Personal/Gray Imports

[Franco Cozzo]

Hello guys, just saw this and thought it was interesting:

http://www.ironchefimports.com/2016/...-the-argument/

What are your views on gray/personal/parallel importation of vehicles?

[Sabantien]

Well I remember not too long ago we paid a premium for camera gear. Grey market sales took off big time. And the manufacturers offered no support for grey market goods.

Tell you what though. Now there's virtually no savings going grey market as it forced the prices down to reasonable levels. And grey marketeers had started offering their own warranties.

Recalls and the like may be an issue but other countries deal with it so the question is how?

[nstg8a]

Brilliant article.

[CyberWasp]

It happens in every other form of business so why not cars?
If the car companies are so against it maybe they can all chip in to keep the car factories open.

[Dr Terry]

I'm very much 'on the fence' with all the pros & cons of the whole Grey Import thing, but if I put my hat on as a wholesale parts supplier to the automotive trade, they're an absolute pain in the @rse.

We get so many calls were some poor bugger has spent some insane amount of money on a fancy people-mover, like a Nissan El Grande for example & just can't find parts for it. In typical Japanese fashion so many of the parts are just that little bit different to other cars in the Nissan range, meaning they often have to wait weeks/months for the relevant parts be imported.

Dr Terry

[Davehoos]

trouble is these rules-policy change every few years and none of the reports ive read pass the pub test-unless its at a university.

I have imported 2 complete Nissan R31 skyline for myself- and parts to convert many other R31, nissan and holden products.

I worked for a vehicle constructor and they refused to sell other versions to the public on the grounds of safety. except they would import a few for employees.

My last employer made very good dollars serving grey market vehicles sourcing Australian compatible parts for local RAWS [ripoff] aprooved workshops. Then servicing the vehicles once they had been sold by the dealers.

The comment that X vehicle was hard to get parts for dont stack up. I often have vehicles parked for months waiting for parts from local dealers. Over the last 20 years the number of dealer networks that have gone under taking all liability with them. Recalls this is why we pay lots to a government organisation-like NSW RMS.

[2011G6E]

Two things kill it in Australia, especially for interesting new and near-new stuff from the USA for example...

* Restrictions on driving brand new foreign cars here

* We're not trusted by the government with driving brand new LHD cars.


Looking back at history, you know that car companies must have felt they shot themselves in the foot by not importing certain models "officially"...Skylines are one amazingly popular example, Supras and Silvias another, the luxury people movers are another. With Supras and Skylines and Silvias the spare parts are no issue at all because of the vast aftermarket, but the luxury people movers do have some issues.
Nissan and Toyota had to have had stern discussions about how much money they could have made if they'd brought those vehicles in as part of the local lineup...

[paulb351]

Great article on the subject, I'm in the camp of break up the monopoly position on vehicles in the country. We have a larger choice of models than say US but we pay a premium across all vehicles...

It seems that the profit margins in vehicle importing are more than significant. We must all remember that other countries have distributor/dealer networks that make a profit, Australia has that plus a supercharged extra (or in Economic Theory terms "superprofit").

Toyota during the negotiation with Government over subsidies before closing down local manufacturing suggested that they were cross funding local manufacture of Camry to the tune of $3000 ~ $3500 per Corolla sold so even the average user was paying a premium.

I understood the new rules coming in 2018 restricted purchase to RHD vehicles and less than 500km (so essentially new vehicles in another RHD market Japan & UK I guess).

The crap about not servicing locally is hilarious, same vehicle from the factory and the local distributor/dealer network can't support it! protection racket for the importer/dealer network.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by paulb351

The crap about not servicing locally is hilarious, same vehicle from the factory and the local distributor/dealer network can't support it! protection racket for the importer/dealer network.

Exactly...know a few people with things like those Stagea (R34 Skyline) wagons as family cars, and other vehicles like Skylines, Supras, and the extremely popular 4WD Mitsubishi Delica people mover, and apart from a few smaller oddball parts which can be ordered within days usually (no worse than some local cars for less common parts), it can be serviced and maintained by any competent mechanic, even the local dealer of the manufacturer...but because of price when you go to get something serviced at a big dealership, it's usually more like UltraTune or something similar anyway.

