BP Brisbane Oil Refinery closing

[cheap]

Not good news:

http://m.theaustralian.com.au/busine...-1226872201114

I was talking to a BP engineering consultant only last week and he thought the refinery was "safe". In his opinion " over the past few years the unions has pulled their heads in" but "the CO2 Tax was definately hurting".

[buggerlugs]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/busine...-1226872334552
Funny, No mention of the CO2 Tax hurting. Plenty of other reasons thou............

[NAK302]

so many issues, so let's start at the top where mismanagement continues in this country.

[Franco Cozzo]

If you guys had your own refinery why is fuel so expensive in QLD then?

All these late sipping people in white collar roles say we don't need a manufacturing industry in Australia because its too expensive, and they're trying to use the same justification for the oil refineries.

Maybe so.

The problem comes if there is a war in South East Asia, which doesn't have to be between Australia and another nation, it could be between Asia which cuts off the supply lines to Australia, then we'll be wishing we had our own refinery.

Imagine if Thailand went to war with another nation, or some civil uprising happens and they decide they cannot send any fuel or have to repurpose their manufacturing facilities for something else.

[mechanic]

Just as a point of interest, a university lecturer stated this morning that we now have 4 refineries left out of 8. Supposedly the other 4 are soon to be gone as well.
We also are the only country to leave storage to private enterprise with the end result we are now the only country to have less than 90 days fuel supply in the event of a major mishap somewhere.
While I'm personally dead against big government, maybe secure fuel supply is a no go area for the corporations.

[I6DOHC]

Big Damo (post #4) is 100% spot on. Fuel is the lifeblood that makes this country go around. Know a bloke there who'll lose a job, with young family etc. Tough times ahead.

Australia's biggest threat to national security is our own ignorance and not understanding the basic concept that the rest of the world doesn't actually care about Australia.

Currently it seems most are content to see the destruction of the framework built over many generations that helped keep us self sufficient.

Surely the acts of Russia/Putin of late should wake people up to the fact that nothing has really changed in the modern world. Wars can break out at any time for any reason, and Australia is NOT going to be immune to the effects of it all.

[kaniSS]

Originally Posted by I6DOHC

Big Damo (post #4) is 100% spot on. Fuel is the lifeblood that makes this country go around. Know a bloke there who'll lose a job, with young family etc. Tough times ahead.

Australia's biggest threat to national security is our own ignorance and not understanding the basic concept that the rest of the world doesn't actually care about Australia.

Currently it seems most are content to see the destruction of the framework built over many generations that helped keep us self sufficient.

Surely the acts of Russia/Putin of late should wake people up to the fact that nothing has really changed in the modern world. Wars can break out at any time for any reason, and Australia is NOT going to be immune to the effects of it all.

Once the last 4 refineries shut down, we are absolutely stuffed if a war breaks out.

[Franco Cozzo]

Remember what they taught you in history class about World War I being "The war to end all wars!"?

How many wars have there been since then?

Everyone is pretending to play nicely in the sandpit that is Asia today, tomorrow is a different story.

[NAK302]

Originally Posted by I6DOHC

Australia's biggest threat to national security is our own ignorance and not understanding the basic concept that the rest of the world doesn't actually care about Australia.

this

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by mechanic

Just as a point of interest, a university lecturer stated this morning that we now have 4 refineries left out of 8. Supposedly the other 4 are soon to be gone as well.
We also are the only country to leave storage to private enterprise with the end result we are now the only country to have less than 90 days fuel supply in the event of a major mishap somewhere.
While I'm personally dead against big government, maybe secure fuel supply is a no go area for the corporations.

All OECD countries have agreed to the 90 day requirement. Except Australia states that fuel on ships coming to Australia should be included, but even then it comes nowhere near the 90 day requirement. Certain states only have the ability to store 10 days supply. The issue lies in the fact that Australia uses about 1 million barrels of oil/ petrol a day. If it had to add 70 million barrels to its storage, it would requure $millions to build the tanks (and the current refineries and storage facility locations dont lend themselves to expansion), and the additional cost of 70 million barrels at $100 a barrel.= $7 billion. The returns sought by businesses to have this money tied up, has potential to add 4 or 5 cents to a litre of petrol. It then leads them to having to compete with someone who just imports oil/petrol, and sells it just in time, with no desire for long term storage, and a more competitive selling price.

