Privatisation of electricity in Vic. - Page 4

cheap · 17-03-2014, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Define the average consumer!.
Over 3 million Australians sleep under a solar instalation, this is a large number of consumers who have benefitted from the RET

My reading suggests about $15 per annum is the cost to the consumer for subsidising solar vs $80 per year spent on subsidisning more traditional power generation.

Can you prove to me how the average consumer, what/whoever that is, benefits from coal subsidies.

Jus(using my real name)tin

Can you provide me with full details on how you derived your $15 V's $80 numbers, with the assumptions and contraints I will attempt to verify them.

jpblue1000 · 17-03-2014, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheap

Can you provide me with full details on how you derived your $15 V's $80 numbers, with the assumptions and contraints I will attempt to verify them.

You have a computer and access to the internet, off you go...

See how annoying and fruitless that is.

Links are on my work PC I'll dig em out tomorrow and post them up.

JP

jpblue1000 · 17-03-2014, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheap

An estimated cost of RET/CO2 is clearly printed on Qld electricity bills. ?

Queensland enacted a policy where the estimate of the RET and carbon tax would be printed on the Bill of consumers.

This policy appears not to have been copied in SA I don't know about other states.

Acording to their website 'The Qld Competition Authority estimates the Federal carbon price and renewable energy target add about $259 a year to a typical 6.3MWh household' By this estimate the RET and Carbon tax would cost me about 60 dollars for the year.
would you scan that part of your bill ans post it up with real facts? delete personal info if you want...

JP

cheap · 17-03-2014, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Queensland enacted a policy where the estimate of the RET and carbon tax would be printed on the Bill of consumers.

This policy appears not to have been copied in SA I don't know about other states.

Acording to their website 'The Qld Competition Authority estimates the Federal carbon price and renewable energy target add about $259 a year to a typical 6.3MWh household' By this estimate the RET and Carbon tax would cost me about 60 dollars for the year.
would you scan that part of your bill ans post it up with real facts? delete personal info if you want...

JP

No need, it is just as you've discovered and appears on every Qld bill. And from that cost the consumer can work out their approximate RET/CO2 cost.

In order words "free" power is being payed for by everyone who uses power - it can't be much simpler.

cheap · 17-03-2014, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

You have a computer and access to the internet, off you go...

See how annoying and fruitless that is.

Links are on my work PC I'll dig em out tomorrow and post them up.

JP

That was done on purpose because of past experiences and my aversion to the continual "prove it" hubris that is wearing my tolerance thin.

jpblue1000 · 17-03-2014, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheap

No need, it is just as you've discovered and appears on every Qld bill. And from that cost the consumer can work out their approximate RET/CO2 cost.

Is that all it was, that standard statement which I quoted. Jeez you made it out like they calculated it for you, not gave you an estimate which you then extrapolated data. Like how many people in an average house that uses a massive 6300Kw/h I presume 5 equating to $52 a year cost of RET and Carbon tax per year. Not bad really!

JP

cheap · 17-03-2014, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Is that all it was, that standard statement which I quoted. Jeez you made it out like they calculated it for you, not gave you an estimate which you then extrapolated data. Like how many people in an average house that uses a massive 6300Kw/h I presume 5 equating to $52 a year cost of RET and Carbon tax per year. Not bad really!

JP

You'd be surprised, not everyone lives inner city, people living in hot climates with swimming pools, add a few kids, it doesn't take much to consume a lot of power. My house is 5 star energy rated with low power light bulbs throughout the house - BTW the bulbs are another waste of money. It is a big house because of the family, our power bills are quite large and the RET/CO2 is likewise. When we lived in Darwin our summer quarterly electricity bill was over $700 and that was 15 years ago - heaven knows what those folks get hit with these days.

xtremerus · 17-03-2014, 10:51 PM

In NSW the bill says The federal carbon tax and green energy schemes add about $332 to a typical 6.5 MWh household bill.

xtremerus · 17-03-2014, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Queensland enacted a policy where the estimate of the RET and carbon tax would be printed on the Bill of consumers.

This policy appears not to have been copied in SA I don't know about other states.

Acording to their website 'The Qld Competition Authority estimates the Federal carbon price and renewable energy target add about $259 a year to a typical 6.3MWh household' By this estimate the RET and Carbon tax would cost me about 60 dollars for the year.
would you scan that part of your bill ans post it up with real facts? delete personal info if you want...

JP

You are probably right with your calculation for your power consumption. you have solar.
You are not factoring the actual cost of solar, in that you use the grid as your 'battery', to have 24/7 power.
Do your sums on a stand-alone system, and the long term cost over 20yrs, ie batteries and panel replacement , and you will have the TRUE cost of solar.

At the moment, solar does not pay its way.

**ebxr8240** · 18-03-2014, 02:28 PM

If you used batteries at night ? Just enough for lights fridge / freezer and TV. Your not paying the premium price ..large enough solar system ..prices to install has dropped.. Way off the subject of privatisation !!

**GasoLane** · 18-03-2014, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Yes you are right and it's why we are the greatest polluters per capita of all nations ever!

I'm glad you said "per capita" because....................

Yep, we're a real bunch of energy wasting polluters

jpblue1000 · 18-03-2014, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtremerus

You are probably right with your calculation for your power consumption. you have solar.
You are not factoring the actual cost of solar, in that you use the grid as your 'battery', to have 24/7 power.
Do your sums on a stand-alone system, and the long term cost over 20yrs, ie batteries and panel replacement , and you will have the TRUE cost of solar.

