Uber is illegal in Victoria...

[Trump]

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/ub...04-glfcly.html

Why the hell does everything people do need government sanction... oh wait so they can tax the **** out of it.

[simon varley]

but legal in ACT.

[Franco Cozzo]

Even I think this stinks and I look like a younger, fatter Daniel Andrews.

[sprintman1]

Victoria always the 'police state'. 2 1/2 years there was more than enough for a lifetime!

[SumoDog68]

It is a service that disrupts regulated industry. Say you buy a bus and decide to drive around and charge people for your service but don't comply with any of the regulations . Or maybe buy a fire truck and offer your services to the public via the app? How do you think that would go ?
Competition is great if everyone involved plays under the same rules.

[Wretched]

Ah good old Victoria, still unsure how we achieved most livable city.

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by simon varley

but legal in ACT.

So is all the fun stuff!

[Adamz Ghia]

We have Uber a go and liked it but if a cab was available we'd use them, but now after seeing their reaction to Uber we will not use a taxi again while Uber is available. They don't want Uber playing by the same rules, they want Uber gone and their monopoly retained. The public have spoken and no government will be able to outlaw Uber for ever.

[Silver Ghia]

Are these uber cars registered as hire cars and pay insurance for paying passengers accordingly?

Or are they privately registered, which is where I can see a problem?

[b0son]

IIRC, Uber corporation provide the insurance on behalf of the driver.

[dead_man00124]

and they are privately registered,

Ubers insurance kicks in if the persons own insurance company doesnt come to the party, however iirc NRMA will cover a driver if its not there primary job.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by b0son

IIRC, Uber corporation provide the insurance on behalf of the driver.

I wonder how an insurance claim can be lodged against something which is illegal and shouldn't be providing its service in the first place?

[Trump]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

It is a service that disrupts regulated industry. Say you buy a bus and decide to drive around and charge people for your service but don't comply with any of the regulations . Or maybe buy a fire truck and offer your services to the public via the app? How do you think that would go ?
Competition is great if everyone involved plays under the same rules.

The rules are the worst enemy of competition.

And disruptive technology and methods are the drivers of innovation and necessary change. And the legal system isn't exactly amenable to such change.

[Express]

Originally Posted by cheap

I wonder how an insurance claim can be lodged against something which is illegal and shouldn't be providing its service in the first place?

It was reported recently in the media that the Premier of NSW is talking about the possibility of allowing Uber to operate.

‘Inevitable’: Uber set to be legalised in NSW, according to report

23 November, 2015

THE NSW opposition leader has said the Government has waited far too long to regulate ride sharing services amid reports UberX is set to be legalised in the state.

However, NSW Premier Mike Baird has said an announcement will only be made on ride sharing once Cabinet has considered an independent report on technological changes in the industry.

The NSW Taxi Council said proposals to regulate ride sharing services were “premature”.

Changes to the taxi industry allowing the controversial car sharing service will be formally announced by the state government later on Monday, the Daily Telegraph reported.

Under the changes, UberX drivers will be required to pay a licence fee while taxi drivers will receive compensation for losing exclusivity.

The change was seen as “inevitable”, a Government source was quoted as saying.

If NSW does give the green light to ride sharing, it will follow the ACT which last month became the first Australian government to legalise and regulate ride sharing with the online transport business.

UberX, where private car owners offer rides to the public, is distinct to the standard — and legal — Uber service that connects established taxi drivers to passengers by way of an app.

In the capital, ride sharing vehicles and drivers have to be accredited and registered with attention paid to criminal records, driving histories and five-year health assessments.

Vehicles must also pass safety checks and be fully insured with compulsory third-party and property insurance requirements. UberX drivers are not able to pick up passengers on Canberra’s streets, nor are they allowed to pick up from taxi ranks.

Similar to the ACT, under the changes flagged in NSW, UberX drivers will be forced to undergo more safety checks and pay licence fees, the Telegraph reports.

But this morning, Premier Baird tried to hose down speculation an announcement was imminent. He told 2GB Radio that an independent report into ride sharing had been commissioned “but it is yet to go beyond that, so obviously that report will be considered as part of the due process of government and go to cabinet in good time.”

NSW opposition leader, Luke Foley, said the Government had hoped Uber would go away but “it was never going to work”.

