seem as effective as they once were.

Actually there is....

One of my best mates has been working on this for the last 6 years

They have trialled it here with Vic Police at Phillip Island 6 weeks ago and it is looking very promising

Works on the same technology that as what is used here in the Burnley tunnel

Vicroads, Vic Police are very interested. Will probably go to Emergency services as well. Problem with australia is that you have to deal with each state piece meal

They are also in talks with the UAE regarding this technology

gcg2503 · 06-06-2011, 06:30 PM

Here is my favourite

http://www.flickr.com/photos/50415738@N04/5340722031/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/50415738@N04/5341334578/

Franco Cozzo · 06-06-2011, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gcg2503

Works on the same technology that as what is used here in the Burnley tunnel

Does anyone actually listen to radio any more? All that happens on Gold 104.3 is some people called "Grubby and Deedee" making crappy jokes and talking, they play 3 or 4 songs in an hour amongst all the talking they do and the ads.

CD player wins every time for me.

Riksta · 07-06-2011, 12:06 AM

If I ever have to go to hospital in one, and they try to put me in anything other than one of these:

Then I think I'll take the option of dying on the pavement.

At least in one of them, I know if Grandma Mavis is holding up the traffic, they can go straight over her and call another one to pick her up later.

2011G6E · 07-06-2011, 01:01 AM

People not seeing the lights and sirens?

Hell, we used to sit behind them in a massive red fire engine at night, the surrounding area lit up flashing red from the lights, massive sirens and horns going, including two big bright red lights in the center of the grille where they would shine straight into the car in front, and Mr Numptie would just toddle along and not even notice us...

fat4D · 07-06-2011, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

are they fg xr6 17's!

also, geckogt will confirm, but here in sa, and probably in most states, the service now use a fast response vehicle (forrester or territory etc) to reduce the wait time in serious cases.

much better to do it this way than try to create a vehicle that does both.

wonder if they actually are the same as the fg wheels? Look good on that car.