Ford invests $500 million in EV startup

[Bolly47]

rivian_Placement_Medium_Image.jpgRivianSkateboard chassis. Source: Rivian
Skateboard chassis. Source: Rivian

Ford said it will invest $500 million in Rivian and work with the company to develop a battery electric vehicle using Rivian’s "skateboard" platform.

Rivian's launch products — a five-passenger pickup and a seven-passenger SUV due out in 2020 — are designed to provide up to 400 miles of range. The vehicles will be built at a former Mitsubishi manufacturing plant in Normal, Illinois.

The skateboard chassis concept dates back at least to 2002 and the Autonomy concept car from General Motors. That car housed all of its working parts in the vehicle's wheelbase. The design allowed the same platform to be used for more than one model.
Skateboard chassis. Source: Rivian
Skateboard chassis. Source: Rivian
The GM concept included drive-by-wire technology rather than mechanical controls for functions like throttle adjustment and steering. GM proposed using a compact hydrogen fuel cell for power and electric drive motors mounted in the wheels. Some observers said the basic design was a throw-back to the kind of chassis that was commonly used in early 20th-century auto production.

In February, Rivian closed an equity investment round of $700 million led by Amazon. Other investors include Sumitomo, Standard Chartered Bank and Abdul Latif Jameel, a Saudi conglomerate.

As part of its previously announced $11 billion EV investment, Ford said it plans to produce a crossover in 2020 and a zero-emissions version of its F-150 pickup.

Rivian will remain an independent company. Joe Hinrichs, Ford’s president of Automotive, will join Rivian’s seven-member board. Rivian has development centers in Plymouth, Michigan; San Jose, California; Irvine, California; and Surrey, England. It employs around 750 people.

[Franco Cozzo]

Our government should be offering incentives to see if they can coax one of these new manufacturers to produce here in Australia.

[jpd80]

This announcement happened back in April...

Listing all the Ford BEV products
- Mach E (2020)
- BEV F150 (2023)
- BEV Mid Sized Utilities/Crossovers to replace Ford/Lincoln cars.
- Rivian based SUV (~2022)
- VW MQB compact vehicles for Europe and maybe ROW?
- Zyote Compact BEVs for China

At the time of the signing, GM was absolutely ticked off, they were set to sign up
until told that the deal was not exclusive and that Rivian would be signing with
other manufacturers like Ford, they thought their signing would lock out other
rivals like Ford and FCA.

so GM took its bat and ball and went home...Ford has made up a lot of ground
getting on board with electric vehicles, everything looks to be dropping overseas
in the next few years....

How ironic that GM claims to have invented the skateboard platform.

[Nu66et]

Looks like it would make an easy conversion under some of the classic BOF full size American cars.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Our government should be offering incentives to see if they can coax one of these new manufacturers to produce here in Australia.

The Libs killed the industry. Why would they want to re-start it?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The Libs killed the industry. Why would they want to re-start it?

They want a nation of coffee baristas and wait staff....and by golly they'll get it.
We gave Asia our automotive industry, so why not education in our universities too.

[ryeman]

The US manufacturers have never taken BEVs seriously beyond the CAFE requirements.
Europe, India and China have deadline for ending ICE sales in order to deal with their city pollution which has reached extreme at times.
They are serious about BEVs and as such will be a serious threat to the survival of Ford and GM .


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[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The Libs killed the industry. Why would they want to re-start it?

Jobson Growthe!

It's a great political tool - they can be the mighty saviors who bring manufacturing back to Australia.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

I'm sure if we wave 12 figures around of incentives they'll consider it.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The Libs killed the industry. Why would they want to re-start it?

Depends on what actions you define as killing the industry.
Many believe the Button plan kicked off the death knell.
Ford announced the end of their manufacturing during a Labor government.

It isn't one single government that killed the industry, that doesn't also include the other businesses and groups that had some stake in the death of the industry.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by ryeman

The US manufacturers have never taken BEVs seriously beyond the CAFE requirements.
Europe, India and China have deadline for ending ICE sales in order to deal with their city pollution which has reached extreme at times.
They are serious about BEVs and as such will be a serious threat to the survival of Ford and GM .

