Keepleft.... The real reason he hasnt posted today!

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by Young 'un

From what I can gether... Keepleft is a Motoring Safety Advocate of some description (hence the name and the seeming obsession with safety (banana) triangles...

My advocacy that folk make a point of carrying in the boot of their car a single 'Euro' (reason relates to 'quality') warning triangle, is to serve those requirements where as required, 'IN CASE'. Advocate so in my Signature as a take it or leave it item.

In working life, the warning triangle advocacy is only a very small item I focus on, but is 'complimentary' with other moves to improve our on road allowances that I push. Proper lane discipline and on road behaviour are other areas I focuss on outside the motoring forums.


I too dont understand the flack he seems to cop from some members. He only does what most 'advocates' do... they advocate! So he is usually the one to state the obvious things that everyone else tries to deny are a problem... Meh... I dunno. I dont neccisarily agree with everything he says, but no reason to attack the bloke.

Some people here see my Sig, and then (mistakenly) assume that that is all I'm about, - a frequent comment goes along the lines 'why don't you set about improving driver education', that sort of thing. The triangle item in itself really is part of that, 'Part' being the operative word. I pay close atention to the on going development of the National Driver Training Scheme.

I do set about improving education - but for most part, people won't see these results in forum, but suffice to say 'positive outcome' on my part is reflected in law right now, and is then imparted in the jurisdictional handbooks to driver candidates and I hope, 'experienced'. What matters here is 'clarity' of he written interpretative word in those primary stage driver training manuals, and here, I have to deal and convince some similarly determined public service employees who'd like to keep things 'very simple' for the bottom 5%.

Been doing this with a small degree of determination since about 1985, often intermingled by other non motoring related work, as I've had time to do so.

There are plenty of worse people on the forums...

Sure, but I have very broad shoulders and to be honest my life experiences, on road and off, have made me to be self critical, pretty stern and to not shrink and surrender when under attack from some cranky 19-26 year olds or other drug affected lesbian spider monkeys:-)

I do respect comments from some of my detractors and deal with them, if they are lawful and proper. Usually on discussion this does not relate to the European and African Union norm of having a mandated requirement to carry a single warning triangle in your vehicle, but might relate to particular engine, body or suspension mods.

In this forum, because Ford do sell a top quality UN compliant unit, I do use it by part number here, I wish it'd cost less, with time maybe. I don't mind f some hate me - but don't hate the product or mis understand its on-road application, see my Pdf weblink in Signature people.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by BOSS 540

My next evil campaign is to seek a final determination that we completely ban ADR52 - rear fog lights. Views?

Id rather see the "use your hazard lights whilst driving in fog law" removed or the booking of people who change lanes in either direction (without indicating) because their hazards are on!![/QUOTE]

Yes, Rule 221 (e). Bought into the ARR's from existing NSW regulation at development back in 1998.

I agree, for the reason you highlight and because to use them in this manner, in effect, as defacto rear fog lights, is NOT permitted in UN Convention on Road Traffic - with such good reason in mind AND of a concern relating to diminished warning because of complacency at crash scenes.

The allowance was championed by an Illawarra based person involved in the 1986 53 car pile-up on the F6 in NSW that occured in heavy fog. His letter to police and others went along the lines "if fog is considered a "hazard", why can't we just use our "hazard lights"?? - because they are amber, like yellow fog lights.

Great logic, not.

Unfortunatley, NSW Police based in that region and state government 'experts', not being aware of the growing reality of rear fog lights (Excel arrived and just started having them) or just how effective they actually are, supported the move.

These 'experts', would have been far better advised to advocate a mandatory ADR 52 for MA category at least, or could, if they had the hairy balls to do so, have made a specific NSW regulation requiring same. REMEMBER too, that NO driver training text related to the existence of rear fog lights, little wonder why they have been so mis-used. Generations had no idea of them despite being on our market vehicles as early as 1972.

It is this sort of sheer ignorance I fight nearly each day. Part of my campaign was to fight operational police ignorance by sourcing from Bosch and L.E Perie at Mt Waverley a few rear fog lamps which I then fit to Katoomba based police patrol vehicles. With much appreciation, that police would ask If I'd mind adding same to their own private vehicles.

I have arrived at the conclusion that Australia's 'soft' ADR requirements which allow makers to pick and choose key safety items, is to our detriment. Confusion abounds. Example: I tried very hard to have NT driver manual include a simple sentence "A rear fog light must only be used in heavy fog or similar hazardous weather condition causing reduced visibility". The 'lady' refused for years this basic request, stating that "I've never seen them" - after explaining where to look on her Excel for it, or "we don't get fog in Darwin", then wonders why the crashes happen in monsoon season.

The same person then in later years has the hide to talk to me about UN/ECE regulations, these are that, and the agencies and working parties which I've worked and otherwise nagged for years, usually by phone.

