Government should buy car manufacturer

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Castellan, we need you to explain about Hitler and Nazis again please

OK, I could start with VW if you would like.

Old mate Hitler was not stupid and the government made it all possible, there is a real good book out that I have read about how it all got started, not just the TV education that most Aussies in there boring mundane ignorance mainly have.

You should look for a good book on how GMH got started in Australia, we sure had a impressive government back then and GM did not want to even bother with Australia, but Our Government made it happen.

Don't go blaming Ford or GM because if anyone does, they would just have to be a fool.

Big Damo there is a lot to be learned from people like Hitler and the Communist Leaders, sadly I find there is a extreme ignorance of the younger generation to the reality's of such people and such governments.
Hell I even had some socialist alliance grub come up to me on Saturday saying total rubbish, the poor uni student had no real idea what he was on about.
Anyone who looks down on freedom of speech is a moron, but look around Damo they are everywhere stomping around the place like little self appointed leaders flipping right out if there little demented cesspit feelings are upset.

[383hq]

Originally Posted by Dauphin

The Aussie government has recently committed to a $50 billion submarine contract, so they'd rather build a few submarines we don't need rather than help keep thousands of Aussies employed and our awesome car-making heritage alive.

I believe they've only committed to designing the subs.
The building bit is an option to proceed a little later in life

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Dauphin

The Aussie government has recently committed to a $50 billion submarine contract, so they'd rather build a few submarines we don't need rather than help keep thousands of Aussies employed and our awesome car-making heritage alive.

How much are we paying for a bunch of planes that havent been proven?

[2011G6E]

And build what? Large rear-drive sedans that no one was buying? Or spend a billion or more taxpayers dollars trying to start building the cars that people do want like SUV's and twin cabs that no manufacturer makes here, while trying to compete with large established makers overseas?

"Heritage" doesn't sell cars anymore. "Nostalgia" doesn't sell cars. Why would they pour hundreds of millions of taxpayers dollars down the toilet just to make Falcons and Commodores out of "tradition"?
No one. Wants. Them.
Let me rephrase that. No one wants them in sufficient numbers to keep making them. Volume sells, not building for niche markets and a few enthusiasts who honestly seem to think the average (read, "volume") car buyer cares about FWD or RWD, 0-100 times, and quarter mile runs. In fact I'd lay money that the vast, overwhelming majority of people who whine about the death of the Falcon and Commodore have never and will never buy a brand new car. They just seem to like the idea of them being available.
Oddly enough, people actually have to want to buy what makers are selling. If no one buys...or not enough people buy...something, then it stops getting made. That works for biscuits, household appliances, right up to cars.

[Sprintey]

From Brazen's link, Mr Katter is correct in his observation of cause and effect:

"Our farmers get 5 per cent of their income from the government — all the other farmers on Earth get 41 per cent of their income from the government.

"You remove all the protection and slave labour wage level products that are most unhealthy and environmentally unfriendly are pouring into this country, destroying all of our industries.

"We have nothing we can sell now and we have to buy everything from overseas. What do you do when you're in that situation? You have to sell the farm, don't you?"




Same holds true for motor industries; other countries realise the importance of theirs and work myriad policy and protection in favour of keeping it.


I'm seeing lots of reference to Soviet and Eastern block autos as a reason for why you wouldn't - but if you spend the time going into British parliamentary inquiries from 2010 onward, you will note their conclusion that a supported industry was vital to the country - its engineering skills base, employment, capital investment, wealth creation. Since then notice 80% of JLR products are exports with good profit per unit, with markets growing and a premium focus of the products - you will see that support and rebuilding a car industry can survive as a part of a 21st century knowledge economy.

So let's raise a glass in toast to Australia, the only top 20 OECD economy without a car industry!

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

From Brazen's link, Mr Katter is correct in his observation of cause and effect:
Same holds true for motor industries; other countries realise the importance of theirs and work myriad policy and protection in favour of keeping it.

So let's raise a glass in toast to Australia, the only top 20 OECD economy without a car industry!

Unfortunately your logic doesnt make sense there unless your argument is to make us poorer. Australia is ranked around 13th when it comes to GDP of all the countries in the world, and yet is only ranked circa 54th when it comes population size.

Far better to allocate resources to those industries that will allow a higher income.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

And build what? Large rear-drive sedans that no one was buying? Or spend a billion or more taxpayers dollars trying to start building the cars that people do want like SUV's and twin cabs that no manufacturer makes here, while trying to compete with large established makers overseas?

