Severe LPG fuel scarcity from 2021?

[Tug]

Any informed knowledge as to the effect on the supply and price effect of LPG vehicle fuels after the next 6 months, with the likely closure of the Altona petro chem plant, where the LPG tankers fill up.

[Franco Cozzo]

How absolutely ridiculous is it that we've lost our last refinery in VIC because its not 'financially viable'

Its a pretty god damn valuable capability to have even if it is expensive.

[simon varley]

that's what happens when you privatise essential services. Clearly we have no need to any sort of strategic stockpile now we are on such good terms with the Chinese.

BTW Viva in Geelong is still up.

[bartaxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

How absolutely ridiculous is it that we've lost our last refinery in VIC because its not 'financially viable'

Its a pretty god damn valuable capability to have even if it is expensive.

The Viva Energy refinery in Geelong is still operating,

Australia had seven refineries in 2010, but will now have just two after ExxonMobil’s move on Altona followed BP Australia’s decision to shutter its Kwinana site in Western Australia.

Viva Energy’s plant in Geelong and Ampol’s site at Lytton in Queensland are the two refineries that remain open

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by bartaxr8

The Viva Energy refinery in Geelong is still operating,

Australia had seven refineries in 2010, but will now have just two after ExxonMobil’s move on Altona followed BP Australia’s decision to shutter its Kwinana site in Western Australia.

Viva Energy’s plant in Geelong and Ampol’s site at Lytton in Queensland are the two refineries that remain open

Surely that sends alarm bells from a fuel security perspective that just over a decade ago we had 10, now we have 2 left.

All well and good having the super refinery in Singapore supplying our fuel until one of those South East Asian nations gets the ****s up with a neighbour and there's a conflict that effects a trade route.

Everything's cheaper until you can't get your hands on it, sounds like Kogan.

[Gumboot]

Apparently Ampol is looking at options to close its refinery as well, so that would leave only one....
What could possibly go wrong.....say a trade war, pandemic , supply chain disruption , military conflict....

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Surely that sends alarm bells from a fuel security perspective

LPG accounts for just 2% of total fuel sold, and falling.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by b0son

LPG accounts for just 2% of total fuel sold, and falling.

That's a real shame, a whole industry going because of lack of innovation and poor attitudes

[marty351]

Are the days of the backyard bbq numbered?

Maybe vegans won't mind having their vege-tofu burgers cooked over heat beads...

[Gumboot]

BBQ! Har that is so 2020, The future is running your induction cooktop hooked up to your Tesla electric vehicle ��

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by b0son

LPG accounts for just 2% of total fuel sold, and falling.

I'm not talking about LPG specifically, I'm talking about having the capability of refining fuels as a nation.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

That's a real shame, a whole industry going because of lack of innovation and poor attitudes

I reckon the dodgy aftermarket LPG mixer ring conversions that were hastily slapped together, poor performance and backfiring is what killed LPG, it's left a very poor taste in consumer mouths.

Followed by Ford insisting on using mixer ring systems up until FG didn't help either, EcoLPI was way too late arriving at a time when everyone switched to diesel.

The only thing eGas is good for is cheap Barra swaps in performance application, its an absolute turd in it's normal application.

Had injected LPG systems become mainstream a decade earlier there might be more people willing to buy these cars or have these systems fitted.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Surely that sends alarm bells from a fuel security perspective that just over a decade ago we had 10, now we have 2 left.

All well and good having the super refinery in Singapore supplying our fuel until one of those South East Asian nations gets the ****s up with a neighbour and there's a conflict that effects a trade route.

Everything's cheaper until you can't get your hands on it, sounds like Kogan.

If we end up in a war they better make sure it's a bloody quick one. Before the fuel light comes on.

The government has been warned about how dangerous this is, but they seemingly don't give a ****.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

If we end up in a war they better make sure it's a bloody quick one. Before the fuel light comes on.

The government has been warned about how dangerous this is, but they seemingly don't give a ****.

We've had idiots at the wheel of our country since 20 years before I was born to this current day.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

We've had idiots at the wheel of our country since 20 years before I was born to this current day.

They have been warned about the problem. But their plan is to kick the can down the road for years, and to increase storage levels to about 2/3rds what is needed, and what is set out in some sort of global agreement regarding a nations fuel supplies that we are apparently a signatory of. Rat bastards. Especially with China rattling cages across asia. How long do they think the Singaporean oil tankers would last against Chinese subs?

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I'm not talking about LPG specifically, I'm talking about having the capability of refining fuels as a nation.

Refine what? Our crude is unsuitable, it simply yields too little petroleum. And that's before you factor in that our demand is way over our crude oil production.