We heard those fear stories for years from the manufacturers...I think it was to scare people off buying something interesting that the local dealers couldn't get their hands on through "regular channels" and to try and make people settle for whatever they had on the showroom floor. The Delica springs to mind again...good room, lots of good features, great power and economy out of the turbo diesel, and a proper 4WD drivetrain that lent itself to modification easily. Plenty of them being used as off road family vehicles and comfortable go-just-about-anywhere tourers. Mitsubishi must have been spitting chips they couldn't sell them new as they watched their popularity on the grey market...

[Crazy Dazz]

Firstly, regulations don't exist to protect you or I when buying a car. They exist to protect the majority of people who have no clue, and similarly to protect us when procuring other goods or services about which we too may also be similarly clueless.
Rant and rail all you want, but regulations exist, and aren't going away.
So if one company is bound by these regulations when selling a car in Australia, why should another be able to circumvent them?

These arguments are always phrased in terms of an individual wanting to import a car for their personal use. However once you open the floodgates, there is nothing to stop all the dodgy bros from bringing in crap by the shipload.

25ish years ago, WA was getting flooded with dodgy 2nd-hand cars. The government stepped in, basically all they did was insist that such cars must comply with relevant ADRs, and that modifications had to be done by qualified mechanics. Overnight the flood became a trickle.
Which makes me wonder what they were getting away with beforehand.

One of the issues, is that many people (including many on this board) don't comprehend just what dangerous junk is available overseas. Many of our goods now days are made in China. Mostly they comply with Australian Standards, and mostly they are legal and safe to use. Because they HAVE to be. I have also been involved in projects where a Chinese company tried to save money by sourcing everything direct from China. And most of the stuff, that wasn't thrown straight into landfill, required extraordinary amounts of rectification. Just because they CAN make acceptable goods when required, doesn't mean that everything made there fits the same standards.

And warranty IS a big issue. Australia actually has quite exceptional consumer protection laws. Whilst we tend to focus on the specific warranty given by a manufacturer, the statutory protection offered by the TPA (now the CCA) is actually much greater, and is not limited. That's why Ford is STILL liable for defective ball joints they sold over a decade ago.
The additional problem, is that whilst for convenience we fall back n the manufacturer, it is actually the retailer who is responsible for the warranty. So when my Delonghi coffee machine **** itself, I simply got it fixed by DeLonghi, not withstanding that I bought it from HN

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

They exist to protect the majority of people who have no clue

bullsh!t, it's to protect existing car manufacturers and dealer networks. How is restricting personal imports to cars over 25 years protecting any people (clue or none). nothing is stopping anyone buying those once they are already here.

[Davehoos]

25ish years ago, WA was getting flooded with dodgy 2nd-hand cars.

these often made it to NSW. mazda capella diesels through central nsw.
I tried to buy a 2 door 910 bluebird for a rally car, and to import a much safer half cut.

My apprentice in the mid 90's purchased a WA rego mazda familia [similar to a KA laser] .pursued by the NSW finest for driving a immaculate kept low Km vehicle in newcastle without a compliance plate side intrusion bars or rear seat lap sash seat belts. the car was latter stolen, rallied and dumped in a back yard near a train station. costing the young chap heaps.

I can see why it was important to get someone to pay the $10 000 to make that car safe. without changes.

I worked for multi dealer in the 1980-90's. the luxury people mover was too over priced compared to our NZ cousins. The base models we did sell had dreadfull engine options. In Newcastle loads of 5-8 year old sydnety sold Toyota came from government auctions, and how many remember the ford/mazda from Sydney family van conversion. I often fitted extra a/c to these to make the cheap vehicles purchased from down south.

[Boza]

I remeber in the late 90's early 2000's It was all the rage to own a Jap import like a skyline or a silvia. I used to work for a place that did roadies for these cars but first they had too go through engineering and compliance to get on the road like weld in side intrusion bar's change the seat belts to australian UV standards I know windscreen's had to be changed catalytic converter's changed and a whole heap of otjer bit's and piece's to get the car complied. There were heaps of these import yards all over the place. Now there's just a few people doing it and you don't see many of these car;s on the road because of parts availability I know people still bring in jap imports but not in the number's they used too I know many people that had one and said they will never own one again purely from a serviceability perpective because part's were outrageosly expensive and the lead time was also long. A mate had someone drop a metal pole from a multi storey car park in the city on his silvia which was parked on the street and neede a new windscreen was quoted from 1200 to 800 to get one gfrom japan and a 6-8 week wait it was his only car at the time he fixed and sold it right away and said he will never buy an import again just for that reason.