New, Demo or Second-hand ?

[Rodge]

When is a car new, effectivly new, a demonstrator or second hand ?

Nothing beats a factory fresh new car right ?
Its brand new, it smells new, you get to run it in carefully in exactly the manner you choose, you get the choice of colour and options. Nothing would beat that right ?

But perhaps there is something better, one that's officially a demo that enjoys the circa 6% additional demonstrator discount but has been undriven. Provided its in a colour you like and has the options you want, its better than new, it might have 30-50 km's on the clock where its had its pre-delivery checks and registration and may have been shifted around the sales yard once or twice but for all intents and purposes its brand new and you can save the demo discount and potentially several months waiting compared to one that is officially new.

Then we get ionto the grey area's where I didn't always get it so right. My last car an F6 was a demo and had been driven for 3,000 km's which I came to realise were probably hard km's. I kidded myself it was as good as new when I bought it but it was beset with quality control problems and the story didn't end well with me shifting it on quickly at a significant loss.

I got to thinking recently, do they try it on a bit...I got the story it was the Dealer Principals personal drive car, and that was the basis upon which I initially kidded myself that particular car was as good as new.
When you buy a demo with XYZ 1000 km's on it, do you try and kid yourself its effectivly a new car ?, is it, what do you think ?

Here's my theory:-
0-100 km's new or pre-registered demo = new
100-1000 km's almost as good as new, a reasonable discount on new price should be expected
1,000-5,000 km's effectivly really is a demonstrator and a good discount to new price should be expected
5,000 km's plus is effectivly a second hand car and should be priced as such, big call but that's how I see it.

What do you think and how do you classify cars that are close to new ?
Do dealers try and imply that demo cars with thousands of km's are as good as new, what's your experience ?

[jphanna]

Demo is good buy....they wont have a demo running around without ALL the bugs sorted....

cheaper

run hard so they will rev harder so engine will run sweeter thougout its life.

[falconnut]

+1

Demo and or Used are good buys.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Becareful...

Dealers register cars as "Undriven Demos" so they can get bonus's back from the manufacturers. An un-driven demo is as good as a new car, just sold as a demo. I have bought a number of un-driven demos, some cars haven't even had the plastic taken off them (still sitting in holding yards).

On the other hand there are other driven demos which can have up to 5,000 kms on them.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Becareful...

Dealers register cars as "Undriven Demos" so they can get bonus's back from the manufacturers. An un-driven demo is as good as a new car, just sold as a demo. I have bought a number of un-driven demos, some cars haven't even had the plastic taken off them (still sitting in holding yards).

On the other hand there are other driven demos which can have up to 5,000 kms on them.

I agree with Dash, the low kms demos under 100km, are a good buy, the demo's with 1000's nfg.

But in saying that I always buy new, get what I want, no one else touching it.

[mik]

never had a newey, driven heaps of them though, but i have always considered new is just the km`s on the odo from the production to the dealer,
you just have to ask yourself, have i ever had a new hire car and did i give it the beans to test it out, i think i know what most peoples answer will be.

[MAGPIE]

As far as I'm concerned it's a demo if its done between 100km & 1000+km.

If it's a pre registered demo with 100 or less km's it is essentially brand new and is something I would buy for a good discount (and I have).

If it's done over 100 km's it's a demo, I would consider buying if it's done under 1000km but it is not new it's a demo.

Over a 1000km No thanks.

A new car shouldn't have more than 20km on the clock if it did I would be asking some pretty hard questions of the dealer.

My last brand new car, MY09 Forester XT had 11km on it.

The pre reg demo I bought had just under 100km on it, I put 20km on it & bought it.

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by mik

never had a newey, driven heaps of them though, but i have always considered new is just the km`s on the odo from the production to the dealer,
you just have to ask yourself, have i ever had a new hire car and did i give it the beans to test it out, i think i know what most peoples answer will be.

I got a brand new Pug in the UK in 2003 for six weeks, 6 miles on the clock.

No I never abused it, but I did put 5000 miles on it.

[graham_h]

the 0-100km's theory isn't really sound.
I've seen first hand "brand new" cars in holding yards sat bouncing of the limiter and being flat out abused.
A yard at Brisbane docks (will have to remain nameless) have a "policy" to hold the cars for 5 whole miniutes bouncing off the limiter to "charge" the battery and stop them "clogging up".
I had to do that to a few new ****'s (can't say the brand).... damn it hurt.