Arguably, the best thing we can do is hurry along the adoption of BEVs for urban transport, and prioritise our oil stockpiles for freight/etc.

[au350hp]

Australia is supplied dirty fuel. It scores 61st on a quality rating, extremely high in sulphur amongst other impurities. I change my fuel filter every 5000kms to offset it. 2028 the Government is supposedly addressing this issue due to some environmental act, so who knows where the quality & price will be after the market reacts to this change? As for LPG, it is typical of how Australia treats industry.

[JAZSXY]

Originally Posted by Tug

Any informed knowledge as to the effect on the supply and price effect of LPG vehicle fuels after the next 6 months, with the likely closure of the Altona petro chem plant, where the LPG tankers fill up.

LPG Tankers pull very little from there for the autogas market. Most comes from other terminals.

[Hemihunter]

Price of LPG is not worth it these day compared to fuel price...
I remember when LPG was .50c a litre....and this made it viable to convert the XC falcons

[mad2]

Originally Posted by Hemihunter

Price of LPG is not worth it these day compared to fuel price...
I remember when LPG was .50c a litre....and this made it viable to convert the XC falcons

i remember paying a lot less than that for LPG! ... looks like i won't be fitting the bigger factory LPG tank now

[marty351]

2004 I remember coming down to racecourse rd and seeing lpg at 60c/l. This was when it was pretty much 32-40c/l. I laughed, some news outlet was scarring people about some bs which doesn't affect us. Drove out to Keilor and whoa... it was 34.9c/l. Great thing was driving a 5.8l torque monster at 1/3rd the price of a 2 litre petrol slug.

Those were the days...

[xb74_black]

As tank dating at servos comes up, most are being pulled out.

It's a shame, i prefer LPG.

[marty351]

BTW... only two backfires in six years of ownership and all it did was blow out the old dirt.
I only ever bought one filter.

[Franco Cozzo]

LPG had potential, has a high octane rating, is better out the exhaust, just the application was poor in most cases.

1940s tech mixer ring on modern cars, limiting the air intake to approx 40mm diameter etc.

Super sensitive to ignition system degredation and most average Joe's don't maintain their car properly as it is.

Plus it remaining a black art and a tightly held secret by those in the know have sealed it's fate.

[jmack]

i remember paying 14c/l for my first lpg car.been lucky enough to never have trouble with backfiring but economy has never been great,although i never worry about fuel economy anyway

[prktkljokr]

Originally Posted by jmack

i remember paying 14c/l for my first lpg car.been lucky enough to never have trouble with backfiring but economy has never been great,although i never worry about fuel economy anyway

I remember the 14c a litre days, unfortunately a tank full for under $10 is a thing of the past, reality is $60 now to fill the RTV.

There used to be 8 servo's within a 5k radius of where I live that sold LPG, now there is 1, the other week pumps were unavailable, had to go 4 suburbs over to get gas.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

To answer the OPs question, the closure of the Altona refinery, from my understanding, is not likely to have a major impact on LPG supplies:

Altona Refinery's production of LPG is only a by product of the crude oil refining process

Petrol represents approximately 60 percent of production, with diesel representing a further 30 percent and jet fuel around 10 percent. The percentage of each product depends on the type of feedstock used - different types of crude oil, for example, will produce more or less LPG from the refining process.

The Long Island Plant (not closing yet) produces and distributes LPG

The 158 hectare site houses three gas liquids fractionation trains, nineteen pressurized Liquefied Petroleum Gas (LPG - propane and butane) storage vessels, seven refrigerated atmospheric pressure LPG storage tanks, eight crude oil storage tanks, an LPG truck loading terminal and a jetty for loading LPG and crude oil onto ships.

The Longford Plants separates the crude oil and gas being fed from the operations in Bass Strait and then the separated streams (crude oil and gas liquids) are then piped to Long Island for further processing.

If the Long Island plant was to close, then that would certainly appear to have a major impact on LPG supplies, but at this stage, the Altona Refinery closure should see little impact.

[EDManual]

I remember havin a HQ back in about 1995 and there was something up with pricing, LPG was about 10 to 15 cents a litre if that! Cost $5 to fill up 60 to 70 odd litres!! We used to floor that around flat out, and it did about 20 to 25 litres per hundred. Good times.

[simon varley]

it's not just fuel though is it? these plants provide lubricants, solvents, chemicals for industry and agriculture, fertiliser bases. the list is long

[b0son]

Originally Posted by simon varley

it's not just fuel though is it? these plants provide lubricants, solvents, chemicals for industry and agriculture, fertiliser bases. the list is long

AFAIK, it mostly is fuel, lubricating oil and bitumen. we dont have much of a chemical manufacturing industry here anymore.