Giving Australian jobs away

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

They should be forced by legislation to employ and train people...it's not like they don't get government subsidies to do it.

Are you mad......

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Are you mad......

It is quite common as a condition of mineral extraction around the world, companies have to put in place apprentice/training programs for locals before they are even allowed to take the mineral. Some go even further in forcing companies to build hospitals, towns etc. Australia is incredibly cheap to mine as we just let anyone rip the wealth out of the ground.

Amazingly its cheaper for Chinese companies to get coal from Australia than from China itself!

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Brazen

It is quite common as a condition of mineral extraction around the world, companies have to put in place apprentice/training programs for locals before they are even allowed to take the mineral. Some go even further in forcing companies to build hospitals, towns etc. Australia is incredibly cheap to mine as we just let anyone rip the wealth out of the ground.

Amazingly its cheaper for Chinese companies to get coal from Australia than from China itself!

I'm not exactly new to this....I have been in Mining (lived in Newman, Tom Price, Paraburdoo and Telfer, no FIFO) and the Offshore Oil and Gas since 81', my two brothers have been mining for 20 and 25 years, two of my nephews have recently started apprenticeships (Lecky and Heavy Diesel) with BHP, my Niece is a Geologist for another miner and my ex is 2IC of HR for one of the big miners based in Perth......plus many many friends in the industry.....

We were all trained at one point or another by the mining company(s) after doing the hard yards and getting a foot in door, legislation to force an employer in any industry to take just anyone who walks of the street and give them a job is ludicrous, but then again it will probably fit in nicely with today’s “I’m entitled to it society”........

[pottery beige]

some people are duds no matter how much training.. a head full of wet lettuce is still wet lettuce..

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by dimka100

You do realise that these mining projects are privately owned and funded? And you do realise that these privately owned companies solely exist to make a profit? You also probably realise that in a democratic country these privately owned businesses have the right to make the decisions on how to run their companies within the boundaries of the law? … Now just recently you slapped these companies with another massive tax, and yet you are surprised they are spitting in your face???

Seriously it just amazes me how Australians just expect the Government to hand them out jobs, money, security, health, education, ets … wake up, we don’t live in a communist country, we don’t divide wealth to the point that everyone is equal, we don’t have to give you just cause you are Australian … You know I migrated from a communist country, and that’s exactly how everyone thought there! Goes how well that turned out for everyone at the end …

yes its a great improvement today over there isnt it , heaps of work i hear , if your open minded .

[gtfpv]

unfortunately its true , there arent enough people to go there and do the work , skilled people are in demand around the country , they aint just going to pack up and leave thier long term carreers for about 30 grand more , for a short years , even if its 100k more .
others think they can do it but simply dont know what they are talking about .
lots of positive wishes turn into "i'm quitting " real quick .

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by b0son

If you're a white collar worker, you're expected to seek out and pay for your own training (eg. uni degree). Why do blue collars expect their employers to provide and pay for all the training?

Perhaps the problem is that while there are plenty of people who want to do the work, not enough of them are willing to get the qualifications themselves?

because lots of people like white collar work , they arent in huge demand . there are plenty of people willing to swap places from watching tv at home ,and texting friends, to watching poker games on a computor and texting foreman and contractors . you do have a point though , there is an element of danger . ( thrombosis ) diabetes , eyestrain and obesity .

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by dimka100

Well its simple really, I put on the table what I can offer, and someone else from overseas puts on the table what they have to offer ... the employer ultimately decides what best suits their business needs and makes a choice on whats best for their business ... I may get the job or I may not get the job ... but again I repeat, this does not mean that I'm entitled for anything, or that someone must give me a job, or that someone must pay me more money!

it does not mean you have to live here either , you can simply shut shop , go over and live in the same country as your competitors , and compete on an equal level as them , then everybody wins . even you .

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by flappist

There are heaps of people who work outside aircon in the Melbourne CBD in summer for less than $16/hr......

and there are probably a few jobs jobs going there , i can line you up for a few weeks work if your interested , its a great opportunity .

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by Polyal

What should alarm everyone is how much we are currently reliant on mining. Without it this country would be in strife right now...so its give and take a little.

your not wrong , so if our country is becoming a hole in the ground , we need to make sure the people who live here get the benifits of our limited profit opportunity , as we are losing out in almost every other area , we should not lose out in whats ours , the ground we walk on .

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by Maka

And who does the government consult with to draft new legislation? And who pumps a quarter of a billion of self interest lobby dollars into the politcal party coffers? Umm this situation is exploited by certain parties and until this situation/law changes things will get worse not better.You can already see the effects of this in other economic sectors and consumer buying patterns. Greed is a sickness not a right...

ps, Attorney General Nicola Roxon is trying to bring in laws to diminish transperancy when it come to politician's lerks & perks as reported on the ABC's News 24 the Drum on Monday night......You wonder why people get agitated when they hear this sort of thing.


cheers,Maka

and finally , someone who speaks the truth . WELL DONE MAKA . i like you post .