I also saw several new cars left out in storms with windows down. They'd get dragged into the shed, seats removed then parked out in the sun to dry.

More than 50% of the new cars there have damage to them, biffed bumpers, chipped doors etc.

One thing is for sure you never know what has happened to your new car unless you collect it directly off the factory line.

I look at it this way. Take a new GT/GS for example 60-70k new. Buy that privately from an enthusiasts who has cared for it well with less than 40,000kms.
After 2-3yrs with less than 40,000 k's - you save at least $20,000. - $30,000

[Powdered Toast Man]

Mine was a demo with 6000kms on it and 10 months old, and after 125,000kms and 5 and a half years ownership still no problems. So they aren't always hard driven lemons. As to whether I considered it a demo or a used car. I definitley didn't consider it as a newy when I bought it, more a very low kay near new used I guess.

My brother just bought a demo VEII SSV a few weeks ago. It was never driven (it only had 50kms on it including pre delivery kms). Supposedly saved 17K off equivilent new price

[Poetic Justice]

Technically speaking, we can put up to 7000kms on a demonstrator before it becomes a used vehicle.

I think it's naive to think if a demo has 5000km on it then it has been thrashed.

[BPXR6T]

I bought a demo XR8 with 4000kms a few years back for a steal. I was the first owner on the books. I traded it three years later and once the tax advantage was taken into account had actually made money from owning that car. :-) Some good deals to be had with demos.

[Auslandau]

I'll go the other way to most above ...... have bought new and had more issues (small) than I have with 2,000-3,000 demos. I will now really only buy demo's. They have had any of the small issues fixed, anything I find on the body, paint work etc is fixed as part of the deal (stone chip here or there) can up to the better model more accessories because of the saving, still have a new car smell, still have full factory warranty, still have my name as first buyer stamped in the book ....... etc

Bought the GT as a 2,500 demo ....... touch wood .... 10,000 plus later ..... not an issue. Saved close to $10,000 on new price ..... if I bought new quite possibly I would have had to settle for a GS (not a bad settlement) or waited longer.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

I'll go the other way to most above ...... have bought new and had more issues (small) than I have with 2,000-3,000 demos. I will now really only buy demo's. They have had any of the small issues fixed, anything I find on the body, paint work etc is fixed as part of the deal (stone chip here or there) can up to the better model more accessories because of the saving, still have a new car smell, still have full factory warranty, still have my name as first buyer stamped in the book ....... etc

Bought the GT as a 2,500 demo ....... touch wood .... 10,000 plus later ..... not an issue. Saved close to $10,000 on new price ..... if I bought new quite possibly I would have had to settle for a GS (not a bad settlement) or waited longer.

I was in the same boat with the cooks Territory Titanium, it was either a 5,000 km old Titanium or a brand new TS... Considering my names in the book as first owner and only the 1 guy at the dealership drove it and did the 5,000 kms in less then a month I was happy (he lives at the Gold Coast and travels to brisbane daily).

Car now has 13,000 and its been all good. The only thing I could fault was the fact he had a baby seat in the car which left an imprint on the leather, which has now gone away! Not only did I save but I also got a car covered in accessories.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by SCUD

Technically speaking, we can put up to 7000kms on a demonstrator before it becomes a used vehicle.

I think it's naive to think if a demo has 5000km on it then it has been thrashed.

Thanks for that information and your viewpoint but I know when I evaluate a demonstrator car I give them a good workout, and it would surprise me if most people didn't, how else can you decide if it's going to meet your expectations ? I would have thought this is especially the case with a turbocharged or supercharged performance car that you're buying expressly for the purpose of its performance, you've got to try out the performance thoroughly don't you ?

[Peter B - CV8]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Thanks for that information and your viewpoint but I know when I evaluate a demonstrator car I give them a good workout, and it would surprise me if most people didn't, how else can you decide if it's going to meet your expectations ? I would have thought this is especially the case with a turbocharged or supercharged performance car that you're buying expressly for the purpose of its performance, you've got to try out the performance thoroughly don't you ?

