"Carsguide" FG XR6 vs. VE2 SV6 comparison.

**Silver Ghia** · 07-10-2011, 08:49 PM

Today in "CarsGuide", there was a comparison between the FG Falcon XR6 and the VE Commodore SV6. Of course the VE won, even though they said the Falcon drove better.

http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and...ord_falcon_xr6

Two main gripes with the comparison:

Value Falcon scored 3/5, Commodore 3.5/5. The Falcon price was quoted at $42,990, whilst the Commodore at $42,790. Even though they acknowledged that a Limited Edition XR6 was the test car, priced at $34,990. But they said they will stick with an "apples for apples standoff" and compare the full prices.

Now who buys a XR6 at $42,990? I remember last year when the VE1 was being run out the price was still a couple of thousand higher than the XR50, which was by far the better equipped package.

Carsguide should compare 'real' prices for the cars, prices which people normally pay, and doing so the XR6 LE would have been shown to have a much better value than the SV6.

Safety, Falcon scored 3/5, the Commodore 3.5/5. The curtain airbag issue was mentioned again. No mention that the Ancap tests actually gave Falcon a higher score 34.61/37 from the testing, than Commodore 33.45/37, even with the airbag issue taken care of in the scoring.

Seems the journalists at Carsguide know better about what makes a safer car than the professional engineers doing the crash test evaluations.

Bossxr8 · 07-10-2011, 10:05 PM

What can you expect from Carsguide, they will find any reason to award Commodore the win.

They haven't even mentioned the FG MkII yet and Ford released pics and info around 3-4 weeks ago?

They also fail to mention that the MkII gets the curtain airbags standard across the sedan range too.

Joe5619 · 07-10-2011, 11:17 PM

They also forgot to mention that the FG was found to be the safety car on the road in real crushes in the real world!! yet was said to be less safe.. Go figure!!

Falc'man · 07-10-2011, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

What can you expect from Carsguide, they will find any reason to award Commodore the win.

They haven't even mentioned the FG MkII yet and Ford released pics and info around 3-4 weeks ago?

They also fail to mention that the MkII gets the curtain airbags standard across the sedan range too.

Are you surprised they needed to get one last cheap-shot article in before MkII?

**GazzF6** · 07-10-2011, 11:35 PM

Carsguide who? Never heard of them....

Franco Cozzo · 08-10-2011, 12:26 AM

We've got a VE2 SV6 at work, and apart from the touch screen, the car is crap, the number one thing I hate about it is that you can't really see much out of it, it feels like visability is very poor.

RAPID_BA · 08-10-2011, 12:30 AM

The falcon has more punch at any revs under 5000rpm, loads more torque. That's where 95% of the driving. Above 5000rpm they are about equal.

So the rest if the 5% driving at wot ill call it equal

FGX-351 · 08-10-2011, 05:10 AM

My opinion was just summed up on carsguide after I just read them mention the "Stone Brothers Commodore" in the QLD edition.
Enough said lol.

Brazen · 08-10-2011, 12:30 PM

Ancap does not test the safety for rear seat passengers, something curtain airbags protect. I have been saying for ages that Ford's stupid RRP costs Ford sales with people using internet for car research.

Danny · 08-10-2011, 12:48 PM

Hang on. The Commodore has rear curtains doesn't it, while the Falcon doesn't.

In which case, I suspect the win by a slight margin to commodore could well be warranted.

BigAL_250 · 08-10-2011, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

Hang on. The Commodore has rear curtains doesn't it, while the Falcon doesn't.

In which case, I suspect the win by a slight margin to commodore could well be warranted.

Wow, did you not read anything in this thread?

The people who test all our cars for safety (ANCAP), rated the FG Falcon (without curtains) as having higher safety than the VE Commo (with curtains).
This has also been verified in real world conditions.

Airbags are not the be all and end all of safety.

jpd80 · 08-10-2011, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAL_250

Wow, did you not read anything in this thread?

The people who test all our cars for safety (ANCAP), rated the FG Falcon (without curtains) as having higher safety than the VE Commo (with curtains).
This has also been verified in real world conditions.

Airbags are not the be all and end all of safety.

Rear seat passenger head injuries are not included in the ANCAP scoring system,
that's why Ford gets a win on superior front seat injury score but fails with rear seat passenger safety.