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

I'm not exactly new to this....I have been in Mining (lived in Newman, Tom Price, Paraburdoo and Telfer, no FIFO) and the Offshore Oil and Gas since 81', my two brothers have been mining for 20 and 25 years, two of my nephews have recently started apprenticeships (Lecky and Heavy Diesel) with BHP, my Niece is a Geologist for another miner and my ex is 2IC of HR for one of the big miners based in Perth......plus many many friends in the industry.....

We were all trained at one point or another by the mining company(s) after doing the hard yards and getting a foot in door, legislation to force an employer in any industry to take just anyone who walks of the street and give them a job is ludicrous, but then again it will probably fit in nicely with today’s “I’m entitled to it society”........

I am not talking about entitlement, I am talking about the mostly Indian, Japanese and Chinese mining firms paying their fair share.

At the moment at $155 a tonne for coal, Australia receives about $7.50. Coal production is profitable at a prices of $20 a tonne. The sheer scale of wealth being ripped out of the ground is staggering.

Canada has a 25% royalty, Saudia Arabia 80%. In Africa they have nationalised the mines. Its scary that all of Saudi Arabia's weath comes from minerals, so much so that they have no income tax, sales tax, and fuel exise.

Yet Australia with much more mineral wealth than Saudi Arabia is one of the most taxed nations on the planet. The boom here isn't simply because people have decided to start buying more Australian resources, the boom is here because we are basically giving it away.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Yet Australia with much more mineral wealth than Saudi Arabia is one of the most taxed nations on the planet. The boom here isn't simply because people have decided to start buying more Australian resources, the boom is here because we are basically giving it away.

Well glad to see at least someone understands this as well!

What was truely sad was how the "mining tax" (which was stupidly labelled by people who had an agenda) was a tax on HUGE PROFITS and yet it was shouted down so loudly it made me cringe.

Once we (Australia) run out of minerals for large companies to plunder what are we left with? A large hole in the ground. Currently we are ripping up farm/ grazing land all for mining and everyone thinks thats ok to!

Truely we are so short sighted in this nation that people put "profits/ shares/ $100grand wages" before the good of nation.... I cant wait till we have to import 100% all our fruit/veges and meat products because we cant grow anything here anymore.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Well glad to see at least someone understands this as well!

What was truely sad was how the "mining tax" (which was stupidly labelled by people who had an agenda) was a tax on HUGE PROFITS and yet it was shouted down so loudly it made me cringe.

Once we (Australia) run out of minerals for large companies to plunder what are we left with? A large hole in the ground. Currently we are ripping up farm/ grazing land all for mining and everyone thinks thats ok to!

Truely we are so short sighted in this nation that people put "profits/ shares/ $100grand wages" before the good of nation.... I cant wait till we have to import 100% all our fruit/veges and meat products because we cant grow anything here anymore.

Whilst I understand the intention of the mining tax - it just such a stupid and inefficient way of going about it.

Simply put the mining tax will make us worse off longer term. Under the mining tax companies need to:

• earning over 50mill in profit - fine, the companies will make just a lot of small entities that fit under the threshold.
  
• Can depreciate mining equipment over an effective life of..... just 4 years. 12 million dollar dump trucks are giving massive deductions.
  
• Mining companies can revalue there capital write-offs each year. One Indian company built a pipeline for 1 billion, next year they re-valued it at 2bill meaning they can depreciate it more... in some cases the tax saved has been more than what the item originally cost to build.
  
• The mining tax favours income expense over capital expense - so it is more tax effective to fly in workers than it is to build infrastucture in local communities.

What they should of done is simply let the states increase royalties. There easy and not manipualted. Instead the Commonwealth has said it will reduce GST allocations to states who even think about rising royalties on tonnage mined.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

I'm not exactly new to this....I have been in Mining (lived in Newman, Tom Price, Paraburdoo and Telfer, no FIFO) and the Offshore Oil and Gas since 81', my two brothers have been mining for 20 and 25 years, two of my nephews have recently started apprenticeships (Lecky and Heavy Diesel) with BHP, my Niece is a Geologist for another miner and my ex is 2IC of HR for one of the big miners based in Perth......plus many many friends in the industry.....

We were all trained at one point or another by the mining company(s) after doing the hard yards and getting a foot in door, legislation to force an employer in any industry to take just anyone who walks of the street and give them a job is ludicrous, but then again it will probably fit in nicely with today’s “I’m entitled to it society”........

I am not talking about entitlement, I am talking about the mostly Indian, Japanese and Chinese mining firms paying their fair share.

