Question on MB/MC and DPF

Pent · 15-01-2016, 02:36 PM

Hi,
First time poster. Potential purchasing a TDCI Mondeo. Also looking at different cars as well.

I am trying to decide between a couple of examples. Leaning towards Wagons/SUVs at this point. Mix of LX and Zetecs.

Two around 80/90km Built 09/2012 Zetec Wagon. One comes with 6 months Warranty. Both interstate.

Other is Built 10/2010 Zetec Wagon with under 50k available privately.
All are Ford serviced and have had there 60k service done on time.

Obviously the 2010 can be had cheaper and has lower kms, but I am a bit worried. The owner has a couple of cars and his commute involves about 12kms of driving each way, and from what I gather these are a mix of 70k and lower speed roads(not exactly city driving) and no freeway/motorways hence the low mileage.

Should I be concerned that the DPF might be well on the way to be clogged up and may cause trouble in the future ? Would Ford normally pick this up in normal servicing ?

Also I was under the impression MC began manufacturing in Nov/Dec 2010. The grills, lights are definitely MC and has the DSG box.

Also I am thinking that the 2012 model probably have improved versions of of gearbox, engine,electronics since they are 2 year newer build dates hence less potential problems

Others I am looking are are 04/2012 LX Wagon and late 2013 LX Hatch 70k (with extras and factory warranty) . Not Exclusively ford serviced but have had the 60k done.

Any suggestions ? Am I thinking too much about DPF,DSG issues.

thanks

Pent · 15-01-2016, 03:10 PM

Also, the 10/2010 Zetec owner mentioned he gets around 700-800kms per tank.. Thats a tad low right ?. The LX Wagon owner and some other I spoke to mentioned over a 1000kms depending on driving habits

cobrin · 15-01-2016, 07:12 PM

if you're worried about the dpf a long drive out in the open hwy to blast out soot when at full operating temp should solve that.

The DCT (Dual Clutch Transmission) shouldn't be a big concern but more like something to keep monitoring, sure you're going to get (at low speeds) some shuddering, that's almost in it's nature but it's not a wide spread issue across the board, though some have had issues.

You'll know when you've got issues with either dpf or dct, though not always get a notification on an issue in the lead up.

oil and fluid servicing is key, so get the right stuff (DPF suitable) and DCT intervals shorter than Manufacturer spec if that worries you.

if you have the VIN number go check the vehicle spec's

http://tiny.cc/gm857x

as for fuel economy, that is largely dependent on driving style and environment, it's about right.

I often get 850-900kms in a '09 MB Mondeo and on a recent Holiday trip got my personal best, took this today cause I needed to fill up. Took 65L to fill. Though not hard to do when shooting for a good return.

Pent · 15-01-2016, 11:35 PM

Ok..great. thanks for the tip. So I shouldn't be too concerned just because it is a 2010 model. I have been playing with similar VIN check tools. The models look very similar between the different years.

Whats the best way to test the DCT. I read, to keep at constant speed and watch for surging ? Any other tips ?

When you floor the gas pedal, is the kick down supposed to be harsh unlike a conventional transmission.

cobrin · 16-01-2016, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pent

Whats the best way to test the DCT. I read, to keep at constant speed and watch for surging ? Any other tips ?

I'm guessing know how to drive with a DCT to get the most out of it. I've not owned a vehicle with DCT (prefer not to, hence the MB) so I can only say, wait for others to suggest tips.

NZ XR6 · 16-01-2016, 06:36 AM

The ECU initiates a purge cycle to burn the deposits off the DPF at regular intervals. I'm not sure how often, maybe hundreds of km? You won't know it's happened if you're cruising around 100 km/h, but you can hear a change in engine note for a few minutes if it happens at lower speeds.

So if the car drives OK, I wouldn't worry about the DPF. The MB economy you've mentioned is pretty good for short commutes.

It's worth noting that the Ford oil spec. is NOT for a low SAPS oil, which should be used in DPF equipped engines. I've used a Total oil since mine was out of warranty. So a non-Ford service history could well be better, as they've probably used the "correct" oil. There are a few threads on this here.