At the moment, solar does not pay its way.

That calculation was based on the last 1/4 of electricity use before our solar installation.
We dont have batteries becuase I dont have anywhere to put them. the physical size of todays affordable technology and our small inner city block meant they wouldnt fit.
Im waiting for LiFEP04 or better batteries in the next few years the planned building on our suite has allocated space for them. we will then be 100% independant

Currently our nightime power comes from Wind as we have signed up with a wind power generator/retailer.

And again Im not concerned about the monetary cost of my power use as its really a small amount.

JP

Adamz Ghia · 18-03-2014, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

That calculation was based on the last 1/4 of electricity use before our solar installation.
We dont have batteries becuase I dont have anywhere to put them. the physical size of todays affordable technology and our small inner city block meant they wouldnt fit.
Im waiting for LiFEP04 or better batteries in the next few years the planned building on our suite has allocated space for them. we will then be 100% independant

Currently our nightime power comes from Wind as we have signed up with a wind power generator/retailer.

And again Im not concerned about the monetary cost of my power use as its really a small amount.

JP

Just a ballpark figure, what will that set up cost you...?

jpblue1000 · 18-03-2014, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Just a ballpark figure, what will that set up cost you...?

No idea at this stage as it will be incorporated int he new building and when that happens we will invest inthe current tech whatever that might be in the next year or two but it gets cheaper every year.
I know the current tech was going to cost about another 6K for a 3kw storage system, but we needed an area the size of a w/c to house it all, the batteries don't last long enough so its wasted money, as oposed to too expensive.

JP

**ebxr8240** · 18-03-2014, 08:54 PM

My old bus converted motorhome has 700 watt solar and 4 /6v batteries.. They use up very little space..If they where to be fitted at home ?? Could easy be fitted under hot water system or outside in vented cover.. New storage / deep cycle batteries are very efficient..
The fridge and freezer are 12v compressor. Lights are LEDS and the TV is 12v .. Water is LPG.. It has 3600 watt Onan generator which is only used if we cook with electric frying pan or microwave..
Elect suppliers don't like you using batteries as back up..
Because you can go off grid and they DON'T get cheap solar !!
Its not a level playing field ..

69XWGT · 26-03-2014, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheap

Significant falls in revenue?

Queensland Treasury figures http://www.budget.qld.gov.au/previous-budgets

2001 Revenue $18.18 billion
2002 Revenue $19.237 billion
2003 Revenue $20.181 billion
2004 Revenue $21.4 billion
2005 Revenue $24 billion
2006 Revenue $26.604 billion
2007 Revenue $29.070 billion
2008 Revenue $32.551 billion
2009 Revenue $36,582 billion
2010 Revenue $37,192 billion
2011 Revenue $40,606 billion
2012 Revenue $43,007 billion
2013 Revenue $46,507 billion

Perhaps you meant The Commonwealth Government, as there is a misconception of a fall in revenue to the Fed's, there hasn't been.

As for the drought, you are partially correct, the drought has had an adverse effect but perhaps not in the way you meant. To drought proof SEQ, the government built the Tugun desalination plant, how much did this cost and how many litres of water were produced. And then there is the Traveston dam folly, how much did that cost?

Yep we are in the crapper but it isn't because of falling revenues, that would leave one other possibility - the governments are spending more than they're receiving.

I'm surprised you can get any figures from the QLD treasury seeing that Newman has threatened anybody that releases any information on the states finances will be sacked.
You're also believing the not so independent Costello report that has been shot to pieces by smarter people then the ones sitting behind their keyboards.

Selling of assets only benefit rich people.
It's just stupid ideology that should have been thrown out years ago.

Tell me one thing. How many people win the game of monopoly with no assets??
That's right no one because they don't have a revenue base and selling assets only makes that situation worse

69XWGT · 26-03-2014, 11:10 AM

Yep blame the RET.
All the while people are paying over 50% of our power bill to upgrade the lines, poles and sub stations.
For what?
So people can have 2 or 3 air conditioners running flat out for half the year..
I don't have air conditioners so, using some of the lame arsed arguments here, why should I pay for the upgrade of the line, poles, and sub stations.
The LNP have declared war on solar users and the QLD competition authority is just made up of LNP faithful peddling the same lies.
It's also ironic that the government owned generators and transmission companies increased their prices stating they needed to do it to remain profitable but then posted record profits by nearly the same amount they increased it by.

Solar users were encouraged to install systems to try an avoid the state governments from having to build billion dollar power stations.
Which you hypocrites would have been paying for anyway.

I can't wait for when the battery technology gets better. I'll go completely off grid and then you whingers will have to pay an even bigger share to keep it all going

69XWGT · 26-03-2014, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheap

So if selling assets is bad. Then how should they repaid the massive debt?

No doubt taxing everyone in Queensland even more would be good with you?

Or how about raising royalties to +50% , that will work a treat?

Or how about making even more public servants redundant?

Sadly there isn't many options available?

Oh and remind me again how Queensland got into this financial mess?

We could always use the Tim Nichols and Newmans approach by sacking thousands cutting some very worthwhile programs and creating a 5 billion dollar revenue black hole

cheap · 01-04-2014, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 69XWGT

We could always use the Tim Nichols and Newmans approach by sacking thousands cutting some very worthwhile programs and creating a 5 billion dollar revenue black hole

From my perspective state services are working no worse than before all those people being let go.