IT Positions

[loxxr6]

I hear that the IT sector is overcrowded and can be a tough area to get into but despite this, I feel at the moment like I need to do something that makes me think more than my current position....plus it seems that to get a decent paying job you need to have some sort of paperwork (degree/qualification) anyway. I seem to spend my life in front of a pc so I'm thinking why the hell not try and make some money out of it. What do you guys think ?

What I want to know is -

Who here is employed in/studying an IT related position....and what exactly are you doing ? Do you recommend this as a career ?

[BlueRaven]

I've been working in internal IT support for a accountancy firm for a few years now. At the moment I'm doing a lot of hardware support and helpdesk related jobs, as well as small projects. We run a Novell system and the company I work put a lot of focus on training us, allowing us to get certified for free.

Whilst I work for hardware support moreso at the moment, when another hardware person is hired I will start working on server support and the PABX again.

I see Novell certification as a double-eged sword. On one hand, if I leave this place, there are not many Novell enviroments out there - meaning I would have a better chance of 'naming my price' if I went for another job. On the flipside though, finding work might be difficult.

As far as a career goes, if you can handle stress, negative feedback and working for clients that don't really appreciate what you do, then IT Support is the way to go ;)
It depends what you like really... I like working for IT Support, because I enjoy fixing problems.

Oh, I should point out that I started working here as a 'traineeship' for 18months, where I got a Cert 4 in Network Management at tafe. So no qualifications were really required to start work...but realise that you start on bottom feeder kind of jobs.

[Casper]

IT is a huge area Loxx, you might want to be a little more specific about which area you are interested in.
I have been a software consultant for about 11 years now. Basically plan systems based on an existing software. Build, install, training, test and go live. Its pretty stressful and generally you go from one drama to the next (install for the client may finish but you dont get to enjoy it, you're off to the next install) and travel can get a bit insane (try 50-70 flights a year) but if you get the right company you do get a lot of flexibility and the pay can be considered on the high side.

Just be aware that for consultants like me about 50% who get into it are out (by their own choice usually) within 2 years and probably 90% within 5 years. Long term'ers are rare and thats when you can get the good money. 10 years + is when you get into the big game.

[Papa Smurf]

I build and repair computers as a sideline. Like in most industries, if you are GOOD at what you do your position is assured. If you put 50% effort into anything you will get a poor return. The people who are willing to work the hardest will get the best return.

I know there are many people out there in the IT world but not ALL are 100% givers.

Sorry about all the truisms but? Thats waht ya get from OLDIES

[Quasi]

My son spends up to 18 hours a day in front of a computer, but knows SFA when the time comes to do anything related to curing problems/testing.

You may be surprised to know what a huge amount of knowledge is required for something like....say.....service/help desk. Probably the one area to concentrate on, in terms of knowledge for support purposes, I would have have to say Microsoft Office.

There is a Microsoft certification for this, and as most IT help desk positions stipulate support of Office and Windows 2000/XP destops, You should concentrate your efforts here. 1 thing though.....keep your mind open to learning as you go. The IT industry never stops evolving and advancing.

I have worked with too many certified 'experts' over the years that don't see it that way.

[Rodp]

Loxxr6, if I had the choice to go back 15 years ago when I entered IT, I would have gave myself a slap in the head and told myself to pick another career.

I've been working for the same company for 14 of those years (well, if you include the takeovers) and dealt with probably more IT sites than most in Australia and I can tell you that it's a depressing view when you see how people in the industry are treated.

I do enjoy my job and I know I have it better than most people in the industry (I actually get paid overtime at penalty rates for the copious amount of work you tend to do after hours) which is rare indeed.

Those that have found a niche that can't be easily farmed out to India, Malaysia or Singapore are on the right track or those who have a role that can't be done remotely are also a step ahead. My job involves repair onsite so I'm in a relatively safe position. I've got a call at 1am tommorrow morning and the motivation to do a call at that time would plummet to 0 if paid overtime were abolished, so I'm sticking where I am.

In the current cost cutting craze, IT gets hit the hardest. The easiest way to cost cut is to reduce salaries. I'm just in the 6 figure mark, a 23yr old uni grad was just hired to do a similar role to mine (he's been doing the role as a contractor for abotu a year ago... and ok, he doesn't look at SAN's and other storage devices but they comprise of about 5% of my workload) and was hired for around 35% of my salary. When I started 14 years ago, I was making more fixing terminals and printers for customers paying a fraction of the service costs they do today.