With ADR 52 compliant 'multi-function' lamps, I see often rear fog lights wired as brake lights, directly contravening ADR49/00 in relation to brake-light photometrics in doing so. We see some cars with them, others without. "Lucky draw" design rules.

We are not getting their full benefit, dare I say because of nagging complaints from the ignorant and dumb in society who feel because someone as equally dumb, mis-use the light - that it is then good reason to ban them!

We either accept them as standard, OR we prohibit their inclusion altogther. Half arsed ADR 52 measure such as we have now is certainly not 'a level playing field', where some makes can save $12 per car by not having them.

The European version of Australia's FCAI decided some time ago to have that markets 'makes' include the item on all MA category exports, on the basis of on road safety for ALL road (gravel) and weather conditions that rear fogs are designed to operate.

We note that front fog lights are not mandatory anywhere in the world, rear are, and are therefore considered the only defence against rear-end type crashes, as a low beam headlight will allow you to be seen 'forward' in any case.

[ebxr8240]

Not a colorbond roof in sight....
At least they are fully clothed..

[sfr rob]

thats funny, because thats exactly how i imagined keep left looked like! :

very good find laminge!

[Penelope Pitstop]

Whilst I understand that this thread was started in jest and to be honest it did give me a small chuckle... I do think that some of the posts are a little inappropriate and are bordering on personal attacks which I doubt the OP intended when he started the thread.

Yes it is funny to have a go at a mate and laugh it up but don't be nasty kids - its just not nice.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by sfr rob

thats funny, because thats exactly how i imagined keep left looked like! :

very good find laminge!

I'm a skinhead actually.

[new2ford]

I haven't been able to view the video but I can imagine what's in it. Only thing about a safety triangle its not much of a physical barrier between you and an 'event'. Better if you could carry a portable telegraph pole that you could drive into the ground behind you. That'd stop them. Like roundabouts, safety triangles are an idea that works well with alert European motorists. Like roundabouts they are something that would be ignored or misunderstood by the airhead drivers we have here.

I'm a fan of Keepleft - including the issue that his username indicates that most Australian drivers have nfi how to drive on a multilane road. (And they don't know how to use foglights either.) Sure some of keepleft's stuff may seem a bit obsessive but its quite right. And its on the right forum because Ford Aus makes some of the safest vehicles and gives a high priority to safety. In that sense Keepleft might be better off addressing Barina owners on a Holden forum - or Camry owners.

Keepleft your reference to the astuteness of the Illawarra police re hazard lights reminds me of the police response I got to an idea once. I brought back from Europe a simple device that made 1-2 hour parking zones easy to police. It was a cardboard clockface with a hand held in place by a splitpin - a bit like a child's 'learn the time' clock. You could get them free from service stations because they could use them for advertising. You set the time you arrived and put it behind the windscreen. You couldn't cheat and set it ahead of time because the pkg police would get you for cheating. So I sent this to the NSW Police and I got the expected long reply (we Aussies know better than the Euros) giving 101 reasons why it wouldn't work here. One of the reasons given was 'the possibility of mechanical failure of the clock.'!!!

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by sfr rob

thats funny, because thats exactly how i imagined keep left looked like! :

I pictured him like this:

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

I'm a skinhead actually.

Noice choice of words.....

http://dictionary.reference.com/

A member of any of various groups of people, especially young people, who shave their heads and sometimes participate in white-supremacist and anti-immigrant activities.

[BJ]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

I pictured him like this:

But wait theres more yeah

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

Well I own a ford focus and it has a rear fog lamp and I live in Canberra and we get fog here. So now you want them banned? I use that lamp in fog conditions. I use it how it is suppossed to be used. So now you want them banned. When you start your campaign, let me know, and I'll start to use them in clear conditions.

i changed mine for another reverse lamp, so no more fog lamp for me. i also got sick of people telling me "your bulb is blown" :

[LUXO_8]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

I pictured him like this:

call right now for a seccond set of safety triangles........... and if you pay by credit card. we'll even throw in these useless orange safety cones........

[Deadman]

Originally Posted by MADNC_8

call right now for a seccond set of safety triangles........... and if you pay by credit card. we'll even throw in these useless orange safety cones........

hehehehe. classic :hihi:

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Noice choice of words.....

http://dictionary.reference.com/

A member of any of various groups of people, especially young people, who shave their heads and sometimes participate in white-supremacist and anti-immigrant activities.

Mmm sure,- resided two years in Malaysia, 9 years in PNG, travel asia and the world. I just 'look' the skinhead part.

Just in case you think I'm a grand dragon, come wizard thingidymajig . . .


MadNC_8 "call right now for a second set of safety triangles........... and if you pay by credit card. we'll even throw in these useless orange safety cones........"

Twas thinking along the lines: Buy this *brilliant* Ford warning triangle . . and get an extension on your life, loved ones and property when you use it!

[red_hotxr6]

Did he make it to the hospital.

[clontarf_x]

Nah the wind peeled him off the front of the roobar before he got there