How to fix Syd, Melb and Bris congestion

[turbodewd]

Sydney, Melb and Bris are congested. Well why not move the state capitals and virtually all the government employees to new cities thus spreading growth out. Bendigo or Ballarat would be the new Vic capital for example. Maybe Toowoomba for Qld? Newcastle for NSW?

This would be a boon for the town selected and help ease the congestion of these cities. I know the ACT government has about 22,000 employees...surely the NSW govt is much much larger. So moving those 10s of thousands of NSW employees is worth examination. It would also have a multiplying effect on the town's growth, so even more jobs would be created to support the new government departments.

[Mechan1k]

They have started putting commercial industrial hubs up in the Central Coast region for this purpose ... and also to introduce more jobs in the area as well.

The logistics though of moving that many people ... not just government either. There's already that much setup infrastructure it's near impossible.

I am all for starting up new regional hubs for growth ... but doing a major company head office relocation is not easy.

It was massive for Optus to move them (even though it was only to North Ryde) from multiple site into 1 centralised hub ... what has to be taken into account was setting up all the telecomms for such a major move from multiple NOCs into one.

Sydney was poorly planned out in the beginning .... and due to it's massive boom that it had while it was developing .... it was more of a knee-jerk reaction when it came to road and rail ... and just as case of getting it in place for new areas to gain access.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

Sydney, Melb and Bris are congested. Well why not move the state capitals and virtually all the government employees to new cities thus spreading growth out. Bendigo or Ballarat would be the new Vic capital for example. Maybe Toowoomba for Qld? Newcastle for NSW?

This would be a boon for the town selected and help ease the congestion of these cities. I know the ACT government has about 22,000 employees...surely the NSW govt is much much larger. So moving those 10s of thousands of NSW employees is worth examination. It would also have a multiplying effect on the town's growth, so even more jobs would be created to support the new government departments.

Will cost a fortune.

How about just make all public servants except the tiny percentage who have direct contact with people who work for a living work night shift, 9pm to 5am so they do not impede the real people who actually make the economy.

And at the same time move the whole of Canberra up to the north of WA between Derby and Wyndam. That might help the mushrooms understand that Australia is a bit bigger than they think and would probably increase focus on some of the areas in defence that have been ignored for the last few decades......

[flooded one]

bad idea for toowoomba too be the capital of queensland at this stage. toowoomba needs better infrastructure then what it has. even thou its not as big as brisbane the congestion throught town along the warrego highway in the afternoon is appaling. it really does need a bypass as it would take alot of the "through toowoomba" traffic of the road away from toowoomba and stop people winging about trucks who have no choice but too go through here. It would need another dam. something that isnt popular but too substain a growing population here it needs it. there are other things as well (hospitals etc that would need too built) but over time i think it could work

[Shonky.]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

Sydney, Melb and Bris are congested. Well why not move the state capitals and virtually all the government employees to new cities thus spreading growth out. Bendigo or Ballarat would be the new Vic capital for example. Maybe Toowoomba for Qld? Newcastle for NSW?

This would be a boon for the town selected and help ease the congestion of these cities. I know the ACT government has about 22,000 employees...surely the NSW govt is much much larger. So moving those 10s of thousands of NSW employees is worth examination. It would also have a multiplying effect on the town's growth, so even more jobs would be created to support the new government departments.

sure, let's do it

who's paying?

[tranquilized]

Its a good idea, but not a new one.

Whitlam tried it in the 70's, then the government changed and it never happend...

Originally Posted by wikipedia

Albury-Wodonga was selected as the primary focus of the federal Whitlam government's scheme to arrest the uncontrolled growth of Australia's large coastal cities (Sydney and Melbourne in particular) by encouraging decentralisation. Grand plans were made to turn Albury-Wodonga into a major inland city. Some industries were enticed to move there, and a certain amount of population movement resulted. However, due to the subsequent Fraser Government's repudiation of Labor's decentralisation policies, the plan to populate inland areas and cities other than the State capitals, was abandoned. No other Commonwealth Government since, either conservative or Labor, has made any attempt at repopulating inland areas. Thus the current Albury-Wodonga population of approximately 104,609 residents is far below the 300,000 projected by Whitlam in the 1970s, a figure unlikely to ever be realised.

[flooded one]

I remember years ago they said toowoomba would have a population of 208,000 by 2008. never happened and a good thing it didn't. we where in a very bad drought that seen our water supply litterally dwindling.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Improve public transport....... (more services, and make it cheaper).

When I lived out west a 5 day rail pass to go to work was the same cost as a tank of fuel.... So, I would sacrifice speed, freedom and comfort to save zip. No thanks.

And every day, you would see tens of thousands of cars on the way to work with a single person within the cabin.

Most of the great mega cities of the world seem to get it right, why can't we??

Still waiting for that travel card / pass... what are we up to now?? 1/4 Billion 'invested'?????

Bloody joke.