“The Government has waved the white flag today and has recognised Uber is here to stay,” he said this morning.

“We ought to be smart about how we regulate [ride sharing] and I welcome that belated recognition from the Government there’s no other way forward.”

Greens NSW MP and transport spokeswoman Dr Mehreen Faruqi welcomed reports Uber would be legalised and said the NSW Government had “finally gotten with the times”.

“You can’t just ban these services out of existence, and to be frank, the legal limbo has gone on for too long already,” she said.

“Provided that stakeholders have been consulted widely, including taxi drivers, the proper safety checks are in place, and licences awarded only to appropriate services, this is good news.”

The NSW Taxi Council has been running a campaign called ‘ride sharing — it’s not worth the risk’ highlighting what it says are the dangers of using the unregulated services.

In a statement, the peak body for the state’s taxi industry said they had sought “urgent clarification” on the reports which appeared to be “premature to a proper Government announcement on this complex and critical issue”.

“The NSW Taxi Council is not opposed to well-considered reform of the NSW taxi industry and the point to point transport sector generally,” said the statement. “However, any such reform must ensure safe, reliable and quality taxi transport services through a proper and enforceable level playing field for all point to point transport operators.”

http://www.news.com.au/finance/busin...39fdca7db35a78



Which brings me to my question – how many States is it actually illegal in or is it currently operating in a grey unregulated area?

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by dead_man00124

and they are privately registered,

Ubers insurance kicks in if the persons own insurance company doesnt come to the party, however iirc NRMA will cover a driver if its not there primary job.

How about TAC insurance if a passenger is injured in an accident, considering the vehicle was privately registered?

And being privately registered would be a sticking point with Vicroads.

Easy to see the legal problems, here in Vic anyway.

[Express]

UberX effect: price of NSW taxi licence plates crashes by a quarter in a month

Date December 2, 2015

Matt O'Sullivan
Transport Reporter

The price of taxi licence plates in NSW has crashed by almost a quarter in the past month amid speculation the Baird government will legalise ride-sharing services such as UberX.

The transfer value of a taxi licence in the state dropped to $228,500 in November, down from an average price of $302,666 a month earlier, the latest government figures show.

While the value of plates has been falling since reaching a high of about $425,000 in late 2011 – due partly to the issuing of more licences – the decline has accelerated over the past year as Uber extended its reach into the market.

Since November last year, the value of taxi plates has fallen by 38 per cent and is now at its lowest level since January 2002.

Taxi licence owners Theodora and Peter Sorras said the slump was upsetting because they had bought a plate for $370,000 two years ago from the government in good faith.

When they bought the taxi licence, the Bankstown couple saw it as a long-term investment that would aid their retirement.

"It's really upsetting to see someone working hard and doing all of the right things," Mrs Sorras said. "It is quite a large upfront sum of money just to start the business and many people put their homes up as collateral to purchase it."

She blamed the entry of Uber to the market for much of the decline in the value of plates.

Cabinet is shortly due to consider recommendations from an independent report on ride-sharing, which is widely expected to result in the Baird government legalising UberX.

The most recent figures from the smartphone-based ride-sharing service show it has more than 330,000 users and about 4000 drivers in NSW, the vast majority of whom are in Sydney.

NSW Taxi Council chief executive Roy Wakelin-King said the latest statistics on the fall in value of licence plates were a "real concern" and the peak group was seeking clarification from Transport for NSW about how they were compiled.

"We are not sure of their statistical reliability but there is significant uncertainty out there and it's unclear what the future looks like," he said.

Mr Wakelin-King said uncertainty in the market about "illegal ride-sharing" and recent media speculation about whether the government would legalise UberX had "not been helpful".

The taxi council wants the government to resolve the status of ride-sharing expeditiously but "not with undue haste".

Mr Wakelin-King said the council wanted the government to compensate licence owners if minimum industry standards were changed and ride-sharing services such as UberX legalised. Other industries such as dairying had received assistance when major adjustments had been thrust upon them.

Premier Mike Baird has said the government wants a "level playing field" for taxi drivers who made a significant upfront investment when they bought licence plates

The state's pricing regulator advised the government late last year to freeze taxi fares and keep taxi licence numbers steady in Sydney due to increasing competition from hire cars and ride-sharing services. Its rationale has been that increasing fares will only encourage more passengers to choose alternative transport more often, eroding the competitiveness of taxis.