Additionally , if the government did play a roll, then they would seek to recoup the same costs, and simply add more tax to petrol.

[buggerlugs]

Business closing down everywhere, but the labour market is starting to pick up so we are told. Not sure where it is picking up..........

[olfella]

If we can stop live cattle export at the drop of a hat then why can't they do the same to us if they want to? I like to be self reliant and not rely on supposed good will.

[jpd80]

Surprising since Bulwer Id refines Sour Crude that other plants won't touch, the Metox units were working well
producing high octane after Alky plant closed due to upgraded safety risk assessment with Hydroflouric Acid.

To say that engineering and contractors were devastated would be an understatement.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by kaniSS

Once the last 4 refineries shut down, we are absolutely stuffed if a war breaks out.

But what about all the countless treaties that has Australia signed up to, all the safety that the UN provides, surely these pieces of paper will protect us (sarc)

If it was up to me, Govco should simply acquire the soon to be ex-BP refinery at zero dollars (BP did say they were closing it so presumable in their eyes it isn't worth anything), and then have Australian military trained run it.

Bingo we have a strategic national security asset and under our control.

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by kaniSS

Once the last 4 refineries shut down, we are absolutely stuffed if a war breaks out.

Whether we have our own refining capabilities or not is immaterial to our fuel security.If a war breaks out we can have 100 refineries, but they wont be getting crude to turn into refined product.
Dont confuse refining capacity to storage capacity, which costs money and will add to the cost of fuel.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by mechanic

Just as a point of interest, a university lecturer stated this morning that we now have 4 refineries left out of 8. Supposedly the other 4 are soon to be gone as well.
We also are the only country to leave storage to private enterprise with the end result we are now the only country to have less than 90 days fuel supply in the event of a major mishap somewhere.
While I'm personally dead against big government, maybe secure fuel supply is a no go area for the corporations.

Surprisingly the Shell refinery in Geelong is staying open after it was bought out, which no one expected to happen, everyone thought it was going to become an import terminal but the new owners have declared it will stay on as a refinery.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by danzvtil

Whether we have our own refining capabilities or not is immaterial to our fuel security.If a war breaks out we can have 100 refineries, but they wont be getting crude to turn into refined product.
Dont confuse refining capacity to storage capacity, which costs money and will add to the cost of fuel.

Excellent point. But remember it takes less storage to store 1000 barrels of petrol/ deisel etc, than it does to store the barrels of crude oil to make 1000 barrels of petrol / deisel etc. Only 80 to 85 % of a barrel of crude is converted into a transport fuel.

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Surprising since Bulwer Id refines Sour Crude that other plants won't touch, the Metox units were working well
producing high octane after Alky plant closed due to upgraded safety risk assessment with Hydroflouric Acid.

To say that engineering and contractors were devastated would be an understatement.

I was at the refinery in a role that had me heavily involved with the merox unit and the mothballing of the alky. The decision to mothball the alky was so sudden it effectively saw workers being turned away at the gates as they had been recruited to start a major project to upgrade it. Cost millions, but saved many more in an effort to ensure the refineries viability.Bottom line is ,it's a private business that can not compete in the marketplace to provide a service...and believe me, I have some idea of the costs involved in supplying that service.

[ILLaViTaR]

Damn, their diamond mines must only have 10^18 billion tonnes of rock left.

Times must be tough when you're in one of the most lucrative industries in the world and moan about financial hardship. How is this system expected to work/survive when all the money required to keep it stimulated is being sequestered by billion dollar companies? It's very survival depends on people spending money for gods sake.

85 people richer than half the world. That's a scary fact, you think they can/do spent all that money? They're the problem.