[Nikked]

-high speed rail between population centers in citeis (ie parramatta into city etc)

-More reliance on Rail Frieght, set up distribution centers where trucks operate from, like here in tamworth we have a Rail/road facility. Goods could be railed up from Syd/newcastle to here then put on trucks.

-'Seachange' insentives, Cheap rent, tax cuts etc

[turbodewd]

I cant see it costing too much. It would be great for spreading out economic growth. It would have to be done gradually obviously because 100s and 1000s of people moving to a new area would need to find housing.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Getting all the unroadworthy bombs of the road would be a good start.... As for the public servants let them work from home, won't make a spot of difference to their producitivity because they have none.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

I cant see it costing too much. It would be great for spreading out economic growth. It would have to be done gradually obviously because 100s and 1000s of people moving to a new area would need to find housing.

Toowoomba couldn't accomodate it with the mining sector already moving in.

[FCleader]

Moving government services from Brisbane to Toowoomba is a bit of a joke, no offense. It's only what, 2 or 3 hours from Brisbane the majority of the state would still be neglected.

What I believe would be doable and help to increase attention on regional towns and cities, is do what Anna Bligh did (for a little while) and have parliament up in Townsville, maybe for 6 months of a year. While moving some major government services up there (call centres etc.).

Although come to think of it, I do remember a story in the Townsville Bulletin about a new government building being planned for 1,000 government workers.

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au...9825_news.html

[GTP owner]

Easy solution is to increase the price of petrol to $10 per litre. You would see most people finding alternative means of transport, including public transport, walking and bike riding. You would also see people either moving closer to their work, or changing work to be closer.
It's not a popular solution, but it would work....

[mik]

i can`t speak for Sydney although i suspect half the problem the town planning is just inadequate for the population and without thinking of the future , much like Melbourne!
the Melbourne central road system at peak times is often in a state of slowness, traffic jams and roadwork alterations, upgrade is good , but it seems to me rather than bite the bullet and plan ahead for population growth of 10/20 years time, they only build for slight improvements which are only barely adequate for the time being.

i reckon the commuter trains are a major let down in the system at peak times, the rail operators seem to buy trains with a few less seats hoping that more people crammed in standing up is a good thing(no wonder no one want`s to use the system), they put on a few more services to an already tight time table that is doomed to fail at some point.

one of the things i can`t understand is why the Melbourne trains only have 6 carriages , surely putting more carriages on would make a huge difference? yes i understand they need to have platforms and infrastructure but give it tens years, add another million people ,if they don`t start thinking bigger it will be worse than it is now,

The last thing is the 177 rail crossings dotted around Melbourne, these are major pain for traffic hold ups, they need to go under ground full stop , railway car parks need to be better , people should be happy to go by rail rather than use it as a last resort, how are they going to pay for fixing it up how it needs to be ..... i don`t know.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by GTP owner

Easy solution is to increase the price of petrol to $10 per litre. You would see most people finding alternative means of transport, including public transport, walking and bike riding. You would also see people either moving closer to their work, or changing work to be closer.
It's not a popular solution, but it would work....

Has it worked for smokes and booze?

[GTP owner]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Has it worked for smokes and booze?

Yes - increasing the cost of smokes is associated with a measurable decline in smoking rates. The same is true for alcohol, but until a fixed unit-price is introduced, people shift to another type of alcohol that is cheaper.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by GTP owner

Easy solution is to increase the price of petrol to $10 per litre.

Lynch mob meeting around the corner from GTP owner's house. All welcome.
BYO sack of doorknobs.

[GTP owner]

Originally Posted by b2tf

Lynch mob meeting around the corner from GTP owner's house. All welcome.
BYO sack of doorknobs.

Good luck....

I put the suggestion there because building bigger freeways, bigger carpark&network does not work. All it does is encourage people to use the public transport system less, walk less and ride less. People will also live further away from their place of work, and travel greater distances if it is cheap and easy to do so. A classic example is the eastern freeway in victoria when it was first built. It just allowed far more people to travel a greater distance, meaning more people on the road and no change in traffic congestion. If anything it concentrated it evenmore. Making people pay LOTS more for using their car forces them to find alternatives.

[66FAIRLANE]

Make public transport free.

Oh, and good.

[Polyal]

Oh god the eastern FWY..what a joke, Im on the west and do my up most to bypass the ring road and most times of the day aswell.

We always go on about better public transport, reliability would help aswell.

It would be nice to perhaps use some of the infrastructure thats already around, what about a monorail above the major freeways? Sure you will lose say a lane or so on both sides but if its cost effective to use then why not.

If I could catch a train and get to uni on time I would. I tried it for a semester but i had to leave at 6am to make a 9AM class and wouldnt get home until 8PM...thats if everything was on time...no thanks. Its a 1.5 hour car trip each way that turns into an epic if you want to catch public transport.

Enter LPG.

[trippytaka]

That would be great. Unfortunately government sectors are some of the most regulated highly unionised workforces in the country.

You're talking about workers who will not, and are not allowed to work overtime - without pay. They have set hours - and it's very hard to get anyone to work past 5! They get more holidays, rostered days off (WTF??? in 2012!) and almost double the parental leave than the private sector.