Nope, for two reasons,
That deadline for ending ICE sales is only for passenger sedans and excludes Hybrids....
It also predates massive changes in diesel exhaust emission advances suddenly trotted out
by Bosch which stands to lose Billions if diesel goes bye bye in Europe.

Ford has a lot of BEVs coming,
- is parenting with Rivian and its own designs for the USA
- is partnering with VW for BEVs in Europe and ROW
- is partnering with Zyote in China

maybe Holden missed its second coming by not becoming Australia's only
Battery Electric Vehicle manufacturer, removed for all other GM influences.

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Nope.

That deadline for ending ICE sales is only for passenger sedans and excludes Hybrids....

Yeah but the unit costs will reflect the reduced production numbers of common engine series, and the decision to expend more money into the next generation of WLTP emissions standards is another burden.
If electric will give sufficient Ute/SUV range the argument becomes even more economically questionable.
Boards aren’t so much car enthusiasts as survivor enthusiasts.


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[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The Libs killed the industry. Why would they want to re-start it?

I didn't regard Whitlam (1970s) & Rudd/Gillard/Rudd as Liberal.

The rot began with Whitlam fiddling with tariffs. There was plenty of other issues as well, Button plan (1980s) labour costs, exchange rates, subsidy reductions, GFC, Detroit decision making (costing us export business). Back 15 years ago Holden & Toyota were exporting more than they were selling locally.

It was a "perfect storm".

Dr Terry

[ryeman]

The Reagan Hawke era saw CEO/ AWE blowout from 20x to today’s ~ 250x.
In Australia it was called ‘the accord’.
Every business leader praises the Hawke Government.


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[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

I didn't regard Whitlam (1970s) & Rudd/Gillard/Rudd as Liberal.

The rot began with Whitlam fiddling with tariffs. There was plenty of other issues as well, Button plan (1980s) labour costs, exchange rates, subsidy reductions, GFC, Detroit decision making (costing us export business). Back 15 years ago Holden & Toyota were exporting more than they were selling locally.

It was a "perfect storm".

Dr Terry

After the GFC, both GM and Toyota head offices decided that those Middle East supply contracts
should go to GMNA and Toyota Asia respectivly, Aussie exports were cut through no fault of their own.
Thye built up the market and then others took the fruits for themselves.

Same with Commodore into South America, day after the announcement up goes a tariff.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by ryeman

Yeah but the unit costs will reflect the reduced production numbers of common engine series, and the decision to expend more money into the next generation of WLTP emissions standards is another burden.
If electric will give sufficient Ute/SUV range the argument becomes even more economically questionable.
Boards aren’t so much car enthusiasts as survivor enthusiasts.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Not every manufacturer is in the same boat, nor is every manufacturing region,
I'm betting that if we see a massive dump in global economics, everything will
take a breath and slow down, people have these amazing political timetables
but the real world limitations and challenges will be quite different. Investment
in energy grids and supply of additional low CO2 green power is going to be difficult
enough without millions of cars suddenly demanding fast charging.

My prediction is that every current ICE sale will become son form of hybrid ICE,
be that a PHEV, a HEV or a passive HEV, that in itself will slow the progression
of BEVs and in turn force those manufacturers to compete at new lower prices.

A lot of the BEV circus is being propelled by the belief sold to governments
that the whole thing will be cost neutral and not affect costs in other areas.
You watch the chickens come home to roost, UK already predicting that the
cost of supporting BEVs will cost them equivalent of +$40Billion

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by jpd80

After the GFC, both GM and Toyota head offices decided that those Middle East supply contracts
should go to GMNA and Toyota Asia respectivly, Aussie exports were cut through no fault of their own.
Thye built up the market and then others took the fruits for themselves.

Same with Commodore into South America, day after the announcement up goes a tariff.

Isn't that what I said.

I probably should have worded it to include Detroit & Tokyo decision making (costing us exports).

Dr Terry

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

Isn't that what I said.

