Powershift service frequency for reliability?

[rudi]

Been thinking , I know I shouldn’t 😁
Might get a mondeo diesel wagon . Need big internal space. Surfboards kayaks to fit inside.
Obviously I’ve read a lot about the failures of the Powershift (wet clutch) and it’s suggested regular servicing reducing the failures. Or does servicing regularly and on time, failures are a non-event?
So made me think servicing more (50000ks)? Might keep the chance of failure even less likely?
Now to the main questions
Wet clutch Powershift is there a failure rate available to understand the gamble of getting a mondeo?
Any idea how many failures in cars that have adhered to the required services?
Last one
I’ve read in the UK some service people flush the oil through the transmission with a pressure pump to help force the crap out. Is this a normal thing transmission specialists do here in AUS?
Last last one
And it’s pretty weird and shows I think too much 😂
Anyone fitted a secondary external filter with a finer screen and with small electric pump to keep the oil moving and moving the debris through to the filters to keep oil cleaner for longer.

My commute is 20 minute highway everyday 100/110kmh then 5/10 minute stop start lights to get to and away from work in city. So not much start stop to worry about.
Cheers

[rondeo]

I have two of these. Yes they are the biggest interior space of all. I have had no powershift trans problems in a combined 500000km plus. 60000km oil and filter change is all. Do it yourself instructions I posted here, some don't like the style but the facts are all there. 5.8 - 6.4 l/100 km, best car I ever had in the last 50 years. Failure rate is propriety info to poor old FoMoCo lest they don't make as many millions. No DPF problems either, still works from 25 to 80 percent soot burns off no problems. I hope to get another 200000km. combined. Post 2011 pre 2015 seems to be the sweet spot if anecdotal evidence is to be believed. Mine are 20ll. No need to go overboard with trans service, the oil costs a fortune anyway. They handle brilliantly. Make sure the service history includes regular 60000km gearbox oil changes. Having said all that, I don't like the fact that the gearbox contains plastic spacers between the clutch damper springs. If you see any cream colored plastic in the filter when it is changed....say goodbye.

[rudi]

Thanks Rondeo
That’s a lot of ks !!
Is your mondeo a work car? Most of your driving is highway?
I didn’t understand the following sentence. Can you elaborate please.
Failure rate is propriety info to poor old FoMoCo lest they don't make as many millions
Oh I just saw 2 on the road that had different roof rails. One that looks solid lower profile , the other like a bar with 3 feet at each end.
Obviously the second can have the roof racks anywhere along the bars.
How about the low solid profile. Do they have set locations for the roof racks? Or can it have racks slide along too? Any idea if the solid low profile rails can come off to allow retrofitting roof racks at the very front and rear where the above roof roof rail feet sit for roof racks separation are full length of the roof?
Sadly most cars these days the locations means the rack separation front to back are barely wide enough for a boogie board.

[rondeo]

The word I meant was proprietary, not propriety. What I meant was maybe reliability statistics are not publicly available because they are 'trade secrets'. There has been some discussion on this forum about powershift reliability, see user Mondaveo on that. Problem is if they do fail they are very expensive to fix compared to most. Servicing is also expensive, if you don't DIY.
On the other hand second hand values are low on account of the percieved powershift reliability issue, which only badly affected the dry clutch type on Focus.

I do mostly highway driving, so fewer gear changes. Probably a big factor.
The Ford roof racks on my station wagon are removeable cross bars 1200mm max apart.
Where the wagons really excel is in interior space.

[rudi]

We’ll bay makes sense, no they wouldn’t want people know that.
1200 is pretty good distance. Does your can have the roof rail bar to allow the rack separation?

[rondeo]

Ford roof rack - fixed longitudinal rails, removeable/lockable cross bars.

[manchu]

Originally Posted by rudi

Thanks Rondeo
Obviously the second can have the roof racks anywhere along the bars.
How about the low solid profile. Do they have set locations for the roof racks?

You can mount cross bars more or less anywhere along the solid rails so you'll be fine to get the separation you want.

The only real downside of the solid rails on any car is that you really need to get the specific fitting kit for that vehicle/rail profile. With the raised rails you can use a more generic roof racks like you see at aldi etc cheap because they wrap around/under the rails.

re. transmission. Just change the fluids at the 60kkm intervals and it'll probably be as reliable as if you did it every 20kkm.

