The push to give local government recognition in the Constitution

[Road_Warrior]

Some forum members asked me a while back to keep them informed of updates in this area. Given the fact that this proposal has far reaching ramifications nationally, I thought it would be appropriate to post it here in an open forum.

First, the 'for' argument:

http://www.councilreferendum.com.au/

So why do we need constitutional reform?

Including local government in the constitution is about recognising its role in Australia’s system of government and, more practically, about securing funding sources to deliver the services communities need.

Put simply, local government is an essential part of Australia’s system of government. Its contribution to our national wellbeing can be measured in economic and social terms, and more intangibly by the way it enhances our democratic way of life. It should be recognised in our national Constitution, alongside state, territory and Commonwealth governments.

In order to carry out its responsibilities, local government relies on a range of funding sources, including its own revenue measures, as well as grants from state and territory governments, and the Commonwealth. In 2009, a High Court decision (the Pape case) put into serious doubt the Federal Government’s ability to directly fund local government projects. ALGA believes that a constitutional referendum empowering the Commonwealth to directly fund local government, would put beyond doubt its ability to fund vital local projects.

Our campaign for reform will include local government stakeholders, as well as the community. We hope you’ll join us in this important campaign for constitutional reform.

The 'against' argument:

http://urbantaskforce.com.au/viewmedia.php?id=552

The Federal Government shouldn’t be advancing plans to “recognise” local councils in the Australian Constitution while those same councils are busily contributing to the nation’s housing undersupply, according to the Urban Taskforce.

The Federal Government today appointed the members of the independent expert panel that will “progress” the recognition of local government in the Australian Constitution. The Government says it will hold a national referendum on the “recognition” of local government in the Australian Constitution during the term of the current government or at the next Federal election.

The Urban Taskforce’s chief executive, Aaron Gadiel, said that the Federal Government should address the problems created by local government, before it commences an arcane discussion about their recognition in the Constitution.

“This issue shouldn’t be a priority right now,” Mr Gadiel said.

“Australia’s housing shortfall is at 200,000 homes, with a projection for it to grow to 308,000 by 2014.

“Just 42 per cent of homes sold Australia-wide are affordable to moderate-income households.”

According to a recent Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), report Australia’s new housing supply does not respond to price signals in the same way that it does in other countries of a similar population density.

“For example, the United States’ housing supply is four times more responsive to price signals than its Australian equivalent,” Mr Gadiel said.

“Sweden, Denmark, Canada, Japan and Finland also all enjoy new home supply that is at least twice as responsive to changes in home prices, than Australia.”

Mr Gadiel said that local councils have played a major role in blocking new housing supply, and making housing less accessible to a wide range of ordinary Australians.

“Local councils in Australia deliver less services, are smaller, and more parochial than local government authorities in other parts of the developed world,” Mr Gadiel said.

“Many have been captured by not-in-my-backyard groups, and are acting against the interests of the wider community. “Local councils should earn their place in the Australian Constitution.

“Entrenching the existing system of local government by constitutional amendment will permanently lock-in our current housing supply problems.

“The Federal Government should focus on resolving the more substantial issues, before local government is rewarded in this way.”

The Urban Taskforce is a property development industry group, representing Australia’s most prominent property developers and equity financiers.

The referendum has yet to be announced, but it appears the Federal Government is committed to it and an 18 person committee has been formed to explore the options. This is at the behest of the Greens and two Independent MP's.

I will update this thread at a later date (in a week, month whatever) when the referendum is announced.

[charles_wif_xf]

There are too many levels of govco as it is, do we really need to legitimise their existence (as in local government)???

[flappist]

Just to give a heads up.

This is a subject that is important to many Australians BUT should it get skewed into a party political debate or a slanging match it will be locked and those who caused it will have the errors of their ways explained to them.

[GhiaEB]

Originally Posted by charles_wif_xf

There are too many levels of govco as it is, do we really need to legitimise their existence (as in local government)???

I agree 3 tiers of government is 1 too many.

[Road_Warrior]

Just so everyone is clear on the subject, the referendum will not be considering whether we need local government or not. Regardless of whether the referendum succeeds or fails, local government will still exist.