Agreed, and we all wait until they have reached the correct operating temperature don't we ???? Especially if it's a turbo.....

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Thanks for that information and your viewpoint but I know when I evaluate a demonstrator car I give them a good workout, and it would surprise me if most people didn't, how else can you decide if it's going to meet your expectations ? I would have thought this is especially the case with a turbocharged or supercharged performance car that you're buying expressly for the purpose of its performance, you've got to try out the performance thoroughly don't you ?

What do you mean by thrashed? Driven how it is designed to be driven? Have tested HUGE amount of cars and yes, give em a bit of a work out but with the sales bloke sitting next to me (even when I know the blokes they still like to go most times with the higher performance cars) I am not fishtailing up the road if that's what you mean?

I would be doubtful that the cars are driven for 5,000 k's above what the car is designed for. A little squirt here and there I am sure.

Whats the difference anyway? I buy the car and then 'thrash' it for the next 150,000 k's.

[Rodge]

Dave, Sounds like you've got no concerns with yours which is good and there's other good stories on demo's here that people have been really happy with the savings and no problems encountered but i'm with Peter B above on this one.

Just talking about performance cars in particular, my concern is that at a time in their life when its important to run them in carefully, many new cars cars are driven off the lot and pushed pretty hard when they're cold.
Obviously I can't speak for others but when I test drove the SC demo to make up my mind on whether it was worth changing over from my F6 the Dealer principal, he knows me) gave me the keys for the afternoon by myself. Naturally I put the car through its paces in a very thorough way with plenty of wide open throttle and hard cornering and braking. (I did warm the engine up first though).
Other times when making purchase decisions and there has to be a salesman present I have let the salesman know in advance that I'll be testing it very thoroughly and if they don't like it i'll go elsewhere. Only once did I have an older salesman take exception to a thorough evaluation, so I said if I can't test it properly I won't buy it, he still wasn't happy so I drove back conservativly to the dealership and went elsewhere.

If you're happy with the savings and there's no drama's that's great, I only wish I'd had better fortune with demo's.

What's the difference anyway, fair question, does running a car in from brand new in accordance with the recommended proceedures add materially to the longevity or reliability of the vehicle...perhaps.

Extract from FPV compendium on running in:-
For the first 1600 km's from new, drive as per the following running in proceedure
Drive your new vehicle at least 160 km's before performing extended wide- open throttle manoeuvres. Drive at least 1600 km's before subjecting the vehicle to performance operating conditions.
Try not to drive at the same speed continuosly for the first 1600 km's of new vehicle operation. Vary your speed and throttle percentage on order to give the moving parts a chance to break in.
Do not allow the engine to idle for extensive periods of time.
Avoid hard stops except in emergencies.
Do not tow a trailer for the first 1,600 km's

I think running an engine in properly is important but acknowledge there's a school of thought that says give them heaps from the word go.

How much differencew does it make to the engines reliability or longevity, that's anyone's guess but if FPV didn't think it was important, why is it prominantly displayed in the FPV compendium and the cars operating manual...

[Auslandau]

Yeah but it goes past the demos too ...... have also an ex Hertz rental AU with 185000 on the clock. Got it with 35,000 at one of the those $22,000 special deals way back when. After 6 years? I think I just had to get a major work done on it ..... new steering arm, alternator, and a tune. In 6 years i think that's about it. Just saying ..... the worst cars you would think would be an ex rental. Also have kept the BA XR6 03 ..... ex Telstra. Was going to sell it but again ...... has cost bugger all so far.

Performance or not I don't think there is a difference for thrashing cars. Hired a Nissan TIDA and absolutely drove it in Tassie above what it was capable of. (only way to drive it through the hills!) I haven't driven the GT to its full extent yet as I would be in huge trouble if I did!

It might be just me being easy going but with 30 odd Falcons (some new a few demos and many second hand) over the years, there is one massive reason I have stuck with FORDS.

New if you can is a great way to go but Demo with the savings associated with it is also a pearler. Buy what you can and what you can afford and enjoy it for what it is.

[Rodge]

Fair enough. Naturally aspirated inline six has a wonderful reputation for longevity and reliability and I wouldn't have many concerns buying that or for that matter almost any NA demo car if there are really good savings to be had.

I'm more risk averse with high performance cars though, (once bitten, twice shy).