New Clutch $1430 from Ford: rip off?

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I know full well what it costs to run a small business, I have my own as does most of the people in my family. But dont' try the BS line with me that the 'extras' you quote above justify an extra $180 an hr... from what I hear even the top mechanic in a service department will be on circa $20an hr......

REMEMBER... I'm not making the rate up. I'm going by the official Ford documents and website for prices and times.. And if Ford claim that they are charging $110ph for labour that very much contradicts their own pricing structure perhaps they have bigger things to worry about.

Everyone knows dealer profits are in servicing... what else would you expect but to inflate prices???

There was a thread in the Pub recently about $110 an hr charged by Ford, and how that was seen as over the top by many.

It seems a justification for the overcharging is that fact they are a 'big business'... high overheads, lots of workers etc etc etc... hang on, isn't this a reason why costs per hr should be actually lower?? Why is a large meal at McDonalds $10 yet a similar meal at a take away shop the same or more?? Why is the model different when we are talking about cars??

Seems the service side of things is done much like a production line as well... must make it more costly doing it that way???

If you notice, dealerships are situated in prime real estate locations, which command BIG dollars in associated rates. Rates also vary depending on the area they're located in too. (Notice how they're mostly on main thoroughfare roads?) Small businesses aren't located on big blocks, so prices aren't as bad.

Fair enough you and your family are small businesses people, but your overheads are "chicken feed" in relation to these dealerships.

Work cover costs go up, when ever claims are made, especially in this field.....This field is also well known for regular claims being made, especially on backs, arms and legs. They also have to factor in, paying for workers being off for weeks at a time as a result....

Then you add in, the training they have to undertake....paid of course, but the dealership hasn't got that set of hands earning them the money...


Going back a few years, I was employed in a small business, with 2 other employees. I was earning approximately $34,000 per year, yet it cost my employer $50,000 per year to employ me and I'm not a qualified mechanic.....

So looking a a dealership......Costs them about $65,000 + per year to employ 1 mechanic.....The mechanic might be lucky to earn $46,000 - $47,000 per year. So of coruse big business costs are substancially more than any small businesses would be


Now does it make any sense, why they're hourly rate is as bad as it is????

[Fez WQ]

I have over 55 people employed here at the place I part run... and the costs to employ a person on $11 an hour is costing the company almost $20 an hour.... with all the insurances, the super, the various leave requirements and so on are are killing us here...... And this is in orthodontics..... And its Perth for you. The costs here are becoming extreme for many.

[Fiesta_Man69]

Compare:

Fez 60K service: $405 'fixed' price from Cumberland Ford... or

$152 from a local, two man mechanic operation - thats been in business for well over a decade, mind, and thats all up, parts bought by myself at Repco 25% sale with fully synth oil - 45 mins labour: the 2 hrs labour Ford charge for is pure bs.

Please don't say Ford need to charge another 250% because of coffee machines and shiny showrooms. Please. And then there's Ford wanting $1430 for a replacement clutch... lol

Perhaps it explains their record $220 million loss last year....

[Spinner77]

I find this an interesting discussion. Here's my 2 cents.

A useful distinction is between a products business and a service business.

With a products business you can increase your sales typically by a lot, without a corresponding increase in staff. Makkers is a good example. A busy outlet might do twice the business of a slow one, but it will not have twice the staff (I hear it makes its profit on the drinks, not on the food). If you are Microsoft you need the same number of developers (broadly) to produce a software product that sells 100 copies or sells 100 million.

Service businesses are different. The bigger you get, the more people you have to employ. If you double your business servicing cars, you might not need 100 per cent more staff, but you will need a lot more.

And as the staff numbers grow, so does your management overhead. You need people to supervise your staff, accounting staff and so on. Service industries are hard to make a big dollar in, unless there are barriers to entry (e.g. lawyers).

Far from everyone knows how to run a big or even medium business. The ability to do so is built into the charge. Ever wondered why the great mechanic's shop down the street almost everyone here seems to be looking for never grows into a big business?

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

Compare:

Fez 60K service: $405 'fixed' price from Cumberland Ford... or

$152 from a local, two man mechanic operation - thats been in business for well over a decade, mind, and thats all up, parts bought by myself at Repco 25% sale with fully synth oil - 45 mins labour: the 2 hrs labour Ford charge for is pure bs.

Please don't say Ford need to charge another 250% because of coffee machines and shiny showrooms. Please. And then there's Ford wanting $1430 for a replacement clutch... lol

Perhaps it explains their record $220 million loss last year....

Reading between the lines and going from things I know about franchises (be it in the tyre industry), dealerships are bound by contracts to charge certain absorbant prices for general items, like minor and major services. If they don't, they loose their franchise...In the tyre industry, one particular franchise actually take the keys to the place and you loose the lot...Stock and all.

As for Fords record loss...That has nothing to do with dealerships....That's to do with the manufacturing plant.

[Fiesta_Man69]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

As for Fords record loss...That has nothing to do with dealerships....That's to do with the manufacturing plant.