I own a late model MB (love it, will be 5 years old next month), and am happy with the 6-speed auto. I use it manual mode sometimes, works well with the diesel. I've driven MC Mondeos and definitely prefer the MB auto around town. But the Powershift would be good for open road driving.

Personally, I'd avoid an early MC because of possible Powershift problems, although the Ford box isn't the same disaster area as some of the VW DSG efforts.

When you "kickdown" a DSG box, it will sometimes downshift more than one gear. That can feel quite harsh, especially with a high torque diesel. I would definitely drive both models if you can, the MB and MC do drive differently, plus the MC is a little more economical.

Good luck, I'm sure you'll enjoy the Mondeo, especially if you carry passengers and/or a load. Far more room than most SUVs - there is no comparison with something like a Santa Fe.

Pent · 16-01-2016, 03:28 PM

Ok.. thanks heaps.. Unfortunately it will be used for my wifes work. Needs to be withing 5 years old. so needs to be first registered in 2011.

I will do some research on the oils as well.

ope126 · 16-01-2016, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pent

Ok.. thanks heaps.. Unfortunately it will be used for my wifes work. Needs to be withing 5 years old. so needs to be first registered in 2011.

I will do some research on the oils as well.

Here is some info on the oil, current Ford Spec - WSS-M2913-D
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...ght=mondeo+oil

ope126 · 16-01-2016, 04:28 PM

The 120kw TDCi engine is part of the PSA Group of engines (DW10 C/RHH); https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSA_EW/DW_engine

I am also lead to believe from Penrite that they run a "High Flow" DPF.

Pent · 16-01-2016, 10:06 PM

The information in the other thread is gold. thanks heaps.

NZ XR6 · 17-01-2016, 08:06 AM

There isn't actually that much info here on diesel engine oils. This is a pretty good summary on the TalkFord forum: http://www.talkford.com/community/to...and-standards/

rondeo · 17-01-2016, 09:53 AM

Just for a bit of amusement, here's a record of my email exchange with an oil company, I've edited out the brand details for fairness:

ME:

I'm inquiring about the difference between your long life diesel oil 'X'
and your Fuel Efficient diesel oil 'Y'.
My question is apart from fuel efficiency
and vehicle manufacturers approvals,
is there any difference in engine and DPF protection between these oils
in a modern 2.0 litre turbo diesel engine?
If so, would it be possible to give details?

OIL COMPANY MAN:

The 'Y' is the Fuel Efficient oil is not recommended for DPF VEHICLES
which is the differences you were asking about.
The 'X' is the correct oil for your car.

ME:

At the moment I am confused regarding
'Y' which according to the product
packaging meets Ford WSS-Mc2C913-B, which is the oil
specified in the Ford owner's service guide.
but you have said this oil is not suitable
for engines with DPF.

OIL COMPANY MAN:

You didn't give me enough information in your first email.
The ACEA requirements,and the Ford WSS-Mc2C913-B are slightly different in there SAPS which in la mans terms, left over products that end up in your DPF .
The Ford spec will meet the 'Y'
So it's ok to use

ope126 · 17-01-2016, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NZ XR6

There isn't actually that much info here on diesel engine oils. This is a pretty good summary on the TalkFord forum: http://www.talkford.com/community/to...and-standards/

Yeah that was a thread that I started back when I had the EcoBoost. But the reality is both Petrol and Diesel (in the Mondeo's case anyway) can use Ford Spec oil of WSS-M2913-D.
Try to keep it simple as there are plenty of threads online and the OP could have found this info by searching a little further. I just thought I would add a link just like you have that should have been able to help, or at least guide in the right direction. Not all the oil containers at your local store are branded with Ford Spec - WSS-M2913-D and might only have WSS-M2913-C and that is fine also.
From experience, I would not use any oil (regardless of brand) that is not meeting the Ford Spec!

ope126 · 17-01-2016, 10:42 AM

It looks like the guy on TalkFord has done a lot of research (which is great) but I still think he is off the mark. I would not use Ford Spec WSS-M2C934-B as it has not been specified for use in a Mondeo. This link should give some clarity to the specifications; http://www.oilspecifications.org/ford.php

If in doubt contact Ford AU direct or try the oil companies such as Penrite, Nulon, Castrol, Total, Motul etc...

