Fuel Pump not working

[Shthappens]

Look i have just replaced the fuel pump in my 2001 Cougar only to find it is not pumping.

I had the prtoblem that it was not pumping on the initial ignition switch on and after reading a bit about them I figured ill replace it anyway.

Now does anyone know how to test the circuit I have swapped the relays about to no affect and checked the fuses. Also I have bypassed and shorted the inertia switch but still no fuel on ignition switching.

Could it be the FDM or something else??

engine turns over but with hoses off the fuel filter no fuel flows obviously since the pump aint winding

[REDDYZ]

What I understand is the fuel pump is not pumping even after replacing the pump.

Did you replace just the pump or the whole pump assembly including sender unit?

Best and easy solution for you is to hook up a scan tool and do the diagnostics. That will pin point the exact problem and you don't have to mess around testing wiring and circuits. I will do that as a last resort.

I don't think Cougars have a dedicated FDM. Its built into ECU I think.

Anyway, with SnapOn diagnostic tool, you can test the whole circuit with out starting the engine. It has a feature called self diagnostics where it checks each and every circuit to see everything is working or not. I have few screen shots from general self diagnostics. Pics below are not specific to fuel system but the tool just check everything in the car.





And if you look at the pic below there is a diagnostic option specifically for fuel system. I don't know whats in there but definitely there will be a lot of options related to fuel system.



You can activate or deactivate any circuit using this tool, it shows live data when engine is running. It has over 30 or 40 different functions just for our Cougar. This tool can be used on any car. You just have to plug in the appropriate key which comes with the tool and select the make and model after plugging in.

Cheers

[Shthappens]

OK Damm nice tool

What I have discovered is a bit more basic then this. When the pump is connected directly to the socket going onto the fuel pump assembly LID from the FDM (not to the wires that are included within the tank from the tank side of the socket) it spins. But when connected to the wires that connect to the tank cover Socket inside the tank it does not.

I have used this testing to rule out the rest of the system as I was positive that the initial on ignition pump spin was there prior to replacing pump and this proves that it is still present. As such the FDM located in back seat passenger side panel is working as it is supposed to.

To me all this says that the wires or socket are open circuit. Now firstly I have changed the poles of the motor just in case the pump is actually a directional pump and will not pump in reverse polarity (I Know unlikely but as it happens I have seen simple errors like this before)

Being straight in lugs in the socket I have also tried turning each lug 20 degrees and cleaning each contact to ensure that the socket is making good contact within the socket and still no go. But for now with a tank of fuel and the pump still submersed in fuel I am not really excited about using a meter in side of the Tank. Im allergic to explosions.

I will be removing the pump and surge pot assembly and soldering all connections within the tank and using a meter to check I have a solid wire from socket to pump and back again.

I have had several problems with fuel pumps in this car and now if a wire has become open circuit behind the socket as I fear this could easily explain surges and rough riding of the car at some times and not others.

Would this intermittent fault be something that your tool could pick up? If so how without data logging during on the road trips It seems to be mainly a static tester.

With a recall on the tank fuel pump assembly I have little faith on this entire assembly. I will be testing every bit of wire once i remove the entire assembly and will explore the possibility that the wires inside the pump assemble LID socket could in fact become open circuit intermittently. If this is the case then with the rigors of driving it could explain rough idling and other behavior that has been classed as unknown on many of these cars.

Would a partially open circuit wire or socket cause the car to idle surge splutter and loose revs on corners much the way many of these cars have reported to many forums?

Does each old fuel pump get tested after replacing? I say this as once I found power to the connector that goes onto the fuel tank I didn't hesitate ordering another fuel pump as I assumed it was dead?

Time will tell I will repost and discribe the exact fault I have here once i get the energy to drain and drop my tank remove the assembly and resolder all connections. Then I will run a meter over each wire making sure that the socket and wires are good.

