ATO cracks down on utes after helping make Hilux a best seller

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by mik

It wouldn't surprise me if ato was spying on people , the resources are there to track most peoples everyday comings and goings , big brother is watching !

It's against their policy and procedures to do this kind of surveillance. They don't have the money or man power to do it.

[mitelsx2000]

The ford ranger is the most popular vehicle in NZ. People are buying them for the looks not the tax issue. I would like a ranger as a second vehicle

[Twinkles]

Originally Posted by superyob

Is it not reasonable to assume that if tax breaks were not handed out for imported cars, our local utes may have sold in larger volume, thus helping to keep local manufacture alive???

No, local manufacturer quality is absolutely rubbish compared to overseas builds. Why would I buy a Ford or Holden ute, when I can't go four wheel driving in it? Why would I pay thousands more for substandard quality and less features than the competition?

[SYZ]

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

It's against their policy and procedures to do this kind of surveillance. They don't have the money or man power to do it.

Absolutely correct. Fairfax hack Jared Lynch wouldn't know if his nether regions were on fire until he smelt the smoke. It's typical that he's been sucked in by this sort of silly "rumour" that's been doing the rounds since cocky was an egg.

As if the ATO is gonna pay someone to trawl sports grounds, and physically note the regos of every ute parked there. I ran this past a licensed PI friend of ours who specialises in investigating government fraud—using surveillance—and he just laughed at the notion.

[Random Ranger]

Originally Posted by castellan

Most people I know have them dual cabs only because they have to have one for the kids or other workers at times, but can not afford 2 cars, so they have to put up with such rubbish that has only a small back and get a trailer as well if they need more space for work gear, also the tax benefit makes them go that way as well.

Such dual cab are a pain but many just have to put up with it, they really are just junk, have you ever sat in the back of one, they are hell if you are over 6ft or you want your backbone smashed to bits.
I would not ever get into the back of one if I was payed too.

Obviously there's a heap of people including me that have a different view to you, with Ranger at 3 Hilux at 4 Colorado at 8 and Navara at 9 in the top selling cars for January's Vfacts figures.

[Sabantien]

I can't imagine that many people buy them for some sort of tax break. I'm guessing you need an ABN to get the tax break in the first place, and if you don't actually use it they will cancel it on you.

I don't see the attraction myself (although the new Rangers look great) but that's the great thing about people and cars, every person is different, and there's a massive range of cars available.

The back seat thing doesn't bother me either. I'd not even particularly want to sit in the back seat of my Falcon, but the beauty of it is, it's my car, I don't sit in the back.

[Squalo]

My kids sometimes ask me to buy a GT or a F6, but they know it's futile. They know how much I love the practicality of the Patrol (and they do too!).

I had sedans for decades, but since buying the Territory, and then a Patrol, I could not ever again live with a sedan. I carry bicycles, skateboards, bodyboards etc. most weekends. The swimming/snorkelling gear for the four of us lives in the back most of the time. The rack on the roof takes our four kayaks. We are off the tarmac every second weekend at least. I guess where we live is a big part of it, but when I lived in Sydney I spent most weekends in national parks as well.

And then there's camping, and the Patrol allows us to camp wherever we feel like going, rather than where a two wheel drive sedan can take us.

Frankly, I don't understand why people continue to buy sedans, and I completely understand the dualcab obsession. Although I'd never buy a dualcab myself, they don't come even remotely close to the offroad capabilities and durability of Patrols and Landcruisers.

Ford and Holden completely failed to see this coming. They should have been producing the Aussie equivalents of the Patrol and Landcruiser since the early seventies.

As for the topic, it's a crock, as others have said. Quality journalism is dead, at least at the mainstream level.

[Elks]

Originally Posted by Sabantien

I can't imagine that many people buy them for some sort of tax break.

My old work tipped all of their sales and service people out of Commodores and Camrys into D-Max's. FBT saving of about $8k per annum per car X 25 vehicles.

Once they had their accountants verify and run the numbers it was game over.

Where's if the GovCo had no FBT on locally built cars the would all still be driving Commodores. And you would assume other businesses would still be in Falcons.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by tempted

About bloody time. The way the tax system supports the sales of these imported tractors is ludicrous. It's a pity it wasn’t done years ago, maybe local cars would have had a better chance of survival.

And what locally produced twin cab 4x4 or 2x4 vehicle would have been a suitable alternative to the "imported tractors"...? We wanted a twin cab ute...show me a locally built all-Aussie one made right here in Australia and we might have considered it.
If people want a twin cab four wheel drive there was no "local alternative"...

[Twinkles]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

And what locally produced twin cab 4x4 or 2x4 vehicle would have been a suitable alternative to the "imported tractors"...? We wanted a twin cab ute...show me a locally built all-Aussie one made right here in Australia and we might have considered it.
If people want a twin cab four wheel drive there was no "local alternative"...

Are you saying a single cab 2wd falcon ute with next to no clearance and low profile alloy wheels, isn't the perfect solution to all of Australia's problems? Heresy!

[Twinkles]

Originally Posted by tempted

You have completely misinterpreted what I was trying to say.