Since 2009, the Independent Pricing and Regulatory Tribunal has been eager for short-term licences to be issued in Sydney in a bid to reduce the cost of catching a cab and the cost of plates.

"The most significant contributor [to the fall in licence values] prior to the arrival of ride-sharing has been the number of licences released onto the road largely due to IPART's recommendations," Mr Wakelin-King said. "That has led to an oversupply of taxis in Sydney."

NSW has almost 7100 taxi plates, about 5700 of which are in Sydney. According to IPART, about 70 per cent of taxi operators do not own a taxi licence but pay lease fees to the owner, or hold an annual taxi licence.

Opposition Leader Luke Foley has called for owners of taxi licence plates to be paid some form of compensation if the government decides to legalise ride-sharing.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/uberx-effe...02-gldcs3.html

[MITCHAY]

I can understand why the taxi industry is upset with rise of Uber.

Taxi drivers often work unsociable hours, deal with unreasonable people for not a lot of money when basically anyone with a smart phone can drive people around without all the regulatory burden and associated costs which is what eats into what the driver takes home.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

The rules are the worst enemy of competition.

And disruptive technology and methods are the drivers of innovation and necessary change. And the legal system isn't exactly amenable to such change.

It is obvious that uber has picked up on customer dissatisfaction in the area of taxi services worldwide. Since people are so unhappy about existing service not many are feeling the sympathy for the taxi industry . If this was happening in a different industry things might of been different.
Regardless of that uber x seems to fall under hire car rules . That in Victoria means the driver should be accredited (cost $40k plus yearly fee and car type and age is specified) .

Some interesting reading here :
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-1...-check/6846512

[sprintman1]

Uber are going ballistic in the ACT. The taxi industry has well and truly been placed on notice.

[tonys6550]

Originally Posted by tempted

Give it time and Uber will eventually succeed. The taxi industry had this coming and I feel no sympathy for them whatsoever. For years we have put up with filthy unmaintained cabs, clueless drivers who cannot speak English, don't know where they're going and reek of BO, drivers that try sneaky tactics to increase fares, drivers refusing short fares.... the list goes on.
I wish Uber every success and I'm sure they will eventually prevail once this clueless and idiotic Victorian state government is thrown out of office.

This. 👍

If nothing else, it will clean up the abhorrent industry in my opinion.
Besides, a little competition is good for consumerism. Bring it on Uber!

[marty351]

Capitalism vs socialism.

I know which side I'm on.

[sprintman1]

If you want to know how taxis should be, read The Knowledge or watch the movie of the same name about getting a lic for a London taxi. Some try for 7 years and still fail.

[Jastel]

Uber X is illegal in all states of Australia except the ACT.
There it is regulated, not as much as a taxi but enough so that people treat it a serious business not just a fad. It does have correct registration and insurance.

Illegal Uber X drivers have NO insurance, if you are inside the car and you get injured or even if you are hit by one driving past. You cannot get insurance for an illegal act. Same as drink driving.
Nobody has seen Uber's fabled coverage...it has been tested many times overseas and for some reason they always settle out of court.

EVERYBODIES insurance and rego will go up as accident rates rise.

Most of their drivers get jack of it as soon as the first major expense ie accident or breakdown occurs or just get a real job eventually. So you are forever getting new drivers who have no experience. In most overseas cities Uber drivers are forming unions and demanding higher fares and better conditions.

Uber drivers can be 0.049...taxi drivers must be 0.00.
There are no medical checks, limited background checks or limits on the hours they drive.

They don't have to pick people up who are disabled, or live a long way out of town, there are no minimum service standards, no way to complain (except facebook), or get back lost property. Remember one day you will get old and need the help of a taxi driver with your groceries and bags.

The government is not doing anything about it as they know they will have to pay compensation to the existing owners if an unregulated uber is allowed.

Sure Taxis are not perfect, no business is... but most other businesses abide by the law, pay taxes and spend money in the local area, get the correct licenses and permits that are required by government for YOUR safety. I would happily not pay all the additional expenses I MUST PAY by LAWS voted in by YOU, the PUBLIC for YOUR SAFETY and in return drop prices by 30%...except in the time when people actually want transport...then I will SURGE price 500% as YOU, THE PUBLIC wanted more cars.
This is what uber does and the public approve it??

