Holden Profit

[prydey]

Originally Posted by burnz

ford went of the sales of mondeo,

i doubt it.

[XRDeeze]

Good on Holden, Why doesn't Ford follow their course? and begs the Question , Why Doesnt Ford Australia Export their cars to Asian Countries or even America? Despite the Costs I think it'll be more gains then loses in the long run?

[Resurrection]

Wonderful how Australian taxpayer dollars have made the difference to Holden's bottom line.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by burnz

ford went of the sales of mondeo, not enough for a case for making local...
holden did the same with cruze, and the sales justified it.

local economies of scale.

You also forgot to add government support, I'd say Ford never envisaged getting as much for Focus production from the Feds as Holden actually got for Cruze.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Wonderful how Australian taxpayer dollars have made the difference to Holden's bottom line.

I always assumed Holden workers were taxpayers too. Seems as though I assumed wrong.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

I always assumed Holden workers were taxpayers too. Seems as though I assumed wrong.

I am sure the figures prove you wrong. Whats Holden costing australians ? circa $100 million a year in direct cash, and approx. an additional $300 miilion ($1 billion /3) in extra costs for import tarriffs. 2400 production workers costing other australians $400 million a year ($166,000 per worker), sound more like tax suckers than tax payers.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

They are making 90 million on approx 125,000 sales, which comes to about $720 a car. But then again, Holden do say in one breath that the cruze is making them money, and that import only brands have better pricing abilities than they do. So I suspect that the picture looks alot worse for the money making abilities of the cruze and commodore. One would suspect that imports are better options for them than local made, so lets assume the 47,000 non local cars they sold last year made $1500 profit each car for them, that would make $70 million. Then lets allocate $100 for each engine, that would be $10 million, and the most profitable section for all manufacturers (spare parts), we could add another $30 to 40 million. Its all guess work, but theres no reason that cruze and commodore production could still be losing Holden over $100 million a year (without the government handouts). And lets no forget that it was Deveraux who said that Holden is not viable unless they are making 105,000 cars a year (only made 90,000 last year). Holdens stories change with the winds, but one thing is for sure, oddly taxpayers would think it better to give money to a business that is making money, than one that is continually losing money.

Holden only makes $720/car?


The real question is how much money the rest of GM makes off supplying Australia with cars and parts...

Follow the money....

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

They are making 90 million on approx 125,000 sales, which comes to about $720 a car. But then again, Holden do say in one breath that the cruze is making them money, and that import only brands have better pricing abilities than they do. So I suspect that the picture looks alot worse for the money making abilities of the cruze and commodore. One would suspect that imports are better options for them than local made, so lets assume the 47,000 non local cars they sold last year made $1500 profit each car for them, that would make $70 million. Then lets allocate $100 for each engine, that would be $10 million, and the most profitable section for all manufacturers (spare parts), we could add another $30 to 40 million. Its all guess work, but theres no reason that cruze and commodore production could still be losing Holden over $100 million a year (without the government handouts). And lets no forget that it was Deveraux who said that Holden is not viable unless they are making 105,000 cars a year (only made 90,000 last year). Holdens stories change with the winds, but one thing is for sure, oddly taxpayers would think it better to give money to a business that is making money, than one that is continually losing money.

But they also export engines, so considering the money they make off that the profit they make per car would be even lower. Plus money made selling parts, merchandise etc.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

But they also export engines, so considering the money they make off that the profit they make per car would be even lower. Plus money made selling parts, merchandise etc.

A lot of money is repatriated back through other GM divisions through royalties, licensing fees, interest on loans etc

[HUNTER8]

What jpd80 (correct me if I'm wrong) is that you can't look at Holden Australia's profit as a stand alone item without looking at the total GM goups position.
With a global company it's easy to "launder" money from one country to another. For example they could be paying Holden US a royalty on using the Cruze design, extra for parts/imports or any expense that they see fit.
Holden US has $30b in carry forward losses that they can write off profits against and pay no tax. Alternately they can put the profit into a country where the taxes are less.
So Holdens profit/turnover is only a small part of the equation.
The cynical ones amongst us would suggest that Holdens "profit" is merely a lever to get government support.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

I am sure the figures prove you wrong. Whats Holden costing australians ? circa $100 million a year in direct cash, and approx. an additional $300 miilion ($1 billion /3) in extra costs for import tarriffs. 2400 production workers costing other australians $400 million a year ($166,000 per worker), sound more like tax suckers than tax payers.

Then you've go businesses that deal directly with Holden....Businesses that survive due to Holdens existance, that don't surply parts to them... There's been nurmerous discussions on the businesses round the area that rely on this company holding it's doors open.

Then again, yep Holden are tax suckers, so it'd be better off having a few more hundred thousand on gov't handouts as a result of the company shutting the doors.

[Joe5619]

Well done Holden.. A profit is a profit!!

I just hope Ford makes a profit too, otherwise the journalist are going to have a field day if Ford losses money & there beloved Holden has made a profit!!

[TMC]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

A small profit is better than a small loss, regardless of the business.

So it's a step in the right direction.

In the short term yes. But if you made a small profit or just broke even for 20 years lets say, then what's the point being in business. Same thing if you make 10 years of small profits which are offset by 10 years of small losses. I wouldn't invest in a business like that, as it's future looks shaky. The only reason the Gov has kept injecting money into companies like Holden is for political reasons. It's merely a prop to hold the walls up from collapsing.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Well done Holden.. A profit is a profit!!

