The Truth About Ev's, maybe?

[Maka]

Originally Posted by johntolhurst

Here's an article about the falling petrol excise income as EVs hit the streets. Petrol consumption will fall, globally, so prices should too. The top bureaucrats are seeing it coming.

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-0...34?pfmredir=sm

EVs will imo get their own unique way of paying their fair share of road excise/tax based on average's without punishing other road users.

Here's a interesting link reiterating Johns link above -

https://www.intheblack.com/articles/...ride-taxpayers

cheers, Maka

[stefcio007]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Given the tragic death of two young motorists in a Tesla model S in Ft Lauderdale recently, can anyone school me on the difference between lithium battery packs and the nickel based ones ("old tech") of Toyota when in a crash?

I understand the lithium is likely to heat, catch fire when cracked open, then do the same to surrounding battery units, causing an inferno. Firefighters report they are not to intervene.

Will the battery in a Prius or Corolla or Camry be as explosive?

Ni-cad batteries, fluid inside them is not flammable, fluid that the sheets are in in a lithium-ion battery are flammable. Hence then li-ion battery catches fire it burns up inside consuming itself.

Firefighters are told not to intervene because dumping water on li-ion battery packs makes them burn for longer and they probably aren't prepared to deal with these types of fires yet?

Ni-cad batteries are very durable and can take a lot of abuse like you'd get in a car with all the constant bumps and vibration.

Lithium-ion has been very safe because it's been used in low physical stress situation so not many cases of fires. Most fires are caused by poor chargers or poor cables leading to shorts, sometimes improper handling but most lithium-ion batteries in devices not are non-removable.

[Sprintey]

Thanks so much Stefcio, good information.

A high speed auto crash would be a high physical stress situation, in in this case it seems the NiCad battery would be safer.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Thanks so much Stefcio, good information.

A high speed auto crash would be a high physical stress situation, in in this case it seems the NiCad battery would be safer.

unfortunately NiCad has memory effect, people recharge when ever possible.
the battery are not designed to recharge unless depleted..
otherwise half charge will become the norm..

[Maka]

Hi guys, a very interesting read -

https://reneweconomy.com.au/stunning...omakers-16619/

cheers, Maka

[XByoot]

Originally Posted by burnz

unfortunately NiCad has memory effect, people recharge when ever possible.
the battery are not designed to recharge unless depleted..
otherwise half charge will become the norm..

As well as recharge memory I also believe NiCads are sensitive to recharging..thermal runaways can be a risk.

[johntolhurst]

We are really talking risk managment here. "As Low As Reasonable Practicable" or ALARP is what the risk professionals talk about. For the Li-ion fire, there would be preventative measures in how they are charged or drawn down to prevent heat build up, as well as mitigative measures on limiting the extent of any fire, such as excluding oxegen from the battery storage cell and making the cell strong so it doesn't rupture in an accident. But sometimes, you know, when you wrap a car around a tree, you're going to get hurt. Its hard to point to the car designer in that case and say hey! why wasn't wrapping the car around a tree part of your design brief?

And compared to driving around with petrol sloshing in a tank, batteries seem positively calming!

[Crazy2287]

As far as battery packs go, They have this **** down, and have for many years. Each cell is individually, or as part of a small pack, monitored for charge state, current, voltage and temperature, and if an imbalance occurs the battery management modifies the charge/discharge appropriately to protect and balance the pack.
Yes explosive/very flammable if you drive at 120KpH into a concrete barrier and rupture the cell. But Last time i checked, 120kph into a concrete slab was a sure way to die no matter the vehicles motive means.

Users of Tesla's cars have noted an average of less than 10% capacity depletion over 160,000Mi.
https://electrek.co/2018/04/14/tesla...radation-data/

sign me up.
If i could afford one, Id be in 100%. Yes please to reduced maintenance costs, and charging at home!
Imagine never hacing to say "Oh, head gasket blew" "Oh **** my EGo valve has clogged with soot" "Gotta take my car in for it's 10,000km engine oil change".

As for brake pads. Replace? Hmmm.... maby?
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...ds-last.64161/

[hackney]

I see that VW has just ordered $64 billion worth of electric car batteries. Cheers

[XByoot]

I’ve really enjoyed reading this topic and agree that the EV will have a very important role in the future. Sure a lot of the issues that the ICE has will be non exist and, but I’m sure many ther new issues may well replace them. Reduced noise levels for city stop start motoring would of course be another real bonus.