One thing that is very important though, sitting infront of a PC all day doesn't mean you'll be any good in the IT industry. You have to have natural aptitude at problem solving and logical thought. The one thing that irks me the most is that you also have to know how to stand back and let the guy employed to repair your equipment do so without questioning him. The amount of snot nosed twerps who try and tell me my job when their sole claim to fame is that they've built their own pc.....! But I digress.

I would only recommend it as a career if;

a) you don't mind being at the bottom of the food chain.
b) you show a natural aptitude, I think Dilbert coins it as 'The Knack'.
c) you don't mind working long hours for probably no additional pay.
d) you enjoy the thrill of wondering if you're going to be axed when redundancies come around. again.
e) you know that it's not a high income earner unless you were in the industry long ago and carved out your own perfect niche and the income is falling daily.
f) you think that the market will rebel against so much IT being farmed to India and companies will start closing down their OS call centres.
g) you can eat poop and grin when you first start out.

[Josh_XC]

I am currently studing at uni in information technology, my advice is to go to tafe first and do a degree there something like i did (network engineering), tafe gives u good hands on abilities while the uni is more theory.

I work at a bank help desk part time during uni.

but yeh im only 19 and im already seeing the stress and other crap u have to go though in this career. But eh... the money is good lol

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by BlueRaven

I see Novell certification as a double-eged sword. On one hand, if I leave this place, there are not many Novell enviroments out there - meaning I would have a better chance of 'naming my price' if I went for another job. On the flipside though, finding work might be difficult.

...and reducing daily. Staunch Netware shops are either migrating to a Windows environment or to a whole new platform daily. I'm 3.12 certified but seriously couldn't be bothered updating it as my need to use it was once a month if I was lucky, back then! Even less now.

Because of the dwindling numbers of Netware sites, there are more Netware Cert people out there than there are Netware sites, so don't rest on your laurels as there aren't many large Netware sites out there and that's where you make your dollars. I'd stick my head in a few Unix books and team them together if I were you.

There's a few roles left where you can name your price but Netware Certified Engineer isn't one of them anymore.

[Mark351]

I am in a rarified position in IT. I'm in a company that lives and breathes good IT practises, and as such is a challenging, rewarding place to work.

I'm a Senior Software Developer for a company that develops systems for various Automotive Financial companies, though the depth of our expertise means we could develop any kind of system a client would wish to have built for them.

We are based on Agile/XP Programming principles, and mostly code in Java/J2EE.

Everyone is well paid, works a standard 37.5 hour week, and overtime is accrued rather than expected. Dress is very casual. As per Agile practises, we code, learn and progress as a team, and whilst I have been coding for over 21 years, I am learning a hell of a lot at the moment. Stress? After working at other places with death march projects, this place could only be described as comfortable. The expectations are high though, there is a strong emphasis on good design and good code, and those who can't cut it don't last long. But they only employ good people, and I've seen very few people leave this place since I've arrived.

Basic education/skills gets you basic jobs with basic salaries. Get good education, try to get good experience and look to work with good companies.

If you aren't as tuned to the technical side of IT, then project management/sales are very well paid positions in IT if you can manage the stress.

[parawolf]

I would not recommend anyone to get into IT as a career unless they have absolute focus on what they want to do, and understand how to achieve it. Believe that in IT you have to be at the bottom of the chain for a long time. If you contracting, you better be good, otherwise you won't get many jobs. If you are full time, then don't expect high pay rates or rises unless you are exceptional, or get those 1 in 1000 jobs.

I'd recommend people to be an electrical tradesman over an IT career. From my position - both from working almost 5 years at a vendor, and now at a major financial company globally I can see the following happening in big IT business:

SysAdmin are generally outsourced. These sort of contracts go to companies like CSC, IBM GSA or EDS. People that I know and have worked closely with at these companies are treated like crap at times, training is limited, future development from your entry point is limited.

Developers are regularly and regularly being ousourced. Application development is not being done in house, outsourced to people like DeathXR and his company, or to India.

Application Support is usually outsourced to India in big business.

So what does that leave in big business?

Project Management
Business Analysts
IT Architects
Middle/Upper Managers

There is a large push at the moment to outsource anything that isn't 'core business'. For me who is currently a Senior Systems Engineer (IT Architect/Sys Admin) my job in 5 years is under threat. However I don't plan to be in my job for 5 years. In fact I don't plan to be in my job description for another 12 months.

IT you have to adapt. I'm working at a company that has massive mainframe legacy, they just don't understand the concept of 'midrange' systems or architecture, or how to charge this back to the business. Difficult to charge back on a MIPS basis, or utilisation basis.