[Tribal]

Originally Posted by GhiaEB

I agree 3 tiers of government is 1 too many.

I personally think there are two levels too many. Remove state politics and imagine a county with unified policies to govern all - Schools, Hospitals, Transport, Business, Infrastructure, Justice etc - by introducing a third level we are moving more towards a bureaucratic quagmire where the losers will continue to be the people that elect incompetent officials seeking power...

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Tribal

I personally think there are two levels too many. Remove state politics and imagine a county with unified policies to govern all - Schools, Hospitals, Transport, Business, Infrastructure, Justice etc - by introducing a third level we are moving more towards a bureaucratic quagmire where the losers will continue to be the people that elect incompetent officials seeking power...

..... too much sense, to much to save in $$$, not enough jobs for the 'boys' and would cause way to much uniformity. Will never happen ....... unfortunately. Councils .... what are they good for .... absolutely nothing. You mentioned Schools, Hospitals, Transport, Business, Infrastructure, Justice etc .... just imagine if there was one bureaucratic office looking after these for each and the same rules for everyone. Too simple

[SB076]

Originally Posted by GhiaEB

I agree 3 tiers of government is 1 too many.

Agreed

[Tribal]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

..... too much sense, to much to save in $$$, not enough jobs for the 'boys' and would cause way to much uniformity. Will never happen ....... unfortunately. Councils .... what are they good for .... absolutely nothing. You mentioned Schools, Hospitals, Transport, Business, Infrastructure, Justice etc .... just imagine if there was one bureaucratic office looking after these for each and the same rules for everyone. Too simple

Maybe someone should put forward an alternative referendum that actually benefits the people with these ideas in mind ... sorry this is going O/T a little

[Tribal]

I do however think that those against are only pushing a childish agenda:

The Federal Government shouldn’t be advancing plans to “recognise” local councils in the Australian Constitution while those same councils are busily contributing to the nation’s housing undersupply, according to the Urban Taskforce.

If this is the power that local council has already, recognising it in the constitution will only make things worse. Having said that, I do support local council fighting development and keeping parks and gardens as they are.

Interestingly, the Urban Taskforce is only concerned with re-developing for their own profit under the guise of 'housing shortfall'

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Tribal

I do however think that those against are only pushing a childish agenda:

The Federal Government shouldn’t be advancing plans to “recognise” local councils in the Australian Constitution while those same councils are busily contributing to the nation’s housing undersupply, according to the Urban Taskforce.

If this is the power that local council has already, recognising it in the constitution will only make things worse. Having said that, I do support local council fighting development and keeping parks and gardens as they are.

Interestingly, the Urban Taskforce is only concerned with re-developing for their own profit under the guise of 'housing shortfall'

Yeah perhaps I didnt pick a very good example of the 'against' argument but it was just one I saw this morning in the news.

A more relevant argument, in my opinion, is retaining the State's ability to intervene in local government affairs when things go pear shaped. Local government has repeatedly demonstrated that it not always can be trusted with more responsibility and power. I need not remind people from NSW about the Wollongong City Council saga.

[glavas]

what we need is to get rid of the queen as our head of state and make the governor general the head of state call them what you will it does not matter. but i hate the fact that the head of state is a foreign national.

[geckoGT]

Warning for all, keep it on topic.

This is a discussion about local government, not a republican/monarchy debate and such a debate will not be allowed as it is breach of AFF T&C's as given below.

In short, the following things are not permitted:

1. Posts about or containing references to: religion, race, politics, sensitive or controversial subjects.

It falls over in that it is political, controversial and many would say sensitive.

[Jim Goose]

Funny a while ago on this forum in another thread i tried to explain why 3 levels of government was a bad idea and was shouted down with leftist and commie remarks.....

Most of Europe has only two levels of government ... regional councils and the federal side of things.

I think it was back in 1989 (?) that a referendum was held to change the constitution to recognise local councils. It failed dismally....

The abolition of the state government and the introduction of large regional councils/ governance would be a better idea then the current 3 levels of stupidity.

[FGII-XR6]

I feel we only need 2 tiers of government federal and local amalgamate some councils and do away with state government

[buggerlugs]

Are'nt we one of the most over governed countries in the world ?