Be careful what you wish for if the big bad taxi monopoly is destroyed...(and replaced with a bigger, badder OVERSEAS monopoly)
Just see how much actual service you get from uber outside of the busy CBD areas.

For the other side of the coin see the facebook page "You've Been Ubered"

And as most of you know I am in the taxi business as are many others on this forum.

Use it at your own risk....

[Express]

I’m not advocating Uber but I was in a Taxi today and the thing smelt of cigarette smoke where the driver had been smoking outside the car and then dragged it in with him as I walked up to get in.

It was a Ford Station Wagon, dilapidated inside and out with a noisy knock in the rear.

The driver drove too fast, tailgated and erratically lane changed for no gain while I kept pressing my foot to the floor in a futile attempt to have some control and our conversation about the overpriced housing market ended in a huff when I told him I wasn’t in that big a hurry and to slow down a bit.

I won’t complain about giving him directions as I know if I wasn’t willing to do that he did have a GPS that would have gotten me there without too much concern.

For the pleasure of using his service I paid $42.00.

I made a point this evening of lodging a complaint through their website.

I rarely use Taxis and I know there are good and bad but I can understand if someone has to experience what I did today on a regular basis why they would look for an alternative legal or not.

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by Jastel

Uber X is illegal in all states of Australia except the ACT.
There it is regulated, not as much as a taxi but enough so that people treat it a serious business not just a fad. It does have correct registration and insurance.

Illegal Uber X drivers have NO insurance, if you are inside the car and you get injured or even if you are hit by one driving past. You cannot get insurance for an illegal act. Same as drink driving.
Nobody has seen Uber's fabled coverage...it has been tested many times overseas and for some reason they always settle out of court.

EVERYBODIES insurance and rego will go up as accident rates rise.

Most of their drivers get jack of it as soon as the first major expense ie accident or breakdown occurs or just get a real job eventually. So you are forever getting new drivers who have no experience. In most overseas cities Uber drivers are forming unions and demanding higher fares and better conditions.

Uber drivers can be 0.049...taxi drivers must be 0.00.
There are no medical checks, limited background checks or limits on the hours they drive.

They don't have to pick people up who are disabled, or live a long way out of town, there are no minimum service standards, no way to complain (except facebook), or get back lost property. Remember one day you will get old and need the help of a taxi driver with your groceries and bags.

The government is not doing anything about it as they know they will have to pay compensation to the existing owners if an unregulated uber is allowed.

Sure Taxis are not perfect, no business is... but most other businesses abide by the law, pay taxes and spend money in the local area, get the correct licenses and permits that are required by government for YOUR safety. I would happily not pay all the additional expenses I MUST PAY by LAWS voted in by YOU, the PUBLIC for YOUR SAFETY and in return drop prices by 30%...except in the time when people actually want transport...then I will SURGE price 500% as YOU, THE PUBLIC wanted more cars.
This is what uber does and the public approve it??

Be careful what you wish for if the big bad taxi monopoly is destroyed...(and replaced with a bigger, badder OVERSEAS monopoly)
Just see how much actual service you get from uber outside of the busy CBD areas.

For the other side of the coin see the facebook page "You've Been Ubered"

And as most of you know I am in the taxi business as are many others on this forum.

Use it at your own risk....

I used to work in retail, we often called taxis for our elderly customers. Every second cabbie (give or take) sat in the car and waited for the person to load their own bags into the cab, quite often we had to assist. There are some awesome cabbies out there, I know several, but service standards need a huge boot in the backside.

Outside of the CBD, if Uber isn't there then taxis have nothing to worry about. As for the CBD, there are letters to the paper almost daily about cabbies refusing short fares, and I've had it happen to me. I needed to get from Southern Cross to Melbourne Park, it was pouring rain and my fare was refused. Let's not get started on Melbourne Airport. Good luck near by.

Competition is good. Everyone complains about Coles vs Woolies and want greater competition, why is this different? The ACCC is concerned the banks blocking Apple Pay is denying consumers choice, right now the government is denying consumers choice. Sure, fix the regulations so it's more level, but for too long the taxi industry took its monopoly for granted. It's long overdue for a shake up.