They all have technical lines that can assist with questions.
Also all the oil companies have a "find the right oil" feature on their websites. Whichever brand you choose, I am sure they will recommend a 913C or 913D oil.

NZ XR6 · 17-01-2016, 12:29 PM

The oil finders on some websites not only come up with non-DPF oils, but also products that don't meet the Ford spec!

The dilemma of course, is use the oil that Ford specify, or use an appropriate oil for a Peugeot DPF diesel, which is why I use the Total Quartz Ineo ECS.

Of course, as I've said in another thread, if you're engine doesn't use any oil, then it shouldn't affect the DPF!

rondeo · 17-01-2016, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NZ XR6

The oil finders on some websites not only come up with non-DPF oils, but also products that don't meet the Ford spec!

The dilemma of course, is use the oil that Ford specify, or use an appropriate oil for a Peugeot DPF diesel, which is why I use the Total Quartz Ineo ECS.

Of course, as I've said in another thread, if you're engine doesn't use any oil, then it shouldn't affect the DPF!

I agree. Someone wanting to DIY oil change for the first time could be excused for being totally confused. The Mobil website for example recommends Mobil 1 ESP for MC diesel but Ford approval is not listed. The Penrite site recommends HPR diesel for MC diesel and then in fine print says it's definately not suitable for DPF vehicles. I think I might post a list of oils which claim to meet Ford specs, and are suitable for DPFs. I think it would be a very short list. Just common garden confusion I think.

Pent · 17-01-2016, 11:22 PM

thanks guys.
I found a nice MC LX Wagon. Not a Zetec/titanium I know, but I need to find a car pretty quickly. It was at a dealer. Car drove well. It was a ~28 degree day but I thing I did note was the A/C was very week. Car was out in the sun, but even about 25 mins of spirited driving, The A/C was weak. I know there is a lot of interior to cool, but I have had many Wagons before and this car had tints as well. The air out of the vents was strong but not cold enough. I dread to see what'll happen on 40+ days.

More importantly My toddlers in the the baby seats will be cooking.

From reading the other threads I now realise this car isn't all that great for its A/C. Others mention re-gassing solved the issue.
What do you guys think ? happy with your A/C.

NZ XR6 · 18-01-2016, 05:37 AM

The aircon isn't great but it should do better than that. It can take a few minutes to start to work if the car has been in the sun, but my MB is usually cool after 5 minutes.

The other trick is to use the remote to open all of the windows as you walk up to the car. It does help.

But our 18 year old Accord runabout can turn the car into a fridge in a couple of minutes, and the aircon has never been serviced!

stuart · 18-01-2016, 08:18 AM

Old topic - read the previous posts - just re-gas it, done

rondeo · 18-01-2016, 08:20 AM

Our two MC wagons are about 5 years without AC service, although not brilliant no-one is complaining. Mainly front seat occupants though. If performance is suspect I'd have it serviced and UV dye added which makes it easier to detect a small refrigerant leak.

Pent · 18-01-2016, 09:17 AM

cheer guys.. That's what I thought.. a re-gas... I will mention it to the dealer.

juzandbec · 20-01-2016, 09:34 PM

Unfortunately a re-gas does not = 'done' , as many have tried and this has not fixed the issue of perceived weak A/C. By all means though it is part of the trouble shooting but the Mondeo does not have good A/C

For those with climate control, I read somewhere instead of using manual settings, set the unit to AUTO - this worked for me and the A/C performed much better on really hot days although I still rate the A/C as the weakest of any car I have owned.

If you have manual control settings (LX I think) then tint windows, park out of the sun, get a front window sun shade when parked and use recirc as often as you can...