Unions will be the death of Australian car manufacturing

[superyob]

Originally Posted by ivorya

That is the issue here......

ATTITUDES must change.
When does the guilt kick in for Bosses when they are calling for employee wage drops, sackings when they still take home $80000+, and the lerks and perks?

I've never seen anyone from management give to hoots.

Would you take a pay cut or demand your employees to?

This attitude is simply socialist self entitlement...

[SB076]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Oh GREAT idea. Can't comprehend "no sales = no money" but want to see a detailed P&L?

Agreed, no point opening books unless all can read, understand and comprehend what is going on, otherwise it can get very messy.

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Pizza boy... When you've been in fairdinkum fulltime employment, THEN you can comment!
Absolutely sick to death of your garbage posts!

52-58hrs 6 days a week on average, 2-3am finishes to 8am starts twice a week. No sick leave, annual leave, employments rights either.
Absolutely sick to death of your propaganda and bullying! You'd think after being so off the mark like every single time you have a go with this vitriol you'd learn to stop making fantasy statements.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

52-58hrs 6 days a week on average, 2-3am finishes to 8am starts twice a week. No sick leave, annual leave, employments rights either.

So you work for yourself then? (these are the conditions that most self employed people work under)

Or you're a casual employee, in which case you get more money than a fulltime one.

But No Employment rights? Gimmie a break!

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

So you work for yourself then? (these are the conditions that most self employed people work under)

Or you're a casual employee, in which case you get more money than a fulltime one.

But No Employment rights? Gimmie a break!

Not really it was only 52-58hrs (6 days of 9-10hr shifts) sitting in my ed manual with the music going with red bulls and smokes, I was home every day/night with 6-8 leisure time. No harder than a normal 9-5 job, it was local and didn't have to spend 1-2hrs a day on public transport to the cbd and back. Therefore i'd say it's no more than a normal job. Point is I was loyal, sacrificed my social life (lol), and was getting up and going to bed merely to work there (i was their main bs number 1 loyal teenager I was the longest standing employee there out of hundreds besides 2 workers that were archaic before the owner bought the franchise). I should've been full time plain and simple if I was working there. That's why it's bs. I was a throwaway employee, had no rights if I needed a break it was up to them not me (unlike full time...).

[Lotte]

Is this thread now a ****ing contest between who has it harder, employers or employees?

What a joke. Without one, you ultimately cannot have the other, so here's a novel idea. How about we respect each other and the roles we play in the workforce?
Sure, there's going to be some cumquats of employees; by the same token there's some douche bags of employers (I'm including directors, ceos etc in that one), but for the most part, working together is far more beneficial for both.

As others have said, there needs to be an attitude change, on both sides. And this thread is solid evidence of it.

[ILLaViTaR]

No one here is denying there are good bosses. Only that it is taboo here to acknowledge there are bad ones.

[Lotte]

And nowhere have I alluded to something otherwise.

[ILLaViTaR]

oh not at all I was referring specifically to the responses to my personal experience (that is apparently imaginary and non-existant )

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Lotte

(I'm including directors, ceos etc in that one), but for the most part, working together is far more beneficial for both.

How many of these are actually worth the $$$ that they get?

How many times do you hear about them rooting a company and walking away with a "golden handshake".

Or internal politics effecting operations because of egos between high level managers who report to CEO.

Our one got stabbed in the back, but he actually owned the properties we were all working out of, so he did something nasty like jacking up rents across all our operations or something so the new CEO decided to move us into different factories across Vic, NSW and QLD at the time.

State manager wouldn't actually tell us what happened apart from new CEO running the organisation and old CEO owning properties so we were guessing but all of a sudden there was a real estate board out the front of the shop and everyone across the country had to relocate.

Big backwards step, we ended up from something built within the last 5 years to something decrepid which was a glorified tin shed from the early 90s which hadn't been maintained, costing $400K/year in rent.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

How many of these are actually worth the $$$ that they get?

How many times do you hear about them rooting a company and walking away with a "golden handshake".

Or internal politics effecting operations because of egos between high level managers who report to CEO.

Our one got stabbed in the back, but he actually owned the properties we were all working out of, so he did something nasty like jacking up rents across all our operations or something so the new CEO decided to move us into different factories across Vic, NSW and QLD at the time.

State manager wouldn't actually tell us what happened apart from new CEO running the organisation and old CEO owning properties so we were guessing but all of a sudden there was a real estate board out the front of the shop and everyone across the country had to relocate.

Big backwards step, we ended up from something built within the last 5 years to something decrepid which was a glorified tin shed from the early 90s which hadn't been maintained, costing $400K/year in rent.

Careful, don't be tarring every CEO with the same brush. The same thing can be done with any employee in any industry.