I just hope Ford makes a profit too, otherwise the journalist are going to have a field day if Ford losses money & there beloved Holden has made a profit!!

I agree 100%.....as long as we continue to have vehicle industries here

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by TMC

In the short term yes. But if you made a small profit or just broke even for 20 years lets say, then what's the point being in business. Same thing if you make 10 years of small profits which are offset by 10 years of small losses. I wouldn't invest in a business like that, as it's future looks shaky. The only reason the Gov has kept injecting money into companies like Holden is for political reasons. It's merely a prop to hold the walls up from collapsing.

The gov't might be doing that, but the number of people that rely on their doors staying open is staggering. It's not only the 2,000 plus Holden employees that reply on that company. It's many thousands more.

Personally, I can see the reason the gov't would be "propping" the business up, is because they are getting more tax payers dollars from everyone associated directly and indirectly from thatt company, so it's worth their while.

We can then add in, having a car maker still producing cars, which means more aussie cars on our roads and less imports. That can only be a good thing. I would hate to see another car manufacturer close in this country.

[XRDeeze]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business...-1226350896748

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by TMC

In the short term yes. But if you made a small profit or just broke even for 20 years lets say, then what's the point being in business. Same thing if you make 10 years of small profits which are offset by 10 years of small losses. I wouldn't invest in a business like that, as it's future looks shaky. The only reason the Gov has kept injecting money into companies like Holden is for political reasons. It's merely a prop to hold the walls up from collapsing.

It's not how much money you appear to make in Australia that counts but,
what business is being generated for other Ford regions like FAPA and FoE.
Follow the money, Ford says its all gone....but gone where?

[XRDeeze]

News doesn't get any better

[TMC]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

The gov't might be doing that, but the number of people that rely on their doors staying open is staggering. It's not only the 2,000 plus Holden employees that reply on that company. It's many thousands more.

Personally, I can see the reason the gov't would be "propping" the business up, is because they are getting more tax payers dollars from everyone associated directly and indirectly from thatt company, so it's worth their while.

We can then add in, having a car maker still producing cars, which means more aussie cars on our roads and less imports. That can only be a good thing. I would hate to see another car manufacturer close in this country.

I agree with you. I was taking a harsh emotionless business assessment of the situation. But I would hate to see a local manufacturer cease because it's always bad when that happens. The flow on to families and those who battle hard would be huge if Holden or Ford shut local production. The problem is the situation in Australia in the 40's and 50's is different to the current market. Back then we cared about local manufacturing and having people employed. By the 80's the government encouraged imports by changes in legislation and this put a strain on the local car manufacturers that didn't exist before. So we have a situation now that does not encourage local manufacturing. A shame really. I'm not a fan of globalisation. Globalisation and free trade agreements are always sold to us as a means of increased trade and more jobs but they often mean more jobs offshore. In Australia we could virtually ignore the rest of the world and do it all ourselves. That was the way in the 40's, 50's and 60's in Australia, but now we are around 22 million in about 7 billion others.

[babyf6]

Originally Posted by HUNTER8

Love the headline though on the SMH link.
'Taxpayers fund Holden Profit".

Sounds about right

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by TMC

I agree with you. I was taking a harsh emotionless business assessment of the situation. But I would hate to see a local manufacturer cease because it's always bad when that happens. The flow on to families and those who battle hard would be huge if Holden or Ford shut local production. The problem is the situation in Australia in the 40's and 50's is different to the current market. Back then we cared about local manufacturing and having people employed. By the 80's the government encouraged imports by changes in legislation and this put a strain on the local car manufacturers that didn't exist before. So we have a situation now that does not encourage local manufacturing. A shame really. I'm not a fan of globalisation. Globalisation and free trade agreements are always sold to us as a means of increased trade and more jobs but they often mean more jobs offshore. In Australia we could virtually ignore the rest of the world and do it all ourselves. That was the way in the 40's, 50's and 60's in Australia, but now we are around 22 million in about 7 billion others.

I see where you're coming from, but in business, there are years of losses and years of profit....This year happens to be a year of profit for Holden, where as the past couple have been losses. So it's a case of taking the good with the bad.....

BTW, I do agree with what you're saying.

[Nikked]

2010: $112 million net profit
2009: $211 million net loss
2008: $70 million net loss
2007: $6 million net loss
2006: $147 million net loss
2005: $145 million net loss
2004: $216 million net profit
2003: $287 million net profit
2002: $257 million net profit
2001: $285 million net profit
2000: $135 million net profit

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by Nikked

2010: $112 million net profit
2009: $211 million net loss
2008: $70 million net loss
2007: $6 million net loss
2006: $147 million net loss
2005: $145 million net loss
2004: $216 million net profit
2003: $287 million net profit
2002: $257 million net profit
2001: $285 million net profit
2000: $135 million net profit

Approximately 700 million profit over 10 years, so it makes it a profitable business overall....

I can't/won't try and explain why they went for the gov't handout, but judging by those figures I can understand why the gov't would think it's a worthwhile investment.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Approximately 700 million profit over 10 years, so it makes it a profitable business overall....

I can't/won't try and explain why they went for the gov't handout, but judging by those figures I can understand why the gov't would think it's a worthwhile investment.

Near on $30 billion in local product revenue over the past 10 years, quite a sizable chunk of revenue.