Look at Elks' post above yours for reference.

Locally built cars were abandoned for utes, for the sole purpose of the fbt saving.
If the fbt exemption wasn't offered on utes only, people most likely would have continued buying regular sedans.

If the government was serious about supporting local industry they would have offered fbt exemption all locally buily cars.

That is my argument. It has nothing to do with an equivalent local 4x4 ute.

The government gave the local manufacturers multiple opportunities, they failed because of mismanagement and poor quality products.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by tempted

You have completely misinterpreted what I was trying to say.

Look at Elks' post above yours for reference.

Locally built cars were abandoned for utes, for the sole purpose of the fbt saving.
If the fbt exemption wasn't offered on utes only, people most likely would have continued buying regular sedans.

If the government was serious about supporting local industry they would have offered fbt exemption all locally buily cars.

That is my argument. It has nothing to do with an equivalent local 4x4 ute.

I think you're assuming everyone has an ABN and only buys twin cabs and vehicles like the Hilux for an FBT benefit and that's why no one bought local sedans... And they did offer tax exemptions on locally built cars...it's just that a Falcon or Commodore sedan didn't suit business needs for most companies, and utes were used more than sedans. For business usage, why wouldn't you buy the most versatile vehicle available rather than just a big six cylinder sedan merely because it's made here?
In Queensland for one point there's a big incentive to buying something like a twin cab over a Falcon or Commodore..."registration costs". It adds up, especially for small businesses where every dollar counts.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Random Ranger

Obviously there's a heap of people including me that have a different view to you, with Ranger at 3 Hilux at 4 Colorado at 8 and Navara at 9 in the top selling cars for January's Vfacts figures.

What's that got to do with it, they are rubbish to sit in or drive, sure they are much better than the old rubbish of years before.

Now a stupid mate was ranting and raving about his new Rodeo and took me out for a drive in it, I could not wait to get out of it, it was gutless ill handling pile of junk, the shocks were hopeless it was all over the place and my shoulder's were touching his at times it was that narrow.

Yes it did 180KM/H but so what.

He has the new Colarado now piff ! it's a bit better but it has given troubles and he is getting a new one today but it's not a dual cab.

I like the look of the Ford and the 5 cyl best but the problems I have heard of them is just shocking, everyone I come across has a story.

The old Jap made cars never had problems but this Thailand made stuff can't hold a candle to the Jap reliability.

The Falcon is a much better car to drive and no one could say that it's not.

[Windsor220]

Of course the Falcon is better to drive but it cant do half of the stuff a dual cab can and that's the reason people buy them.

[theBlake]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I think you're assuming everyone has an ABN and only buys twin cabs and vehicles like the Hilux for an FBT benefit and that's why no one bought local sedans...

Point of order :-)
Only company owned vehicles attract FBT benefits. Simply having a trader/partnership doesn't, in such structures its still a personally owned vehicle.

IMO all small Businesses should convert to a company and rort the system to the max. (Legally, I do )

[Brazen]

It's much easier for large fleets to simply buy dual cab Utes instead of Falcons and Commodores as they can reduce the FBT liability in some cases.

[RANGEREST]

At the cricket with the kids this morning, from where I'm sitting there are 19 dual cabs 4 wagons 2 sedans and 4 single cab utes.
Just looking at the dual cabs I'd say at least a dozen are tradies like myself, with tool boxes of some sort or ladders on them.
Way more than I would have guessed .

[Sprintey]

Govco seems to have taken collective (Lib/Lab) leave of its wits in auto policy in the recent decade with stuff like the FBT difference between locals and these, the 4cyl only govco fleet decision...

We play 'Dual Cab ute fail' when surfing, spotting the boards sticking out of the tiny trays, best is when someone tries to put a canoe on the back. Some stack them up and 'tombstone' them above the cab for the whole trip to the waves. Then watching them stow them in the passenger cab if they take extra boards... They get roof racks just like a sedan... Even a Falcon sedan is more practical, as you can put the back seats down and stow boards securely beyond 9'6"... A hatch beats them. My mates are in love with the things, wanting to drop 50K so they have the same storage problems with boards common to 1970's sedans. Not to mention the ladder frame chassis and torture back seats of the 1980s. Luckily you boys don't generally surf...

Just out of interest:

Ute and diagonal board holding ability

VE-F 2255mm 7'4"
VU-VZ 2622mm 8'7"
FG 2262mm 7'5"
VS 2303mm 7'6"
XA to XH 2625 8'7"

You'd be conservative too, take a board slightly shorter than the max. But there it is. Wagons/SUV/hatches/even Falcon sedan ftw

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Govco seems to have taken collective (Lib/Lab) leave of its wits in auto policy in the recent decade with stuff like the FBT difference between locals and these, the 4cyl only govco fleet decision...

We play 'Dual Cab ute fail' when surfing, spotting the boards sticking out of the tiny trays, best is when someone tries to put a canoe on the back. Some stack them up and 'tombstone' them above the cab for the whole trip to the waves. Then watching them stow them in the passenger cab if they take extra boards... They get roof racks just like a sedan... Even a Falcon sedan is more practical, as you can put the back seats down and stow boards securely beyond 9'6"... A hatch beats them. My mates are in love with the things, wanting to drop 50K so they have the same storage problems with boards common to 1970's sedans. Not to mention the ladder frame chassis and torture back seats of the 1980s. Luckily you boys don't generally surf...