Can you tell me how much a CEO is worth? Let's say the Commonwealth Bank CEO. Runs a multi-billion $ organisation, has many employees, boards, shareholders and various other stakeholders to answer to.
Is the PUBLIC face of the company and has to steer the company through various situations and strategies to ensure it is competitive with the other 3 big banks and across the globe.

Let me ask you, was Alan Mullaly worth every cent?

I'd love to earn the $$ these guys get but I don't think I could do the job they do. It isn't 9 - 5 job like people think where afterwards they go out partying and the like. Many of these CEOs are there before the minions get in and are there long after they're gone.

The golden handshake is a predetermined figure approved by the board of directors and subsequent shareholders.

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Oh GREAT idea. Can't comprehend "no sales = no money" but want to see a detailed P&L?

Funny Man....

[Lotte]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

How many of these are actually worth the $$$ that they get?

How many times do you hear about them rooting a company and walking away with a "golden handshake".

Or internal politics effecting operations because of egos between high level managers who report to CEO.

Our one got stabbed in the back, but he actually owned the properties we were all working out of, so he did something nasty like jacking up rents across all our operations or something so the new CEO decided to move us into different factories across Vic, NSW and QLD at the time.

State manager wouldn't actually tell us what happened apart from new CEO running the organisation and old CEO owning properties so we were guessing but all of a sudden there was a real estate board out the front of the shop and everyone across the country had to relocate.

Big backwards step, we ended up from something built within the last 5 years to something decrepid which was a glorified tin shed from the early 90s which hadn't been maintained, costing $400K/year in rent.

I do love writing leading posts. I knew I'd get someone. This is exactly what I mean. It ignores the many good CEO's (and there are lots, you just don't hear about them because, let's face, nothing short of a scandal will sell papers). There are, of course a handful that should be booted (Aus Posts CEO comes to mind....).

But basically what Wretched said.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by superyob

This attitude is simply socialist self entitlement...

As opposed to the alternative far right capitalism we have imported from America? The one that likes to link caring for others or the community as socialism. Socialism of course being just one step away from Communism, which of course implies your a dirty communist for caring.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

As opposed to the alternative far right capitalism we have imported from America? The one that likes to link caring for others or the community as socialism. Socialism of course being just one step away from Communism, which of course implies your a dirty communist for caring.

Grow up.
Even the COMMUNISTS have embraced capitalism, because it is the only economic system that works.
And before you rubbish America, why not actually take a real look. They practically invented philanthropy.
And the joke of it is that the problems you see were created NOT by their capitalism, but by the gaps left by their feeble attempts at egalitarianism.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

No one here is denying there are good bosses. Only that it is taboo here to acknowledge there are bad ones.

Ironically, the "us vs them" mentality has made this worse.
I have observed over two decades just how insular the "top-end" is in Australia. It's like the old-boys network, without the club-ties. Audit Partners, Senior Legal Counsel, "Independent" Directors, executive Directors, and Executive Management ALL have their snouts in the same trough.
I'm not suggesting unions are to blame for this, only that treading EVERYBODY from Foreman up and EVERY small business operator as "The Enemy," has made it worse.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Grow up.
Even the COMMUNISTS have embraced capitalism, because it is the only economic system that works.
And before you rubbish America, why not actually take a real look. They practically invented philanthropy.
And the joke of it is that the problems you see were created NOT by their capitalism, but by the gaps left by their feeble attempts at egalitarianism.

Last time I looked Russia wasn't doing so well for itself, or most of its people think so anyway.

Confidence in Democracy and Capitalism Wanes in Former Soviet Union

Two decades after the Soviet Union’s collapse, Russians, Ukrainians, and Lithuanians are unhappy with the direction of their countries and disillusioned with the state of their politics. Enthusiasm for democracy and capitalism has waned considerably over the past 20 years, and most believe the changes that have taken place since 1991 have had a negative impact on public morality, law and order, and standards of living.

http://www.pewglobal.org/2011/12/05/...-soviet-union/

Now, 25 years later, events should prompt a reconsideration of the end of the Soviet Union, especially because the possible disintegration of Ukraine is but one of many political and economic crises among the ex-Soviet republics. In a previous article in oDR I showed that per capita income in Ukraine today remains 20 percent below what it was in 1990 when the country was a republic of the Soviet Union – not a signal of success.

http://www.opendemocracy.net/od-russ...on-of-progress

Seems like the people inside that former communist state are worse off under their "democracy" than they were under the iron curtain.

What works really well for us doesn't work really well for everyone, I thought we might have learnt that one by now with our follies in the Middle East.

[Charliewool]

Aint that the truth comrade

[BHDOGS]

yes apparently the European powers coming in making up new country's in the middle easy drawing up borders based on some geriatrics hand movements wasnt a wise decision. The middle easy is due for some border realignment.

[Auslandau]

Took a democratic vote .... thread closed.