Without curtain Airbags, your rear seat passengers stand a good chance of dying due to
significant head strike against the upper door frame, something ANCAP doesn't score.

That's why Ford's decision to jiggle points to get five star rating without curtain airbags
for rear passengers was morally bankrupt. In my books, that is far worse than Holden
conjuring a win on fuel economy numbers out of the pathetic 3.0 SIDI...

**Dave R** · 08-10-2011, 01:32 PM

I think that was fair, they gave the Falcon the win where it counts - how it drives.

mik · 08-10-2011, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Rear seat passenger head injuries are not included in the ANCAP scoring system,
that's why Ford gets a win on superior front seat injury score but fails with rear seat passenger safety.

Without curtain Airbags, your rear seat passengers stand a good chance of dying due to
significant head strike against the upper door frame, something ANCAP doesn't score.

That's why Ford's decision to jiggle points to get five star rating without curtain airbags
for rear passengers was morally bankrupt. In my books, that is far worse than Holden
conjuring a win on fuel economy numbers out of the pathetic 3.0 SIDI...

agreed , it does seem a poor decision to make the curtain air bag for rear passengers an option, 99.999999 % percent will never need them more than likely, but for some buying a new car it could be a deal breaker when both cars are similar but one has an an extra safety aid.

Smoke Pursuit · 08-10-2011, 01:42 PM

They are no longer an option from Nov 2011 build... they are standard.

Bossxr8 · 08-10-2011, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

They are no longer an option from Nov 2011 build... they are standard.

Carsguide don't want to mention it though, as it takes away their number 1 potshot at Falcon. MkII press release was 3 or 4 weeks ago and still no mention in Carsguide. The MY 12 Commodore got a 2 page right up.

What are they going to do once MK II goes into production, they will have to find something else to bring up in every Falcon and Commodore article to give a whack to Falcon about.

They will probably just stick to talking about low sales numbers and the FACT, which isn't even a fact at all, that the Falcon is going to become a Taurus, because they pass it off as fact.

2011G6E · 08-10-2011, 03:54 PM

Both Ford and Holden told us, regarding the XR6 and the SV6, that we would be advised not to sit down and order a special car in a special colour with certain features, rather to pick one off the lot or ask if they have access to one close to what we wanted.
I seem to recall (back in March) that an XR6 (off the lot) was between $32,500 and $37,000 drive away, depending on the dealer and the features, but if we sat down and ordered a specific car, it was going to cost well over $40,000 to $45,000.
The figures were much the same at Holden.
It all depends on whether someone walks in off the street and is hapy with what the cars on the lot at the time have to offer, or if they really want a special car built to thier specs from an option sheet. When a magazine prices a car, they don't ring all the dealers and ask what prices the cars sitting on the lot are...they look at the "official" sale price of the car.

**Polyal** · 08-10-2011, 04:03 PM

Put it this way, I think two weeks ago they did a review on the XR6 LPi, couldnt help themselves to add a couple of paragraphs on on GMH system which is obviously nothing like the Fords...anyway, when it came to the verdict do you know what two key points where...

1. Could do without the spoiler....ah its a XR6!
2. Didnt like the purple colour.....

Now, you can probably guess the gender of the writer (no offense, I know some good car chicks) but how are those two bits even worth mentioning at all, let alone in the conclusion.

These people are blog writers, not automotive evaluators and such their pieces should be seen as nothing more than a qualitative opinion..thats it.

**Silver Ghia** · 08-10-2011, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Both Ford and Holden told us, regarding the XR6 and the SV6, that we would be advised not to sit down and order a special car in a special colour with certain features, rather to pick one off the lot or ask if they have access to one close to what we wanted.
I seem to recall (back in March) that an XR6 (off the lot) was between $32,500 and $37,000 drive away, depending on the dealer and the features, but if we sat down and ordered a specific car, it was going to cost well over $40,000 to $45,000.
The figures were much the same at Holden.
It all depends on whether someone walks in off the street and is hapy with what the cars on the lot at the time have to offer, or if they really want a special car built to thier specs from an option sheet. When a magazine prices a car, they don't ring all the dealers and ask what prices the cars sitting on the lot are...they look at the "official" sale price of the car.

But they were testing a Limited Edition XR6, which is available by order from the production line for $34,990 driveaway (as they stated), which is what is available right now, when this comparison was published.