At the moment at $155 a tonne for coal, Australia receives about $7.50. Coal production is profitable at a prices of $20 a tonne. The sheer scale of wealth being ripped out of the ground is staggering.

Canada has a 25% royalty, Saudia Arabia 80%. In Africa they have nationalised the mines. Its scary that all of Saudi Arabia's weath comes from minerals, so much so that they have no income tax, sales tax, and fuel exise.

Yet Australia with much more mineral wealth than Saudi Arabia is one of the most taxed nations on the planet. The boom here isn't simply because people have decided to start buying more Australian resources, the boom is here because we are basically giving it away.

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I'm an apprentice, going 3rd year soon so I'll be on my way to be getting trade qualified. I also actually work in manufacturing here in Victoria, smaller scale though, probably 30 people employed.

You can already do mining training at your expense, you've got endless inductions and courses you can do, a HR license is pretty essential, first aid etc.

I'm waiting until I get signed off on my apprenticeship before I up and leave, as I've nearly finished TAFE over a year early. I'm also not interested in doing my trade over there, I'd rather an unskilled role, probably cleaner, etc.



From 1 July, employers can sponsor foreign skilled workers for PR (permanent redency) visas at minimum award wages, rather than genuine market rates under collective agreements – an open invitation to low-rent employers to bring in more cheap labour.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politi...518-1yuh3.html

Is the guy the wrote than opinion the National Secretary CFMEU?


Here's a link to the actual documents on the Dimmi website for company sponsored PR's (Permanent Residency) -
http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/skill...ed-reforms.pdf

Basically, three ways to get in -

Employer Nomination Scheme (ENS)
Regional Sponsored Migration Scheme (RSMS)
Labour Agreements program.

First two require paying market rates.

Last one is possibly what Noonan is talking about. In typical misinformation, he hasn't provided to full detail as it doesn't suit his agenda. Here it is -

A labour agreement is a formal arrangement negotiated between an employer
and the Australian Government and will only be considered where genuine
skills shortage exists and there are no suitably qualified or experienced
Australians readily available.

First two are cut and dry. Last one to me suggests there has to be a proven skill shortage. In order to do this, advertisements for these jobs would presumably need to be placed in Aust.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I am not talking about entitlement, I am talking about the mostly Indian, Japanese and Chinese mining firms paying their fair share.

At the moment at $155 a tonne for coal, Australia receives about $7.50. Coal production is profitable at a prices of $20 a tonne. The sheer scale of wealth being ripped out of the ground is staggering.

Canada has a 25% royalty, Saudi Arabia 80%. In Africa they have nationalised the mines. It’s scary that all of Saudi Arabia's wealth comes from minerals, so much so that they have no income tax, sales tax, and fuel excise.

Yet Australia with much more mineral wealth than Saudi Arabia is one of the most taxed nations on the planet. The boom here isn't simply because people have decided to start buying more Australian resources, the boom is here because we are basically giving it away.

Sorry mate i am not real good at reading subliminal messages, i thought you were talking about mining companies having to provide training etc and this is what i replied to, correct me if I'm wrong....

Originally Posted by Brazen

It is quite common as a condition of mineral extraction around the world, companies have to put in place apprentice/training programs for locals before they are even allowed to take the mineral. Some go even further in forcing companies to build hospitals, towns etc. Australia is incredibly cheap to mine as we just let anyone rip the wealth out of the ground.

Amazingly its cheaper for Chinese companies to get coal from Australia than from China itself!

Who do you think built the towns of Newman, Tom Price, Paraburdoo, Telfer, Dampier, Port Headland etc, and yes that includes the hospitals, schools, airports, sporting grounds, speedway tracks, horse racing tracks, golf courses, pubs and of course housing and all the infrastructure that goes into running a small town.............admittedly not all mines are the same, some are nothing more than satellite ore bodies that are either in the development stage or are so small that they would require nothing more than dongas, ablution blocks, mess and wet mess........nothing wrong with that, if you dont like it then don’t go......

[poppa smurf]

anyone sincerely interested in a mining career can find info at miningcareers.com

[wodahs]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

anyone sincerely interested in a mining career can find info at miningcareers.com

anyone truely sincere about these jobs would'nt be sulking i cant get in , they'd be finding a way , there is advertising out there if they look ( nobody put the add in front of me ) but you realy want to check out the job/life stile compleatly

and there is companies that provide experiance and pay you while you train , yes these are at normal base rates of pay insted of good mine sit pay
there is bout 8 of these in wa , two that come to mind at moment are westrac w.a
and piercintinies (may not be spelt right a real odd name ) dardanup near bunbury
and they can also supply your tickets to

p.s. training and experiance wont happen over nite and if your not able to stick to it it isnt eveyone elses fault and no the world doesnt owe you a free ride to what you want