Life for a Life ?

[WMD351]

The young guy who kills the old pervert who fiddled with him when he was a kid?
The battered wife who was beaten to a bloody pulp and abused every day of her life for decades before she snapped and killed her partner?
I'm of course not saying that they did the right thing, but what are their chances of reoffending (I have no idea myself) and what benefit comes from giving them life or putting them to death?
I've got no source for it, but I've heard many times that murderers are known by their victims well over 50% of the time (quick search suggests the % is from 60 - 80% but has no evidence or proof).
How many people in jail for murder are people who never committed a previous crime in their life, maybe never would again, but at one point in time they made a mistake?

Now naturally I'm not suggesting that these people can in any way be compared to a paid hit man or recidavist violent offender with a life long criminal record, but this issue is a long way away from having a black and white yes/no answer, in my opinion anyway.

[Jim Goose]

Mass murderers, serial killers.. those that do it for the "thrill" can easily be added to the "remove from the planet" list....

As for other "murders", its a very hard call.

However sentancing and the justice system does need a complete overhaul and there seems to be no consistancy with convictions these days.

[GTP owner]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

However sentancing and the justice system does need a complete overhaul and there seems to be no consistancy with convictions these days.

What would you suggest the judicial system be replaced with? I am no expert on our system, but i do think we have a better one than china, north korea, and russia.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by GTP owner

What would you suggest the judicial system be replaced with? I am no expert on our system, but i do think we have a better one than china, north korea, and russia.

Ah and how did the comparison with china, north korea and russia come into this???

How about "minimum" sentances be standard around Australia? We are one nation after all.....

How about people actually go to jail for serious assaults instead of being let off with a warning?

What about community magistrates? seeing as how the magistrates we have now appear to be very out of touch with the communities expectations?

How about THE VICTIMS of crime become the center of attension instead of all the money being spent on the criminal?

Our justice system has swung to favour the criminal in case you havent noticed....

There are plenty of countries with harsh penalties and a so called "fair system". Look at the USA where you can be shackled in chains for 2 weeks and NOT BE charged with a crime in most US states.

In singapore you can get caned for littering

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by Ducati888

...and as we move on, lets clear society first of murderers. They serve no purpose and cost money to keep. Then, um, how about the mentally ill? They can't work and are a financial burden. Lets sweep them under the rug and forget about them. Now, who's next? Oh, disabled people. They cost us lots of money because of those expensive chairs and ramps. Time for them to go. The unemployed? They don't pay tax. They take welfare payements. How much to they cost us? They have to go too.

Now that we have a perfect society of fit, employed, taxpaying productive people, um hangon a minute.

If im not mistaken ,wasnt there a dictator many years ago who tried to create a perfect productive world ???
Deleting (for a better word) certain types of people, deleting those with major disabilities,creating certain types of people as well ???
Guess it didnt work then ,and itll never work now ...

As for the disabled people, not sure if you know but there are many who become disabled for various reasons in their life,maybe from an illness,an accident,,so along your line of thinking,IF you became disabled in your life time for whatever the reason , it would be fair you would be "deleted" ???

[Streets]

Don't think ducati was being serious.

[BHDOGS]

It's quite simple really the current system doesn't work it will inspire vigilante justice I personaly know for a fact i would kill somebody If they did something bad enough to a family member simple really u can argue the facts all you want makes no difference to me eye for an eye is law in my eyes already I don't respect the justice system we have and will bring out my own punishment this is for murder rape ect not for stealing my car or calling me a nasty name so don't bother going there. Capital punishment is an ending it stops someone from doing it again the current system just allows crimes repeatedly how many people have to be hurt before we put them away for life and life isn't even life these days anyway it's usually 15 years what's your family's life worth is the call you gotta make as an individual the justice system will never replace my own values regardless of what anyone else thinks

[MarkAW]

Your wasting your time with re-introducing capital punishment into Australia. Firstly it would require a revamp of the current British style system as you would never get a conviction from a jury if the possibility of execution existed.

If this was the case in Au, a single Judge would pass sentence after a guilty verdict by the jury. The Judge would not be compelled to advise the jury of the likelyhood of an execution sentence therefore the jury is more likely to give a not guilty verdict rather than risk an incorrect finding.

In the end we would let more killers run free than we are doing now.

[Baron.LSN]

I think that it should definitely be a life sentence in hard prison for crimes that are proven beyond any doubt, and which illustrate certain aggravating factors (i.e. torture, capriciousness). Hard prison would be tiny cell, no amenities and isolation. Obviously not all 'murder' or 'manslaughter' is equal though, so a sentencing discretion is still required.

[Stagg]

I wouldn't agree that life for a life is the way to solve problems, because it only fixes the symptom, not the cause.

Everyones personality is moulded through the people and other influences around them. If someone murders another, what influenced them in the past to lead them to make immoral judgement?

Same principle goes with any black spots on society (drugs, smoking for example), that people know they are bad, but people still make poor judgement and make bad life choices. Whatever is influencing them to make poor life choices should be solved.