What I’m curious about is on a slight tangent to Evs but related to the future is regarding autonomous vehicle technology. When it come to a resolution of a possible collision conflict or avoidance is there a industry standard being developed?
For example, in Aviation the TCAS ( traffic collision avoidance system) will calculate a resolution between the two aircraft and instruct one to climb and one to descend for example, and monitor each other to confirm they are complying with the calculated resolution. ATC have sophisticated software to regulate speeds to aid in traffic flows also.
Now, in a car I’m wondering if future autonomous vehicles will have a similar logic? Eg, if two cars are travelling side by side on a dual lane road and one vehicle detects a possible collision from a side street entry or a pedestrian. Will they communicate with each other an say, hey, I want to move into your lane can you reduce speed as a precaution to avoid a possible conflict or hey watch out you may not have detected this possible conflict yet but reduce speed due to a possible intruder? Then do they escalate the resolution to say, hey this is a collision avoidance manouver, I’m stopping, vehicle behind me stop, vehicle beside me reduce speed also? Or are they all just wandering around like a bunch of creepy crawleys in your pool responding when they see each other and end up boxed in the corners?
Surely there must be some vehicle to vehicle communications?

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by Maka

A interesting link from Forbes.com about ev's lol -

https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurenf...tric-vehicles/

If what the author says is true, maybe there is a long way to go for ev's before it truly reaches mainstream acceptance in the US & in the future here in Oz, any thoughts?

cheers, Maka

This does not surprise anybody who has half a brain.

[Maka]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

This does not surprise anybody who has half a brain.

Interesting you say that because Forbes got rid of the article from their site, umm i wonder why...

Oh thats right, if anyone read the article, they saw her arguments against ev's had more holes in it than swiss cheese lol.

cheers, Maka

[Maka]

Hi guys, a very informative read -

"Automakers Rush To Build EVs And Worry How Many People Will Buy"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidki...ople-will-buy/

cheers, Maka

[stefcio007]

I hope automakers put much more though into how they design their heat management systems for cars than how Microsoft designs their laptops...


Literally the heat from the CPU/GPU is dissipated across the batteries...reason why the battery failed.

With some places getting very hot in summer I hope that at least Ford will do lots of R&D for our climate. They have a huge R&D centre in Melbourne which is a good sign.

[Sprintey]

So news just in, last week a Tesla hit a firetruck in Salt Lake city at 60mph, no one killed thankfully.
And more pertinent here, driver has died in Switzerland on A2 near Bellinzona after Telsla has crashed and battery fire has ensued.

[Grunter]

For some broad context, in 2016 there were 173,000 reported vehicle fires in the US alone, with 280 related deaths. That's approx. 473 petrol/diesel vehicle fires per day!!

Ignoring the other EV's, Telsa vehicle fires have occur in 1 in 12500 vehicles, with the equivalent statistic for petrol-powered cars is 1 in 1,300.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...vilian-deaths/
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...vehicle-fires/

[johntolhurst]

Originally Posted by Grunter

For some broad context, in 2016 there were 173,000 reported vehicle fires in the US alone, with 280 related deaths. That's approx. 473 petrol/diesel vehicle fires per day!!

Ignoring the other EV's, Telsa vehicle fires have occur in 1 in 12500 vehicles, with the equivalent statistic for petrol-powered cars is 1 in 1,300.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...vilian-deaths/
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...vehicle-fires/

Thanks for that data and interpretation, very well donne. That's a 10x improvement in fire safety when going to EV.

[Maka]

Hi guys, some nice EV info & the comments section is full of great comments lol -

https://reneweconomy.com.au/ev-range...olt-age-81963/

cheers, Maka

[johntolhurst]

That's an interesting read, thanks Maka.

It seems the oil industry is suffering from group think. When a group of people convince each other off a rather unrealistic viewpoint. Where is their devil's advocate? That's a job I could do!!!

[Maka]

The oil industry will be in a bind from a business standpoint if they cant get its strategies right moving forward in response to the EV onslaught.

I think we will see them (OPEC etc) dropping prices again very soon & fairly sharply to see how demand react's to guage a future were EV's start to really grow in popularity & how using the price of oil will for them slow the inevitabile EV onslaught in the near future.

The governments role will be interesting to say the least from a implementation standpoint ie: banning the biggest i.c.e polluters like trucks etc first or not & new fuel, EV road tax legislation perspectives imo.

cheers, Maka

[johntolhurst]

There's certainly a lot of legislation needed to accommodate the truth of EVs. If I was an oil industry investment analyst, I would just say: buy up all the battery and solar farm investments you can while you got the money, transition into the new deal and do it before the rest of the industry catches on. hang on, isn't Shell doing that? ....

Hmm, thought so: http://planetsave.com/2018/01/17/she...silicon-ranch/

At the moment, OPEC have been quiet disciplined not to produce too much. Because we all use our ICE on a regular basis, demand isn't hugely affected by price, that's why it makes a nice consistent pile of tax dollars for the Gov. So its supply that controls price. The suppliers are in a cartel, arn't they? Desperate to test their ability to manage demand and control price in a declining market.

The truth about EV's is they skip around this clever strategy gamesmanship nonsense.