[REDDYZ]

Originally Posted by Shthappens

OK Damm nice tool

What I have discovered is a bit more basic then this. When the pump is connected directly to the socket going onto the fuel pump assembly LID from the FDM (not to the wires that are included within the tank from the tank side of the socket) it spins. But when connected to the wires that connect to the tank cover Socket inside the tank it does not.

Are you trying to say that if you bypass the socket, wires circled red in the pic below and connect pump directly to the connector thats outside the tank, then the pump works fine?



If thats the case, as far I know the pump inside the tank is firmly locked inside a shell and this shell sits on a grove inside the tank so that it can't move or twist. There is no way that the wires from pump to the socket inside the tank will twist or move. If the shell is moving around then its moved out of its seating guide or something snapped inside that holds the unit in place. But like you said if you bypass them and if it works then just replace the wires within the pump and this should solve the problem.

Originally Posted by Shthappens

But for now with a tank of fuel and the pump still submersed in fuel I am not really excited about using a meter in side of the Tank.[/I] Im allergic to explosions.

Hahaha.. lol I bet this allergic syndrome is common with everyone. hehe.. But seriously with pump lid open there will fuel vapours inside the car even with windows open. A solder iron is enough to ignite the vapours. Yes, the pump is directional and spins only in one direction.

The tool that I mentioned can be used for live monitoring as well. It will definitely pick up intermittent fault as it has fuel pump monitor function. You can plug it in and go for a drive and see live data. It will definitely pick up. But this tool is expensive to own. Lot of workshops carry this. Unless you know someone who can lend this, its hard to access this tool.

Ford has used over 10 different fuel pumps on the Cougars that include return and return less. Just with Oz cougars within 2 years Ford used 3 different pump options fitted. They all look same but has different part numbers with change in the way they work.

Yes, a partially open circuit wires can cause then intermittent surging issue.

You believe it or not, I have heard cases that this surging problem started after replacing the whole pump with sender unit with a brand new genuine unit. I don't know whether you are aware of surging issue when fuel drops below 1/2 or 1/4 tank. I know 2 cases wherein if fuel drops below 1/4 tank car surges under load or acceleration and in one case its 1/2 tank. Its not intermittent, precisely when fuel gets to that mark. In this case if it is partial open circuit, surging occur when wires are submerged in the fuel as fuel floats and moves the wires.

Replacing fuel pump unit did not solve this issue and in fact in one case this issue started after replacing a dead fuel pump unit with a new one.

I never heard anyone testing old fuel pumps after being replaced. I know its pain in the *** to drop the tank in order to get the pump out. Some people had just cut open the metal sheet under the seats to take the pump out with out dropping the tank. I wouldn't do that but its an option.

Keep us posted on this and if possible post some pics to make us understand easily. cheers

Yogi

[thearrow]

As soon as I get to 60km (about 1/4 of a tank) to MT mine runs like a dog in fact it is not driveable at all. For the time being will put up with it but I would be worried on a long trip.

[Shthappens]

Firstly I was wrong about the wires being the cuplrit in this situation as They where not.

Once again with this car the problem has been connectors. I found that the socket in the lid actually was. When inspecting the wires I saw that I could actually remove the inside section of the socket on the fuel tank LID.

After removing the section it was obvious the connections within the socket itself are failing...

Trying to Upload images atm

Now what I mentioned about stresses upon the wires within the tank still may apply. The wire in the tank would move more when the tank is filled above a certain amount when the wires are unhindered in movement from the fuel then they will move about being effected with the movement of the vehicle.

[Shthappens]

Stupid Time Delay

Firstly I was wrong about the wires being the cuplrit in this situation as They where not.

Once again with this car the problem has been connectors. I found that the socket in the lid actually was. When inspecting the wires I saw that I could actually remove the inside section of the socket on the fuel tank LID.

After removing the section it was obvious the connections within the socket itself are failing...

http://www.fordforums.com.au/photos/...ppuser=2262265

What a limit of 2 per day shesh that's a bit tight!!!!!

Now what I mentioned about stresses upon the wires within the tank still may apply. The wire in the tank would move more when the tank is filled below a certain amount when the wires are unhindered in movement from the fuel then they will move about being effected with the movement of the vehicle and waves of fuel.