Anyway, I digress. I'd strongly recommend people NOT to get into the IT industry if they are looking for a career.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by DeathXR

I am in a rarified position in IT. I'm in a company that lives and breathes good IT practises, and as such is a challenging, rewarding place to work.

Gee, quick! Take a photo of your place, they're as rare as rocking horse doody

[XRated]

Originally Posted by Josh_XC

I am currently studing at uni in information technology, my advice is to go to tafe first and do a degree there something like i did (network engineering), tafe gives u good hands on abilities while the uni is more theory.

I work at a bank help desk part time during uni.

but yeh im only 19 and im already seeing the stress and other crap u have to go though in this career. But eh... the money is good lol

I am doing the same thing - I've been to TAFE (Software Development) and now I'm at Uni doing a Bachelor of IT: Multimedia. TAFE gives you a lot of practical skills and also has specific subjects to help people learn how to deal with clients and customers. From being a shy person in front of people, this ended up being one of my most beneficial and favourite subjects.

There are an abundance of different IT fields you can go into. I have decided that by combining graphic design (multimedia) with IT, designing (as opposed to coding, e.g. JAVA *shudder*) is best suited to me as I like to think I have a flare for creativity and design whilst also computer savvy.

I'm a internal support for this office and some of the external locations for my company. I do local support for the North Sydney head office, Bankstown office, and phone support to Brisbane. I did IT cert 2 as part of my HSC in 2004. Everything here is Microsoft, and you need to get to know XP and Office very well to do desktop support.

Someone said before about the IT tafe course and learning how to deal with clients etc. I was a pretty quiet person prior to doing tafe, but now I'm not afraid to speak up, and was my favorite part of the course as it was a real confidence boost.

[bathurst77]

I have been Customer service engineer for various vendors and outsourcing companies for over 10 years. Basically "gun for hire", sent out to customer sites installing servers, workstations and networks and doing all sorts of support, maintenance and repairs, and ...computer-ish stuff.

I have MCSE (Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer) MCP+i (Microsoft Cert Professional "plus Internet") and CCNA (Cisco Ceritfied Network Associate), as well as abackground in AIX and Linux and Mac O/S.

You do kind of need a love of problems solving, of listening to users complain, only hearing form people when things are broken. And an understanding of "Computer logic".

More important tho is a "user skill", listening to and geting the trust of the owners and users, who can be really upset when tey cant do what they need to do coz "the system is stuffed an its your fault". They cant do their work, or are losing money and they need it fixed, yesterday!

The money aint as good as it used to was, and the employers are getting meaner! I put a post up about that in another thread.

For that reason im quitting after Xmas and starting my own company doing home and small business computer and network servicing in Western Sydney and Blue Mountains. SO FOR EVERYONE WHO LIVES OR WORKS BETWEEN PARRAMATTA AND LITHGOW (CASTLE HILL to LIVERPOOL) SEE
www.jemmex.com.au
Mention FordForums.au and I will give a 15% discount!

OK this may be close to the edge as far as advertising, but Im a regular here, and just starting out on my own. I need all the help i can get finding work.(please look the other way mods, just this once? I got wife 3 kids and a BA-SR to feed!)

[Quasi]

Originally Posted by Rodp

The amount of snot nosed twerps who try and tell me my job when their sole claim to fame is that they've built their own pc.....! But I digress.

I feel your pain.

The amount of people who read a 3 or 4 page article in PC User and think they know what they are doing is unbelievable

For entertainment value go to a Saturday/Sunday computer market, position yourself close to one of the trade stalls, and listen to the BS fly :rolleyes:

[Simmo]

ive been in a paid IT role for just over a year now and if your heart isnt in IT and youre doing it for the money then pack up now. unless you love computers and the little hissy fits they throw constantly then you will HATE IT.

i didnt do much to get my job, i was pretty lucky. did 1 year at tafe in a multimedia course. got a little article published in a UK overclocking mag. but ive been messing on PCs for years and years and its all ive ever been good at. when i went to the interview i was underqualified but they could see my lust and drive for computers and hired me. ive made it a year and they are about to pay for my A+ cert.

biggest suggestion i could give when we were doing interviews for my slave. my boss couldnt care less about how many pieces of paper you have. we want to see that you are going to have love for your job. if you are enthusiatic and dont act like a elite IT master just cos you can fix your mums PC or whatever you will get hired.