I disagree.

Dealerships are Fords first port of call with the buying public.

The service you get from dealerships determines whether you return, both for services and to buy another Ford.

The abhorent service I received from Dale, Cumberland and Sinclair has guaranteed that my next car will not be a Ford.

This then adversely affects Ford AUs bottom line, does it not?

[Spinner77]

This then adversely affects Ford AUs bottom line, does it not?

Probably not. The most assiduous whinger gets nowhere and his business is too microscopic to worry about. Usually he costs more to attend to than it's worth. Unless of course he gets huge publicity or huge support. Even then the dissident movement has to build on something. I don't believe Ford is in that position. If you think of a brand that give bad service and poor value, what do you think of first? Ford? Give me a break.

On that point I recorded A Current Affair last week, hoping (please excuse this weakness) to see a, uh, salacious interview that failed to be aired.

Anyway what I saw instead was an Alfa dealer. This poor guy - my heart really went out for him - made just about every mistake in the book, while honestly trying to do his job.

He allowed himself to be interviewe3d in the reception area standing up, never a good look (especially if you have a gut), confronting a small woman claiming to have a lemon. What he should have done was welcome the cameras into a meeting room, and have the table groaning with coffee and Italian cakes (he just had to ask Channel 9 to wait 15 minutes while he dealt with an urgent call from Milan) .

He really did not seem to know the details of her case. He should have a hot list of unhappy customers, the details of which he should know intimately and look at every day. Then there was the clincher - the dealership had not replied to every one of the unhappy customer's emails. Pathetic. Someone should get the sack just for that.

But the story would not have had legs except for one thing. Alfa has a bad reputation for reliability. Everyone knows that. Motoring journos keep repeating it, I assume in order to reach their quota of words within the mist of a short afternoon, after another pleasurable lunch with VW.

The real story, I bet, is that Alfas are no more or less reliable over the last decade or whenever it was they were taken over by Fiat, than any other mass-produced car. But the old public perception remains (except I guess among the Alfa crowd).

Here is my point. You can badger A Current Affair with tales of your rusty Fiesta - what an outrage - until you are blue in the face. But it won't make it as a story, because it does not fit public perceptions.

And relentless postings on Fordforums.com.au won't change that.

[Fiesta_Man69]

A few things Spinner:

1. I bought my car from Dale Ford. I received pathetic after sales service from Dale Ford. Dale Ford is now bust. Obviously I was but one customer who was treated like rubbish by this dealership. You want to claim that dealerships driving customers away then going bankrupt (Dale wasn't the only Ford dealership to go bust) has nothing to do with Ford losing over $200 million last year? Ok then.

2. Wouldn't waste time on ACA (wouldn't watch it either, mind). No, all I did was contact a little publication called the Daily Telegraph (Australia's biggest), sent pics, and details of my issues, had a good chat with the journo who wrote the used review where the Fiesta was slammed and he informed me that my car wasn't an isolated incident. They then ran the story, in a paper with a circulation of over 1 million.

3. Fiesta sales are continuing to slide year on year (despite moving production to Thailand and dropping vehicle prices). Overpriced parts, shonky dealerships, trouble with the dsg gearbox and pathetic after sales service are taking their toll. And it shouldn't be like this. If Australia introduces US style 'lemon laws' Ford Aus will be in trouble. Well, even more than it is in now.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

(despite moving production to Thailand and dropping vehicle prices).

You forgot about dropping quality of the vehicle as a whole, the WT Fiesta has nothing on the German made WS, its got more shiny gadgets but the quality of the car has dropped, and other odd changes, like wheel stud pattern, odd sized tyres etc.

I guess the only positive was apparently they fixed the lung cancer style aircon.

[brydie76]

Are you able to post this Daily Telegraph story Fiesta_Man? Sorry if I am reading it wrong, but they way you have written it sounds as if the DT ran your story in the paper after you contacted them.

Not being sarcastic or anything there, just interested. And not sure if you meant what I wrote above or just the original review sorry!

[Fiesta_Man69]

In Carsguide they run used car reviews. At the bottom of the review page they always ask for owners of a certain car (say a VE Commodore, Ford Focus etc) for their experiences and to contact them - they then run a used car review on that car in a month's time.

So when I read they were doing a review on the WS Fiesta, I contacted them via email, had a phone chat to Paul Gover (I believe it was, this was over a year ago now) after they emailed me for more details (I sent thu all the components replaced due to rust and chatted about the pinging - that's when I realised it was very common irrespective of fuel used and was informed dozens had contacted Carsguide regarding problems with the Fiesta).

I will try and find it online - I didn't keep the hard copy - it didn't really tell me anything I didn't already know, but like I said it was a over year ago now.

[InTrail]

I will try and find it online

Is this the one?
http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and...0_buyers_guide

[Pursya]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

You forgot about dropping quality of the vehicle as a whole, the WT Fiesta has nothing on the German made WS, its got more shiny gadgets but the quality of the car has dropped, and other odd changes, like wheel stud pattern, odd sized tyres etc.