Performance reviews etc are like walking on eggshells, and you can't sack someone - or even send an official written warning! - without having internal meetings and escalations that involve counselling and mediation.

It's a joke! I know all this because my fiance's family all work for government departments.

So, up-rooting them and shifting the entire workforce to a regional location is going to be tough to say the least. Legal action from the unions, strikes that would bring down government departments etc... we're locked into mediocrity!

When it comes to private companies, NSW tried to do this with Parramatta and it failed. Companies are prepared to pay extra for the percieved "prestige" that comes with an address. It's about branding and brand perception.

Another problem, that not many people see, is that the high paid execs these companies want to attract can't stomach living in an address outside Sydney - preferrably lower north shore, eastern suburbs etc. Very sad, very pathetic, but also very true. Top execs that move to Bella Vista for access to the business park generally have living subsidies and loadings added to their multi million dollar salaries. I know some execs who took the money and then moved back to Mosman etc after a few months because their families just can't cope with it. No joke.

Another problem is the travel time between the cities. Most service companies (design, ad, marketing, law, accounts etc) need to meet with clients regularly. The move would need to be heavily compensated in order to absorb a loading that the service insuctries would then charge.

It's a nightmare.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by 66FAIRLANE

Make public transport free.

If they were serious about being green etc then yes I agree.

Sure nothing is free so someone has to pay the bills, but I would love to see it trailed for a month or so to see what effect it would have.

But as above, they seem to have enough issues with the current demand/system.

[Polyal]

Can people lay off public servants, its OT anyway, but I know many that do put in hard hours and even get asked by the public to be seen by them when they come into a center.

Working for centerlink they cop abuse just like the police, and they have zero power...it aint a picnic thats for sure. And the majority of the private companies I work for give the same time in leu, leave etc as the gov..its just small business that doesnt and cant afford it.

[mik]

Originally Posted by GTP owner

Good luck....

I put the suggestion there because building bigger freeways, bigger carpark&network does not work. All it does is encourage people to use the public transport system less, walk less and ride less. People will also live further away from their place of work, and travel greater distances if it is cheap and easy to do so. A classic example is the eastern freeway in victoria when it was first built. It just allowed far more people to travel a greater distance, meaning more people on the road and no change in traffic congestion. If anything it concentrated it evenmore. Making people pay LOTS more for using their car forces them to find alternatives.

yes but the problem is the public transport system is a disaster at peak times , how is overloading it further going to make it better without substantial upgrading, the road network is not to badly laid out in Melbourne , but the bottle necks and over crowding of area`s on either public transport or road system is a problem, neither one on their own is able to cope.
people don`t mind using the rail if it`s not painful, but it sucks that`s the problem.

[SB076]

Originally Posted by GTP owner

Yes - increasing the cost of smokes is associated with a measurable decline in smoking rates. The same is true for alcohol, but until a fixed unit-price is introduced, people shift to another type of alcohol that is cheaper.

I would suggest based on my very small sample size of mates who do smoke that they all try to quit for health reasons, they havent tried to quit because of monetrary issues (even though they do have them) I work with a lot of smokers and some are doing it tough (financially) and even though they know if they stop smoking they will get an extra $100+ per week they wont give them up.

Edit: If public transport was free I still wouldnt use it (no way I can get from work to home in a relatively short period of time)

[rancidpunx]

Make everyone in retail start at 11 and finish in the evening.

In Brisbane they need to get rid of the transit lanes as they create congestion. Stop spending money on tunnels for cars and start on mass transit in the form of world leading subway systems. Public transport needs to provide a good service, be reliable and cheap.
They need to do something now in Brisbane as its getting worse as the months go by.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by GTP owner

Easy solution is to increase the price of petrol to $10 per litre. You would see most people finding alternative means of transport, including public transport, walking and bike riding. You would also see people either moving closer to their work, or changing work to be closer.
It's not a popular solution, but it would work....

This has to be the worst idea listed so far.
Bus, rail and airplane companies would then make there fares 10x more expensive.

It would cost $10,000 to travel on a long haul flight.
Plumbers, lecos, builders and anyone else who drives to your house to perform a service would up their fees by 500% so they can afford to stay in business.
Then no one would do anything on days off because it costs to much to drive.

[Polyal]

GTP owner is in TAS remember, so no traffic and close to no public transport . Just poking a stick, but it is true, I was shocked when I heard TAS doesnt have a commuter train line running down the guts even though there is commercial train freight IIRC. All about demand I guess.

[tranquilized]

I think Melbourne has outgrown its trams. Traffic holds trams up and trams hold traffic up - and its only going to get worse.

Sydney, and more so Melbourne, lack what every other large major city around the world has - a decent subway system. Its beyond pathetic that in 2012, all Melbourne has is the city loop and barely even any talk of building a subway system.

Add in the fact that this state is run by developers who are continually allowed to build what ever they want where ever they want in a completely market driven building industry without even a hint of planning, and yeah, Melbourne's commuters are in for a lot of hurt.