Now yous didnt get the image of the socket but there has been enough arcing to melt the plastic and actually deform the space that the connectors fit within. I will upload that image tomorrow

OK Now i know that some of the new units suffer from the surging and other problems but I did notice when removing the socket on the inside to find this problem the inner section that comes out does have an amount of play and this will cause movements on the contacts which is bad for causing this sort of problem.

My Experience in the past has been home appliance servicing NOT cars so I am placing all my assumptions about this from my experience working on TV's Videos washing machines etc not on vehicle fuel systems!

So I urge anyone that has such problems with a Cougar surging to investigate this STUPID connector for it to be a three piece connector is ridiculous and even on the new units I would be interested to see if this same connector style has been used?

[Shthappens]

Sry for the multi posts

I will be looking at drilling out the inner connector and soldering wires directly to the lugs in the middle section as shown in the diagram and I will also be soldering directly to the fuel pump lugs and securing the actual wires within the tank together and to the hoses to ensure minimal movement within the tank.

I will upload the image missing tomorrow and let yous know How she runs with the new pump and wiring.

PS I now have a spare fuel pump that works fine.

PSS I guess a few people should do the pain in the .... job of dropping there fuel tank this weekend

[REDDYZ]

Mate, you can create a free account in one of the free image hosting websites like photobucket.com, upload photos there, copy image code and paste it in your replies along with text. Just like what am doing. Its free and unlimited.

I saw the photo you posted and the pump looks totally different. It has different socket, different inlet/outlet connections (am not talking about the hose or clamp, am talking about the direction they are facing). Is that a genuine pump you bought? or is it an after market pump? The socket on our pumps is square in shape. This is exactly how our pumps looks like.



The inlet or outlet hose is facing upwards in your pic which is different. In the pic above you can see both inlet and outlets are facing flat and straight not upwards. Probably Ford used different pumps in 2001 models.

Interesting finding though about the arching. Seriously Ford should recall all this crap. If the problem is with the female part of the socket then better replace it or make custom soldered connections like what you are planning to do.

Whoever has surging problem should immediately check this socket for traces of arching. It is like carrying a bomb in the back seat.

[Shthappens]

Ok that is the outside of the pump you are showing I was showing the inside of that cover.

I work in a Hydraulic Warehouse so was able to get hose to replace the existing hoses on the pump due to the pump i fitted (that is actually slightly stronger then the one that was in there) and as such has a different layout then the one that was in there.

Your assembly pictured above is exactly the same as mine. Connector as well. It has one part seen on the outside another connecting to the LID and another connector inside which is stupid.

When you take that off turn it over and you can unplug all wires from the LID in there is the fault

as seen in your image

[Shthappens]

Sry about the size but at least you can see in detail

[REDDYZ]

Ok got it. I misunderstood with your photo because it looks exactly like the outside one.

I wonder what is Ford's logic behind designing a detachable socket inside the lid. Seriously stupid, hopeless design.

[REDDYZ]

I found the possible reason why/how wires can move and come loose when fuel is low.

If you see the pic below, wires are cable tied to the flexi fuel line. When this fuel line is not submerged in fuel, it stretches or goes up and down whenever fuel is being pumped under high pressure. This movement will also pull the wire up and down as it is tied up to that hose.



Obviously at certain stage that wire will come loose and eventually arc and loses contact.

[Shthappens]

OK solution for me was to drill out the individual burnt out connector and pass the wire throught the hole. I then soldered the wire directly to the pin and reinserted the socket over the top of the offending connection.

Worked a treat only costing me a bit of time i fear the cost of replacement so didnt even bother trying to source the connector

[REDDYZ]

Thats good. However, I think only the problem is fixed not the cause. I don't believe its the connecter/socket that is at fault on its own. I hope you found the cause along with the problem. cheers.

[Shthappens]

yes I have replaced the relay for the fuel pump as i suspect it was a dirty relay