So did you actually sit down with a dealer to a point where the deal was ready to sign at a price of $42,990? Very much doubt that would happen especially in the last days of the FG1. Anyone paying $42,990 obviously wouldn't have done their homework at all, doubt there would be many, if at all any XR6's sold at that price at this point of the FG1 production.

4stanger · 08-10-2011, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Both Ford and Holden told us, regarding the XR6 and the SV6, that we would be advised not to sit down and order a special car in a special colour with certain features, rather to pick one off the lot or ask if they have access to one close to what we wanted.
I seem to recall (back in March) that an XR6 (off the lot) was between $32,500 and $37,000 drive away, depending on the dealer and the features, but if we sat down and ordered a specific car, it was going to cost well over $40,000 to $45,000.
The figures were much the same at Holden.
It all depends on whether someone walks in off the street and is hapy with what the cars on the lot at the time have to offer, or if they really want a special car built to thier specs from an option sheet. When a magazine prices a car, they don't ring all the dealers and ask what prices the cars sitting on the lot are...they look at the "official" sale price of the car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

But they were testing a Limited Edition XR6, which is available by order from the production line for $34,990 driveaway (as they stated), which is what is available right now, when this comparison was published.

So did you actually sit down with a dealer to a point where the deal was ready to sign at a price of $42,990? Very much doubt that would happen especially in the last days of the FG1. Anyone paying $42,990 obviously wouldn't have done their homework at all, doubt there would be many, if at all any XR6's sold at that price at this point of the FG1 production.

Sorry if us country folk in Queensland aren't as gifted as you folk who live next door to the factory, but that just how it happens. You can get the better price on what they have in stock up here, just try and ask for a different colour or other options and then you are at the disposal of all the middle men!

HULK EF · 08-10-2011, 08:03 PM

The bias they show in their articles. and crap un-professional personale comments (purple colour and no wing) realy realy schitt me badly.. Almost criminal behaviour..
Makes me think their holding back on MK11 news as they dont want to publish anything positive on a new falcon that may revive sales that the media have helped to diminish.. (constant tauraus rumours/v6 only/ front wheel drive rumours)

Assassinbm · 08-10-2011, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HULK EF

The bias they show in their articles. and crap un-professional personale comments (purple colour and no wing) realy realy schitt me badly.. Almost criminal behaviour..
Makes me think their holding back on MK11 news as they dont want to publish anything positive on a new falcon that may revive sales that the media have helped to diminish.. (constant tauraus rumours/v6 only/ front wheel drive rumours)

I am afraid this this is just another feeble homodore/holden fans trying to bash the superior performing vehicle trying to pick on the chassis wtf......saying its more like "an older-school muscle car", I think that is a GOOD THING, learn to drive again, they also forget to mention the vd homo still looks the same as how long ago vs the FG......no surprise here

prydey · 09-10-2011, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Ancap does not test the safety for rear seat passengers, something curtain airbags protect.

what about the fact that fg is the safest used car available based on real world accidents??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

I have been saying for ages that Ford's stupid RRP costs Ford sales with people using internet for car research.

the holden is the same $40k+ RRP in the article. all manufacturers sell cars below rrp. its not like they said the holden is 36k and the ford is 42k!!

onfire · 09-10-2011, 02:26 PM

I guess, people will never truly understand that anything written in the papers, or media is purely opinion.

FG_Frodza · 09-10-2011, 02:31 PM

If they wanted to compare apples with apples as they state, they would have waited for Falcon Mk2. This is crap, comparing them just before the Mk2 is about to be released, and not even give the Falcon the benefit of the price advantage.

Completely unacceptable but hey, we're Ford supporters, we're used to this by now aren't we?

2011G6E · 09-10-2011, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arnaldo

Sorry if us country folk in Queensland aren't as gifted as you folk who live next door to the factory, but that just how it happens. You can get the better price on what they have in stock up here, just try and ask for a different colour or other options and then you are at the disposal of all the middle men!