[loxxr6]

Casper : IT is a huge area Loxx, you might want to be a little more specific about which area you are interested in.

This is exactly why I want to hear all the dirt on various areas.

I work in a support area for an insurance company which means I hear people and whinge daily in between liasing with our own helpdesk and insurance systems people.

I think my plan at the moment is to narrow down what I'd like to do and go from there. Pay is important but having a job that I like and that gets me thinking more is more of a priority. I just don't think that my current job is teaching me anything so I want to see what else is out there. I'm more than happy to go back to the books and study if I need too.

[Tote]

Have a think what part of the industry you want to be in, software development or hardware maintainance, the software side I can't offer much objective advice on ( and software does not include operating systems) On the hardware side my suggestion would be to talk to some recruiting agencies and ask them what they have going, there are always jobs going doing rollout work etc if you are keen to work and prepared to travel. From there you need to think about some certification to make you a bit more attractive to the pimps in the recruiting industry. In my experience a MCSE, Linux or Netware qualification won't get you a job but it may make the difference in that it shows that you are prepared to learn and apply yourself when necessary. I have a couple of mates who participated in a desktop rollout I was project managing, they got the job because we were looking for bodies to plonk machines on desks, from there they have progressed to where one of them is contracting for $80.00 per hour and the other is in charge of server management in a government department.
As far as degrees go, in an office of 120 people in a large multinational computer company here in Canberra there might be 15 with degrees. Helpdesk work in my experience does not necessarily translate to a good career move as while it pays OK it's very difficult to get a better job from there as there is a perception that helpdesk people are a bit lacking in practical experience.
As a start I would suggest talking to a few recruiters and watching seek etc and see what is about. A word of warning though, recruitment companies can be a bit slippery and you need to keep reminding them that you are available.
Manpower do all the recruiting for our company, there are plenty of others out there though.
By the way, dont let people tell you that hardware is a menial task, the good jobs are there if you show that you are prepared to work, I'm currently in California for a couple of weeks hardware training for the second time this year.
Regards,
Tote

[jonk]

It's fair enough to see so many people give TAFE a good mention, aswell the MCSE stuff. However, it's far easier if you have a skill to show your future employer & what you can do with it. Take along examples of your work, burn stuff onto CD and show'em in the interview.

Too many IT bods get locked into the certification of it all. Pieces of paper won't make life easier for you ! Especially those who do MCSE cert's and then get sniffy because 'they' then know it all ! It's only a multiple choice test for MCSE stuff, and you MCSE people do get bloody annoying; and if you get certified in too specific area's your stuck... plus the big dollars to do it all.

Don't fall into the trap of trying to buy your way into an IT job. Go to an employer and ask for part time work experience. But don't self fund certification if you 'HAVE TO' have it.

One other, build up your skills and find some IT labour hire firms, move around before committing to a particular field. But you don't necessarily need to have concrete certification behind you if you've shown a natural aptitude to do things differently and succesfully from the rest.

my missus works in IT for eds its pays about $55.00 an hour but she allso has a degree and assoticiate degrees and it was a hard slog and she still has a way to go you can make $120 an hour but if you think your gonna get it on atafe cerificate after a couple of weeks dream on :

[Casper]

2 other quick things.
If you want to get into the software side of things.... forget annual leave, its a rare, RARE thing. Also, you bet not be afraid of talking to an audience. Its a must, something you will need to do. Nothing like turning up to a site and getting told you have 5 minutes to prepare for a 2 hour demo followed by an hour of Q&A with everyone from the network admin to the CFO and CEO. Stand up, speak clear and show no fear : That has to be water off a ducks back or you will find you go nuts.

[Mark351]

Originally Posted by Rodp

Gee, quick! Take a photo of your place, they're as rare as rocking horse doody

Yes, the comparison with my last place is like chalk and cheese. Besides good pay, we get other bonuses that make staying in the job worthwhile.

One day I'd love to start a company like it of my own...

[Tote]

Originally Posted by matey

my missus works in IT for eds its pays about $55.00 an hour but she allso has a degree and assoticiate degrees and it was a hard slog and she still has a way to go you can make $120 an hour but if you think your gonna get it on atafe cerificate after a couple of weeks dream on :

That's a career path in IT that dosen't get a mention much either, there's money to be made in client relationship management, basically you are the negotiator between the service provider and the customer. It is usually difficult to get such a role without experience in the industry though.
Regards,
Tote

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by loxxr6

This is exactly why I want to hear all the dirt on various areas.