[tonys6550]

Originally Posted by Jastel

Uber X is illegal in all states of Australia except the ACT.
There it is regulated, not as much as a taxi but enough so that people treat it a serious business not just a fad. It does have correct registration and insurance.

Illegal Uber X drivers have NO insurance, if you are inside the car and you get injured or even if you are hit by one driving past. You cannot get insurance for an illegal act. Same as drink driving.
Nobody has seen Uber's fabled coverage...it has been tested many times overseas and for some reason they always settle out of court.

EVERYBODIES insurance and rego will go up as accident rates rise.

Most of their drivers get jack of it as soon as the first major expense ie accident or breakdown occurs or just get a real job eventually. So you are forever getting new drivers who have no experience. In most overseas cities Uber drivers are forming unions and demanding higher fares and better conditions.

Uber drivers can be 0.049...taxi drivers must be 0.00.
There are no medical checks, limited background checks or limits on the hours they drive.

They don't have to pick people up who are disabled, or live a long way out of town, there are no minimum service standards, no way to complain (except facebook), or get back lost property. Remember one day you will get old and need the help of a taxi driver with your groceries and bags.

The government is not doing anything about it as they know they will have to pay compensation to the existing owners if an unregulated uber is allowed.

Sure Taxis are not perfect, no business is... but most other businesses abide by the law, pay taxes and spend money in the local area, get the correct licenses and permits that are required by government for YOUR safety. I would happily not pay all the additional expenses I MUST PAY by LAWS voted in by YOU, the PUBLIC for YOUR SAFETY and in return drop prices by 30%...except in the time when people actually want transport...then I will SURGE price 500% as YOU, THE PUBLIC wanted more cars.
This is what uber does and the public approve it??

Be careful what you wish for if the big bad taxi monopoly is destroyed...(and replaced with a bigger, badder OVERSEAS monopoly)
Just see how much actual service you get from uber outside of the busy CBD areas.

For the other side of the coin see the facebook page "You've Been Ubered"

And as most of you know I am in the taxi business as are many others on this forum.

Use it at your own risk....

Thumbs up to anyone that is trying to make an honest living.

But, there is a reason why Uber are so successful. People vote with there wallets and the people are speaking loudly.
The taxi industry is trying to clean up there act and keep up with technology, too little too late in my opinion.
People have had to put up with a sub-standard outdated service for a very long time, then a superior service comes along and people gobble it up, why, it's simple really, customer satisfaction.

[MITCHAY]

There are plenty of bad taxi drivers of which I have had terrible experiences with but more often than not they are just a bloke trying to make a living doing a **** job. No worse than any other ******** on the road.

It's one thing to have competition but it really is not a level playing field is it?

[msman]

most people have been pulled in by the poor pr of taxi's and polished stuff from uber.
i.e.
uber drivers take home 80% of the fare
bull****
driver gets 80% and must then pay for fuel/rego/maintenance and the car itself
taxi drivers in vic get 55%, car owner 45%, that 55% percent is purely theres only tax/gst to pay, all car related expenses are paid by the owner

your safer with uber
how?
driver is not accredited so no background/police check, no medical to pass
vehicle is not licensed so no insurance vehicle/property/tac and no yearly roadworthy or even routine suprise inspections from the taxi commission, no security camera in car, max car age (taxi is 6.5yr then off the road)

taxi industry is ****ed because to provide the service legally we pay $24K a year in license cost, $2700 for rego, $2000 insurance, then the associated cost to link up with a provider that relays jobs.

got no probs with uber, bring more in but either they pay the same costs that are currently in law or get rid of the costs for all.

also the $40K hire car license fee mentioned above is a one-off to purchase it with ongoing yearly linces fees being a few hundred.

[sprintman1]

They could of course introduce The Knowledge as used by the Public Carriage Office in London. But it's Orstralia and that would take commitment and planning and there's Buckley's chance of that happening!

[msman]

Originally Posted by sprintman1

They could of course introduce The Knowledge as used by the Public Carriage Office in London. But it's Orstralia and that would take commitment and planning and there's Buckley's chance of that happening!

there is a new license test which must be sat by any new drivers or those who have held a license for less than 5 years.

also people do realise london can have this quite difficult test because they charge astonishing fares and thus the job is sought after.

also at the moment all that is happening is new taxi drivers who are failing the test are just joining uber so how is uber going to provide a better service with people who cannot pass the test to become cabbies?