Thank you...you're absolutely correct. I imagine it's a very different situation in a capital city where there is a masisve variety of cars on offer, and close transport to the factory if you decide to go "custom".
When we bought the G6E in Rockhampton, they had a grand total of two to choose from...both 50th Anniversary models made at the very end of 2010, a white one and the Edge coloured one we bought. There was also two G6's, a dark red one and a white one, but that was it...if you wanted something other than the great deal they were offering on them, it was go inside, fill out the option form, and bend over and wait for the inevitable...

back to the Falcon review...I think it's quite fair to at least mention the existance of the vehicle which is the nearest direct competitor, especially when it offers a similar (OK Ok...not exactly the same, but similar) system like LPG. It can't be just a stroke fest over the car being written about...they have to mention competition and also what features are better or worse than the other car, and that fits whether it has a lion or a blue oval on the front...

onfire · 09-10-2011, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FG_Frodza

If they wanted to compare apples with apples as they state, they would have waited for Falcon Mk2. This is crap, comparing them just before the Mk2 is about to be released, and not even give the Falcon the benefit of the price advantage.

Completely unacceptable but hey, we're Ford supporters, we're used to this by now aren't we?

It's Sunday, Oct 9th 2011.. the FGI sits in the Ford Showroom, and the VEII sits in the Holden showroom. They are in direct competition with each other from a buyers point of view.

It's completely acceptable to compare these two vehicles. It's that easy.

**Silver Ghia** · 09-10-2011, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Thank you...you're absolutely correct. I imagine it's a very different situation in a capital city where there is a masisve variety of cars on offer, and close transport to the factory if you decide to go "custom".
When we bought the G6E in Rockhampton, they had a grand total of two to choose from...both 50th Anniversary models made at the very end of 2010, a white one and the Edge coloured one we bought. There was also two G6's, a dark red one and a white one, but that was it...if you wanted something other than the great deal they were offering on them, it was go inside, fill out the option form, and bend over and wait for the inevitable...

The situation whether its country or city is just the same. If you wanted one in a particular colour or spec. and they havent got it there in stock and its available from another dealer, they swap stock with that dealer who has got the colour or whatever. This swapping happens all the time. Being close to the factory is of no benefit in this regard.

With regard to the 50th anniversary model, if you ordered when the offer first came out like many here including myself, it would have come straight off the production line built especially for you, unless there was one in the required specification already built. The same goes with the Limited Edition that was tested in the comparison.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

back to the Falcon review...I think it's quite fair to at least mention the existance of the vehicle which is the nearest direct competitor, especially when it offers a similar (OK Ok...not exactly the same, but similar) system like LPG. It can't be just a stroke fest over the car being written about...they have to mention competition and also what features are better or worse than the other car, and that fits whether it has a lion or a blue oval on the front...

Not sure what you are trying to get at here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by onfire

It's Sunday, Oct 9th 2011.. the FGI sits in the Ford Showroom, and the VEII sits in the Holden showroom. They are in direct competition with each other from a buyers point of view.

It's completely acceptable to compare these two vehicles. It's that easy.

But there wasn't even any mention of the FG2 that was announced a few weeks ago by Ford. In fact as far as I can remember there hasnt been any mention of this whatsoever in Cars"guide" since the announcement.

To me, Carsguide are doing a lot of harm to local car production, including Holden, by continuing with their one-eyed mindset.

4stanger · 09-10-2011, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

The situation whether its country or city is just the same. If you wanted one in a particular colour or spec. and they havent got it there in stock and its available from another dealer, they swap stock with that dealer who has got the colour or whatever. This swapping happens all the time. Being close to the factory is of no benefit in this regard.

Please understand. This poor Qld. country ford buyer has been there and tried to do that with regards to swapping with the local dealer. Local dealer reckons they couldn't do it without adding to the price(charging RRP) for the colour I wanted. End result I had to travel 8 hours to the big smoke to save thousands(well worth it to). It is a shame but there are a lot of potential sales in the cashed up mining areas of Queensland and W.A. Yet local dealers can't compete with our city cousins. Where is Anchor for a reply?

2011G6E · 09-10-2011, 06:57 PM

The Ford dealer in Emerald closed a few months back, and no apparent movement on it being re-opened or taking on new owners. This means a 170km trip for us to Rocky to the nearest dealer, or 270km for people in Emerald. It's not like Falcons (and all the other makes the dealer sold) are thin on the ground out here...no idea why the dealer shut.

It's not surprising that they didn't mention the FG2...they didn't mention what the next model Commodore is going to be like either. Unless they can lay hands on metal, there's really no point mentioning it at all...it's merely a potential future model.