[FPV+fteT3]

It failed before and it will fail again joe public does not want any more legitimate governing and I dont think state governments would want to share power with local govco.
With all that has happened in politics of late it would suprise me if any government would ask the public ...do you want more of the same from someone else?

[xtremerus]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

I feel we only need 2 tiers of government federal and local amalgamate some councils and do away with state government

I agree, but the problem is that Federal Govt. only exists BECAUSE of the States.

Australia is a Federation of States.

The whole Australian Constitution would have to be dissolved, to have just Federal and Local Regional Government.

[buggerlugs]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITUSZ6LRHrk
"It's the constitution"

[flappist]

Originally Posted by xtremerus

I agree, but the problem is that Federal Govt. only exists BECAUSE of the States.

Australia is a Federation of States.

The whole Australian Constitution would have to be dissolved, to have just Federal and Local Regional Government.

And in that it is indissoluble there may be a slight problem.

[mr smith]

Local council is where democracy takes place. Knowing some people in our local council I can say they are some of the hardest working and committed people I know, and I have seen their frustration because of under funding. The average Aussie has no idea of what goes on behind the scenes.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by mr smith

Local council is where democracy takes place. Knowing some people in our local council I can say they are some of the hardest working and committed people I know, and I have seen their frustration because of under funding. The average Aussie has no idea of what goes on behind the scenes.

Hmm i would disagree there... there are a lot of people who are very tired of their councils and how they do things. Particularly here in QLD.

There certainly isnt any democracy in action here in Townsville

[mr smith]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Hmm i would disagree there... there are a lot of people who are very tired of their councils and how they do things. Particularly here in QLD.

There certainly isnt any democracy in action here in Townsville

Do they actively get involved or do the usual council bashing with out having a clue how the system works or even attending a local meeting?

I have been involved with a local planning issue and was surprised at what is involved.

[Road_Warrior]

Many people do not know what happens behind the scenes. Many people cannot (or will not) appreciate the legislative environment that leads to Council decisions because all they want is things their way, regardless of what the law says. Most people would be surprised what their local Council does and how much of their daily lives are influenced by them.

That said, Councils are their own worst enemy sometimes and make some appalling decisions and employ some of the most incompetent (and sometimes corrupt) people in existence. I have come across enough of them to form an army.

I have been involved with local government for the past 10 years at both a local and state level (including working for local government in the UK) and I can sure tell you some horror stories. But my personal opinion is that this referendum must fail.

[Franco Cozzo]

Hell no, my local council are the biggest pack of morons, regardless of who is working there.

Ever since they took away the divisions from within the councils (example, each town had a budget) we've all gone down the gurgler except where the council office is and one certain town.

The grass in our shire only gets cut twice a year, common for it to grow 6 feet plus on the side of the road.

The main highway out of my town barely ever gets fixed anymore, up until last year many people damaged cars on the crappy road.

We where given a couple of million dollars for a new sporting complex from the federal goverment in my town, instead the council spends all the money elsewhere, then complains they didn't get enough money.

That being said, I wouldn't mind a job at the council, I want to go around looking at park benches and drains all day long for good money

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by Tribal

I personally think there are two levels too many. Remove state politics and imagine a county with unified policies to govern all - Schools, Hospitals, Transport, Business, Infrastructure, Justice etc - by introducing a third level we are moving more towards a bureaucratic quagmire where the losers will continue to be the people that elect incompetent officials seeking power...

^^^This. + 1

In some big businesses they changed the organisational structure to be more streamlined and increase efficiency (mainly due to less bureaucracy and more individual accountability for decisions)...I don't see why this kind of org structure should be any different...

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by mr smith

Do they actively get involved or do the usual council bashing with out having a clue how the system works or even attending a local meeting?

I have been involved with a local planning issue and was surprised at what is involved.

council here rarely holds open meetings... its 90% of the time closed doors and when it is open it meets for 20mins and its all over. No one in the gallery get a word in.

Not to mention is massive debt ($400Mill) which bankrupt soon... its 120% rate rise in 4yrs. Just to name a few...