Just out of interest:

Ute and diagonal board holding ability

VE-F 2255mm 7'4"
VU-VZ 2622mm 8'7"
FG 2262mm 7'5"
VS 2303mm 7'6"
XA to XH 2625 8'7"

You'd be conservative too, take a board slightly shorter than the max. But there it is. Wagons/SUV/hatches/even Falcon sedan ftw

...and which of them is a high riding four wheel drive with low range that can get into the rough stuff (and out again) if so required...?

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by tempted

Great post.

I too have found the trays in dual cab utes to be useless and this is why I will always prefer the Falcon and Commodore utes. I bought my ute specifically for carting things around and I can easily fit items that would need the tailgate left down on a dual cab ute. Hardly ideal.
I also cannot justify $50k on a ute that is only going to be trashed and abused, when my AU does everything I require of it and is dirt cheap to run on lpg.

Went from an FG XR ute to Ranger, best decision ever, never had a problem carrying anything, more versatile & reliable than the FG, If I really need more tub/tray room I'd buy a super cab which would crap over the ford & commodore utes.

All vehicles have their pros & cons including your dinosaur.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by tempted

Great post.

I too have found the trays in dual cab utes to be useless and this is why I will always prefer the Falcon and Commodore utes. I bought my ute specifically for carting things around and I can easily fit items that would need the tailgate left down on a dual cab ute. Hardly ideal.
I also cannot justify $50k on a ute that is only going to be trashed and abused, when my AU does everything I require of it and is dirt cheap to run on lpg.

My tray in my Ranger has been perfect for me. Fits my bikes in the tray nicely with the tailgate up. That was the main reason I bought it because I was sick of taking bike racks on and off all the time.
Moving houses and the odd run to bunnings has worked out very well owning the Ranger.
I once had to rest a piece of timber onto my roll bar because it was too long for the tray, but honestly I don't think I would of been happier buying a Falcon ute because of that one trip.

Originally Posted by tempted

You have completely misinterpreted what I was trying to say.

Look at Elks' post above yours for reference.

Locally built cars were abandoned for utes, for the sole purpose of the fbt saving.
If the fbt exemption wasn't offered on utes only, people most likely would have continued buying regular sedans.

If the government was serious about supporting local industry they would have offered fbt exemption all locally buily cars.

That is my argument. It has nothing to do with an equivalent local 4x4 ute.

Not too sure about that. No doubt FBT exemptions on locals MAY have helped with a few more sales, but you cannot just offer tax breaks on a car category not many people want and expect it to sell in huge numbers.
How many previous Falcondore owners bought hatch backs because they are reasonably big on the inside and use hardly any fuel. I don't think the local cars were abandoned only because of tax breaks on dual cabs. That may of been one minor factor, but not the whole story.

Notice with local cars they only made large sedan's, wagons, single cab utes and onroad medium SUV's. What is that about 1/4 of all vehicle categories?
What about people who wanted small city cars, hatch backs, small sedans, coupes, small SUV's, offroad 4x4's, dual cab's, vans, people movers. I know building a new vehicle cost a load in R&D, but you can't blame the people because local companies didn't invest any money in popular vehicle categories.

Originally Posted by castellan

I like the look of the Ford and the 5 cyl best but the problems I have heard of them is just shocking, everyone I come across has a story.

The old Jap made cars never had problems but this Thailand made stuff can't hold a candle to the Jap reliability.

I haven't had any problems personally, 2 others I work with who own PX & PX2 Rangers haven't had any problems either. Not saying people haven't had problems, but when you do have problems you tend to be more vocal about it.
How many people put in the effort to post reviews on websites, and such when nothing is wrong. People tend to get angry when things go wrong and will happily bag out the thing they have problems with. Think about how many cars you have owned in the past that have had no major problems, now think how many times have you logged onto productreviews.com.au and told every one how great that car has been.
Out of 4 cars I have owned, I have only written a review on 1 of them. How convenient that I was furious at the time and wrote it on the only one which had major problems.

Originally Posted by castellan

The Falcon is a much better car to drive and no one could say that it's not.

No doubt the Falcon Ute handles better and has heaps more power than any diesel dual cab on the market.
But the Falcon doesn't drive very well when you have 2 passengers and have to leave it at home in the garage.

This is why I consider comparing different categories of vehicles pointless.
It's like saying a Mustang is better than a Camry as a commuter car because the Mustang handles better and is quicker.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by castellan

What's that got to do with it, they are rubbish to sit in or drive, sure they are much better than the old rubbish of years before.

The Falcon is a much better car to drive and no one could say that it's not.

I'm a big Falcon Ute fan, but wonder if the people that make comments like above have actually driven a current model Ranger. My father has a PX XLT and I was astonished at how well it drives and the consistency of its steering feel, especially considering its a 2 tonne plus pickup truck.