[GTP owner]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

It's quite simple really the current system doesn't work it will inspire vigilante justice I personaly know for a fact i would kill somebody If they did something bad enough to a family member simple really u can argue the facts all you want makes no difference to me eye for an eye is law in my eyes already I don't respect the justice system we have and will bring out my own punishment this is for murder rape ect not for stealing my car or calling me a nasty name so don't bother going there. Capital punishment is an ending it stops someone from doing it again the current system just allows crimes repeatedly how many people have to be hurt before we put them away for life and life isn't even life these days anyway it's usually 15 years what's your family's life worth is the call you gotta make as an individual the justice system will never replace my own values regardless of what anyone else thinks

I think that post is a crime against grammar

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Ah and how did the comparison with china, north korea and russia come into this???

How about "minimum" sentances be standard around Australia? We are one nation after all.....

How about people actually go to jail for serious assaults instead of being let off with a warning?

What about community magistrates? seeing as how the magistrates we have now appear to be very out of touch with the communities expectations?

How about THE VICTIMS of crime become the center of attension instead of all the money being spent on the criminal?

Our justice system has swung to favour the criminal in case you havent noticed....

There are plenty of countries with harsh penalties and a so called "fair system". Look at the USA where you can be shackled in chains for 2 weeks and NOT BE charged with a crime in most US states.

In singapore you can get caned for littering

I mentioned those countries because they provide an example of how a justice system can be so much different from ours, yet so much worse.

In regards minimum sentences - they are not liked very much as they are set by politicians, so are subject to popularity contests. A classic example is our hoon laws. These are far more strict than drink driving laws, yet have had no impact on road safety.

As for magistrates being out of touch with the community - how about getting to know some? Even better - follow a couple of court cases all the way through, read the sentencing reports, and see if you reach a similar conclusion to them. If you believe the popular media about sentencing, you will reach a far different conclusion than if you were actually there. There was a recent study done where they took regular citizens and had them do this. Their conclusions pretty much confirmed that the magistrates had it right. Yet when they went off what they read in the local rag, they would reach the indignant popularist view.

The last two examples - are you suggesting that the USA has it right? With a murder rate of around 28,000 per year from gun deaths alone?
And singapore? Where chewing gum will see you fined? If you like that kind of society, well, I can't say I do.

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Now the grey area is how do you make sure its 100%? .

when you get people like Anders Brevik.

[|||]

yeah the death sentence would deter anyone murdering someone else. just like how now the cops confiscate your car for hooning so noone hoons anymore.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by GTP owner

I mentioned those countries because they provide an example of how a justice system can be so much different from ours, yet so much worse.

In regards minimum sentences - they are not liked very much as they are set by politicians, so are subject to popularity contests. A classic example is our hoon laws. These are far more strict than drink driving laws, yet have had no impact on road safety.

There are laws aimed at hoons, but no hoon laws as such. Sorry I really hate that term being used.... and yes I agree, you can get your car taken away for certain offences, yet drink drive and your ok. Again there is no parity or consistancy..

Originally Posted by GTP owner

As for magistrates being out of touch with the community - how about getting to know some? Even better - follow a couple of court cases all the way through, read the sentencing reports, and see if you reach a similar conclusion to them. If you believe the popular media about sentencing, you will reach a far different conclusion than if you were actually there. There was a recent study done where they took regular citizens and had them do this. Their conclusions pretty much confirmed that the magistrates had it right. Yet when they went off what they read in the local rag, they would reach the indignant popularist view.

I have been to magistrates court once before and it was good for a giggle... but one wonders why people front a magistrate time and time again for the same thing, and never a conviction recorded? never a big fine or a jail term... just the usual slap on the wrist...

Originally Posted by GTP owner

The last two examples - are you suggesting that the USA has it right? With a murder rate of around 28,000 per year from gun deaths alone?
And singapore? Where chewing gum will see you fined? If you like that kind of society, well, I can't say I do.

Hell no the USA is a basket case.. and i was using it as a kinda compareson with the communist countries you mentioned... I dont see the USA as a shinning example at all when it comes to the laws over there... (i do love their constitution however).

I see a lot of people throw their rubbish on the ground and keep walking... and yes i hold back the urge to slap them. Same with smokers who throw their butts out the window of a car onto nice dry grass and cause fires.
Hand me the cane ill do it...

[el_wagon]

It should deter most people, if it doesn't deter them, then it will stop them from doing it again at least.

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by |||

yeah the death sentence would deter anyone murdering someone else. just like how now the cops confiscate your car for hooning so noone hoons anymore.

it's not just about deterrence. it's about natural justice also. 2 birds, one stone.

theft? chop....3 peoples hands off, guaranteed drop in theft rates.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

it's not just about deterrence. it's about natural justice also. 2 birds, one stone.

theft? chop....3 peoples hands off, guaranteed drop in theft rates.

absolutely , i remember being a boy , somethings i simply did not do because i was scared of the smack / or the slap, or the belt , or the getting picked up by the hair and thrown onto my bed .
let me say that was a big deterrant . same today , i'm not really going to do anything wrong in front of armed guards , or people who will hurt me now am i .
getting sent to my room accomplished nothing .

now if i were to face jail or getting both my hands chopped off for stealing . i think i know which one would deter me from stealing a little more .