I work in a support area for an insurance company which means I hear people and whinge daily in between liasing with our own helpdesk and insurance systems people.

I think my plan at the moment is to narrow down what I'd like to do and go from there. Pay is important but having a job that I like and that gets me thinking more is more of a priority. I just don't think that my current job is teaching me anything so I want to see what else is out there. I'm more than happy to go back to the books and study if I need too.

If you're still adamant you want to go down that path then my #1 advice to you would be to attempt to select roles that are customer facing and do what you can to continue to improve your inter-personal skills (that are generally lacking in many IT people). While I'm in a highly technical role, 99% of my job can be done by a trained monkey. However, In a most situations, it's never about fixing the problem, it's about fixing the customer.

So if it's an internal helpdesk, try for a role that is more hands on rather than sitting in a dark office only ever answering the phone. If you get out among the people you support (your customers) and you do it with a great attitude and competency then you'll be one of the most loved in the company. It's hard to sack the popular guy.

If it's for a service or solutions provider, try to get a role where you're directly interacting with their customers. Give them value added attention and when they start asking to only deal with you, management sits up and takes notice.

It's easy to third party a role from beneath you that doesn't interact with customers face to face, it's a lot harder to do it to a role where customers value your personal benefit.

[max^power]

IT as a whole is a general term. go for it - just dont take my job please

[clontarf_x]

I work at iiNet in Tech Support. The way I see the IT industry having a certification really depends on WHO you want to work for.

I have no qualifications at all, not even a wiff of a CCNA cert, but I still managed to get my position at iiNet, which is like the 4th or 3rd largest ISP in Australia (After aquiring OzEmail) purely with what I knew in my head.

The way I see it, if you can PROVE your IT skills, then your guaranteed a job anywhere you want. If you want to guarantee your skills to someone then having the peice of paper is essential.

I love my job and I hope I work there/in the industry for the majority of my service lifetime. I find something strangely satisfying in telling someone who is an "IT Expert" how to perform an NT based OS TCP/IP Stack Reset, and I also enjoy helping those that are less fortunate with the IT uptake of the 20th century (those poor poor Mac OS 8 users).

IT Rules maaaaaaaaaan

[-jjM-]

i also am probly gonna be entering the computer industry, as well, i spend most of my time in and on the computer, developed a great knowhow for mainly hardware over soft, due to my injurieys at my previous job, im very causious about goin back, despit the face i love workin out doors

a friend of mine did his diploma in network engennering, took 2years full time, and now he works for telstras internet error support team (something like that) basicly monoring errors and stuf in the network, dosent get the best shifts but hes happy doin what he likes

altho im not into networkin that much, i more interested in hardware, using my hands, (this is goin somewhere i swear) altho i dont exacly wanna just get a certificate in one area, i wouldnt mind gettin a diploma in something, and good thing is, i dont see life movin any faster than it is atm (kinda :P), so thats why im expressing an interest in a diplomace , somthing like technical and systum support or something else cause my skills are various

what can anyone in IT recommend

[jase_elxr8]

I've been in the industry for 8 years now. I'm a customer service engineer for a large computer company. I have had the same job but worked for 3 different companies under the same manager!! My advise for people looking at getting into hardware is to watch out what kind of hardware you want to work on. Servers are turning into basic boxes and getting more and more modular all the time soon there will be no need for a tech to go out and do hardware replacement. If you want to work with hardware i would recommend getting storage or networks, these are the two biggest growth areas for hardware now.

[Mechan1k]

I have been working for Optus for just over 4 years now ... I am working in their IP Networks division ... I monitor/troubleshoot connection/router/firewall/switch issues for several different networks that we supply. Also the back-end of Mobile IP Networking as well.

I just had a look at our kist of different products/networks that we have to support for many thousands (might be millions) of customers ... and it is near 500 different products that I need to know inside out to support the network(s).

My section support area has increased 50-fold in the last 4 years ... but no extra staff for it though ... and we won't see extra staff ... we might have less staff soon.

I am using to working 12 hour shifts rotating from days to nights every couple of days.

But I am getting sick of being in the office all the time.

If you want half decent money per week - ie. $1,000 - $1,500 (and more)
AND you love driving.

Become a courier ... actually ... no don't .. means less work and money for me ... LOL

If I did courier work full time like I did my Optus work ... I'd earn more money driving around for a living ... with exercise included as well.

But so far my balance of Optus (office) / ANC Courier work (outdoors/driving) is pretty good ... i get to be outside and inside as well .. plus the bonus of 2 incomes as well.