I probably should have worded it to include Detroit & Tokyo decision making (costing us exports).

Dr Terry

Yes, my post was in no way mean as a criticism of your post, just elaboration
for others who may not be aware of what exactly happened back then and why
all those exports seemed to just evaporate.....external forces took the win.

[guzzis3]

It always amazes me that rational people think there is any daylight between labor and coalition. They are as evil as each other..

but anyway..

Personally I think ford head office are smarter than we give them credit for. There is solid history of cutting edge companies doing all the risk and then majors sweeping in behind them and either sending them broke or taking them over. Ford mentioned some years back they were looking at becoming transport providers rather than car sellers.

If, and it's a big if, autonomous vehicles get up and electric matures I predict maybe 4 survivors running fleets of driverless electric taxis at a price point maybe between buses and taxis. I am pretty confident Ford will be one of those 4. 80% of the vehicles will be those, with private owned enthusiast and special purpose vehicles making up the balance. This includes rural vehicles probably still IC for range + torque etc.

Ford are playing a long game. I reckon GM have nfi what they are doing. They may survive just on volume but their management seem to be hopeless.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Depends on what actions you define as killing the industry.
Many believe the Button plan kicked off the death knell.
Ford announced the end of their manufacturing during a Labor government.

It isn't one single government that killed the industry, that doesn't also include the other businesses and groups that had some stake in the death of the industry.

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

I didn't regard Whitlam (1970s) & Rudd/Gillard/Rudd as Liberal.

The rot began with Whitlam fiddling with tariffs. There was plenty of other issues as well, Button plan (1980s) labour costs, exchange rates, subsidy reductions, GFC, Detroit decision making (costing us export business). Back 15 years ago Holden & Toyota were exporting more than they were selling locally.

It was a "perfect storm".

Dr Terry

Yes it was a long term decline by both sides, but the Libs were the ones who could have kept it going, but instead chose to dare GM to leave and basically were happy to see the back of them. Still one of the most disgraceful things I have ever seen by our pollies.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Yes it was a long term decline by both sides, but the Libs were the ones who could have kept it going, but instead chose to dare GM to leave and basically were happy to see the back of them. Still one of the most disgraceful things I have ever seen by our pollies.

Kept what going? Supporting a rapidly declining market and organisations unwilling to introduce anything else?

After Ford left the pressure on Toyota and Holden was more. If Holden needed more subsidies then the value of their practises really did come into question.

It was sad to see all three stop building cars here, but the writing had been on the wall for many years. Time to move on and begin investing in other more sustainable industries.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Kept what going? Supporting a rapidly declining market and organisations unwilling to introduce anything else?

After Ford left the pressure on Toyota and Holden was more. If Holden needed more subsidies then the value of their practises really did come into question.

It was sad to see all three stop building cars here, but the writing had been on the wall for many years. Time to move on and begin investing in other more sustainable industries.

Yet here we have people suggesting the government fund an EV manufacturer

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Wretched

It was sad to see all three stop building cars here, but the writing had been on the wall for many years. Time to move on and begin investing in other more sustainable industries.

Hopefully one that replaces the $30 billion/year car sales revenue leaving the country.
Or did we already trade that off thanks to our Coal/Iron Ore/Gas/Alumina exports to Asia?

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Yes it was a long term decline by both sides, but the Libs were the ones who could have kept it going, but instead chose to dare GM to leave and basically were happy to see the back of them. Still one of the most disgraceful things I have ever seen by our pollies.

By which time, Nissan, Mitsubishi & Ford had already left or decided to leave.

With only 2 left it was an easy decision (already made in Detroit) to leave anyway.

Dr Terry

[jpd80]

The Skateboard platform offers a lot of versatility to what top hat you want to apply,
anything from a car, crossover, SUV or even a 4x4 Ute.

It could also be used to make a hybrid, plug in hybrid or an extended range BEV.
With so much potential, why isn't Australia at the forefront of this tech?

Why not take the Holden brand in a new, exciting direction instead of just another vanilla GM brand.

Stick any old body on the skateboard BEV chassis for a real retro ride....