I guess the only positive was apparently they fixed the lung cancer style aircon.

I would say, based on the review linked and several others I have read, that the move from Germany to Thailand has been a successful one for the Fiesta.
There is no doubt the "touchy feely" bits of the vehicle, like the dash have suffered.
But there appears to be none of the pinging or cut outs that plagued the German version. Serious safety issue that cut out.
Add to that half decent air con and the important problems appear to have been addressed.
Certainly the rust issue is one I have not heard of before, and the owner is correct, this should have been picked up prior to delivery by the manufacturer, the importer or the dealer.
No doubt this vehicle is a lemon and if we had a Government, any Government, with the balls to implement lemon laws it would have been replaced.

P.S. Hard to justify the drop in "build quality" statement, when the review itself states

"Build quality can also be variable, so cast a critical eye over any cars under consideration for purchase and don't accept anything that's not quite right."

for the WS version. I have no doubt that many buyers would have bought the WS based on "German Build Quality".

[mik]

amazing how a comparison for a clutch job can turn into a hate session, mind you the car in question was second hand, and how it was treated for the first 28000 k`s of it`s life unknown , also the discounted clutch job , might be just that, a clutch job, no machined flywheel,etc, non approved parts? but of course even with out this knowledge fomoco is instantly the the bad guy.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by mik

amazing how a comparison for a clutch job can turn into a hate session, mind you the car in question was second hand, and how it was treated for the first 28000 k`s of it`s life unknown , also the discounted clutch job , might be just that, a clutch job, no machined flywheel,etc, non approved parts? but of course even with out this knowledge fomoco is instantly the the bad guy.

Go and search OP's posts. Always sooking about Ford, after he bought a second hand car and needed to tell the world. Hard done by, but cannot build a bridge.
Theres always 2 sides to a story and we only have ever heard one.

Who ruins a clutch in a standard Fez in 64k kms?

[Pursya]

Don't think there is anything wrong with accusing Ford of "ripping off" on parts and service.
But the truth is ALL branded dealerships do the same thing.
You will ALWAYS get a better price for non genuine parts, even if they are from the same factory, and non branded mechanics.
I remember a few years ago, I owned a string of Mazda's and Eunos's but my local dealer also sold Peugeot and Land Rover,
Service rates varied, Mazda was $60 per hour, Peugeot was $66 per hour and Land Rover was $72 per hour!
Same mechanics, same workshop. Remember this is a country dealer, there was no back room separation of brands at all.

[mik]

it`s ok making accusations if there are`nt variables that can skew the facts, it`s not known if it is just a clutch replacement, if the flywheel is machined as well , the warranty on the job, the quality of the parts used. so therefore you can`t ascertain the truth without facts.
so no i don`t know that the truth is a dealer is ripping you off, no i don`t know that the bloke under cutting the dealer by 50% is`nt using a
yougotcheepacrutchkit from greetwoll motars crutch kit inkoparayted !!

On these grounds without facts i would`nt cast aspersions.

[Fiesta_Man69]

Originally Posted by mik

amazing how a comparison for a clutch job can turn into a hate session, mind you the car in question was second hand, and how it was treated for the first 28000 k`s of it`s life unknown , also the discounted clutch job , might be just that, a clutch job, no machined flywheel,etc, non approved parts? but of course even with out this knowledge fomoco is instantly the the bad guy.

The car was purchased brand new. Feel free to get the other side of the story from Dale Ford but that'll be hard when they have gone bankrupt.... And that tells you everything you need to know.

[trento]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Go and search OP's posts. Always sooking about Ford, after he bought a second hand car and needed to tell the world. Hard done by, but cannot build a bridge.
Theres always 2 sides to a story and we only have ever heard one.

Who ruins a clutch in a standard Fez in 64k kms?

Here here!

I've had my WS since they were released (2008 build date, first shipment in OZ) Just clocked up 83k still on the original clutch and can still chirp second. That as well as "boisterous" driving daily and a learner driver (my little sis, bless her uncoordinated cotton socks.)

I cannot fathom how this car is driven to wear the clutch out in such a short period of time.

As for fiestaman's constant rants, well I rarely visit the Fiesta forum anymore for fear of having to read yet another fiesta bashing thread.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by trento

I cannot fathom how this car is driven to wear the clutch out in such a short period of time.

.

I'd bet, he drives with one foot on the clutch pedal and the other on the accelerator pedal....Wears them out real quick.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

The car was purchased brand new. Feel free to get the other side of the story from Dale Ford but that'll be hard when they have gone bankrupt.... And that tells you everything you need to know.

Have they really??? Do tell!

Originally Posted by trento

As for fiestaman's constant rants, well I rarely visit the Fiesta forum anymore for fear of having to read yet another fiesta bashing thread.

If that is the case, please report the posts. A mod will have a look and decide if the comment is constructive or just another whinge. Not a reason to not visit. Would rather the majority discuss with some intelligent conversations rather than being spoilt by the few.