"Heritage" doesn't sell cars anymore. "Nostalgia" doesn't sell cars. Why would they pour hundreds of millions of taxpayers dollars down the toilet just to make Falcons and Commodores out of "tradition"?
No one. Wants. Them.
Let me rephrase that. No one wants them in sufficient numbers to keep making them. Volume sells, not building for niche markets and a few enthusiasts who honestly seem to think the average (read, "volume") car buyer cares about FWD or RWD, 0-100 times, and quarter mile runs. In fact I'd lay money that the vast, overwhelming majority of people who whine about the death of the Falcon and Commodore have never and will never buy a brand new car. They just seem to like the idea of them being available.
Oddly enough, people actually have to want to buy what makers are selling. If no one buys...or not enough people buy...something, then it stops getting made. That works for biscuits, household appliances, right up to cars.

I was not impressed at the VE Commodore when it came out and thought a VS size car would be better, but Holden were going to export maybe half the commodores to the USA and the high Aussie dollar destroyed that mainly.

No one truly wants real small cars really but it comes down to what they can truly only afford.

[Sprintey]

Bob you're probably right on the GDP to population, a search reveals us as 15th in 1970, 13th now, predicted to be about 7th by 2040: bodes well for Australia doing what its best at (rocks, houses, ag, financial services, exporting our young intellect & entrepreneurs)

However, clouds are gathering on the immediate horizon as reliance on iron ore is exposed for being the new "sheep's back".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-0...-slows/7570834
"Australia already in 'income recession"
"Iron ore dependence leaves Australia vulnerable"

It was for these reasons of diversification from riding primary produce's back, that manufacturing was set up in the first place...

If you want to look at a government supported industry that is a scourge on free market policy, just look at residential construction. The amount of laws and money policy in favour of it since 1984 is staggering, and has resulted in a 10:1 housing price to income ratio in our cities, far from the historical 1.5 to 3:1.

So we are staring at the first true recession since the early 90's. Now in this time the AUD usually adjusts making manufacture, tourism etc more competitive internationally, and this is exactly what has happened. But this time, we've killed our auto sector based on the dutch disease pricing of the mining boom and a lack of supportive policy, and not reviewed the decision as conditions have changed. We are going to be poorer as you say, but it's going to be reliance on cyclical industries, and misallocations of capital into non productive sectors such as residential housing that take us there, not the auto industry.

[mik]

just because we have x GDP , how does the rest of the economy stack up , private debt ? company debt ? gov debt ? and the scary one ...... foreseeable debt as a country on the whole versus income ?
every single year these tossers in charge our country's purse strings spend more while we get deeper in debt .
i`m no economist , but with the big players in the " free market " all pushing their stuff , and the world economy imo on the knifes edge (ours too imo ), and getting worse ...... i hate to be pessimistic , but i dont like the direction this country is heading .

[Junkyard-Dog]

Originally Posted by Dauphin

The Aussie government has recently committed to a $50 billion submarine contract, so they'd rather build a few submarines we don't need rather than help keep thousands of Aussies employed and our awesome car-making heritage alive.

So building cars here just to keep "heritage" alive is more important than national security?

[last fairlane]

Ive said this before
The government could have saved the car industry with just some legislation
PMs from Gough Wittlam through to Malcolm Turnball could have done it
all the govt had to do was do it like the yanks do buy local no exceptions
some examples from the top
Fairlanes or Statesmans as govt limos
cops cars
XR6/8 or HSVs for chase cars
Falcons Commodores or Camrys for the detectives and police staff to drive
Falcons as divvy vans Territorys for prisoner transport
Fire engines Volvo Mack Kenworth or International
the armed forces the same trucks and cars
these are all built right here in OZ
of coarse there will be some exceptions you have to have Landcruisers if your out in the desert and Benzes for ambulances but just imagine how many jobs would have been saved
anyway I could be totally wrong maybe its put in to simple terms
just my thoughts John

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by last fairlane

Ive said this before
The government could have saved the car industry with just some legislation
PMs from Gough Wittlam through to Malcolm Turnball could have done it
all the govt had to do was do it like the yanks do buy local no exceptions
some examples from the top

cops cars
X

So for example, when the Yanks are driving around in Caprice Cop Cars. Would love to see that US legislation you are speaking about.