I've had a trans failure so am a bit nervous about the powershift but I don't think it's reason to avoid the vehicle but if you're really worried you can also get the wagon in 2.3l NA petrol (MB,MC) or the 2.0 ecoboost (MD) both with torque converter auto. Unless you're doing big km then these might be just as cost effective to run once you factor in the higher diesel/powershift servicing costs and current diesel prices. MD ecoboost would be my pick but very few around.

A few other points to consider in your shopping.


Give it a good test drive. Diesel/Powershift combo is extremely sluggish off the line, but otherwise great. I'm not racing, I just want to be able to pull out safely into a gap in traffic. I need double the gap for the mondeo v's anything else I've driven.


MC LX model stereo can only do bluetooth calls, not music. This was a big reason I got a zetec. The stereo in that and the titanium is bloody good IMO.

No reversing cameras in MB, MC models

[AlanM]

I'd definitely err on the side of doing the oil changes early.
I recently bought a mk4 Mondeo cheap with a "stuffed" powershift.

It was behaving pretty badly, slipping,lurching, missing gears, it was questionable if it would make it home. On the positive side, shifting manually seemed to find every gear, and running in 6th at 100 was excellent.

I'd sourced a reconditioned transmission in Melbourne for $2000 exchange, plus freight.

I decided to gamble $250 on servicing the mechatronics unit and changing the fluid and cartridge filter before going to the length of pulling out the gearbox.

There's a series of videos on YouTube on pulling out and cleaning up the valve body, solenoids etc. I'd decided that if I found bits of spring retainers in the fluid or filters, the box was going. Luckily I didn't find even a fragment. The fluid was absolutely filthy and smelled burnt though.

So I basically followed the videos. Some of the solenoid valves were virtually stuck solid and quite difficult to extract. I actually sanded hard scum off with wet and dry paper. They moved nice and smoothly afterwards.

I ran Forscan and did a clutch and shift fork relearn, and the transformation was amazing!

Not perfect, but much better. I'd done the clutch relearn at the minimum allowed temp of 40', so I decided to do it again at the Max 70', since the transmission seemed to be worse when hot.

That made a huge difference, and a few hundred km later the transmission is pretty bloody good.

So, in a very long winded way, I guess I'm saying the fluid can make a huge difference and even though it's not cheap, it's an awful lot cheaper than the best priced reconditioned transmission you'll find. And a lot less work!

[rondeo]

Thanks for a truly gearbox warming story!

Clutch engagement seems a likely suspect in fluid blackening. Wear products in the fluid reduce its lubricating quality and form deposits.

Given the expense of fluid changes, maybe some oil quality guide would be handy. Age degredation maybe explains maximum 3 years between changes specification. Removing the filler plug on top of the transmission and poking a bamboo skewer or suchlike might help in deciding to change or not before the 60000km specified interval.

City driving and many clutch engagements vs highway driving might mean it's likely not always necessary to change fluid early. With mainly highway driving the fluid looks pretty clean in mine.

When you think about it, the fluid is doing two seeming contradictory jobs: allowing the clutch plates to engage without slipping, while at the same time lubricating the gears. No wonder it stinks like it does.

[AlanM]

Originally Posted by rondeo

Thanks for a truly gearbox warming story!

Clutch engagement seems a likely suspect in fluid blackening. Wear products in the fluid reduce its lubricating quality and form deposits.

Given the expense of fluid changes, maybe some oil quality guide would be handy. Age degredation maybe explains maximum 3 years between changes specification. Removing the filler plug on top of the transmission and poking a bamboo skewer or suchlike might help in deciding to change or not before the 60000km specified interval.

City driving and many clutch engagements vs highway driving might mean it's likely not always necessary to change fluid early. With mainly highway driving the fluid looks pretty clean in mine.

When you think about it, the fluid is doing two seeming contradictory jobs: allowing the clutch plates to engage without slipping, while at the same time lubricating the gears. No wonder it stinks like it does.

Same thing with motorbikes. On the two strokes I used to race, the oil had to lubricate the gearbox and the wet clutch.

And on (most) four stroke bikes the oil has to lube the engine, as well as the gearbox and the wet clutch. Some used to be largely oil cooled too.

Interestingly, on our race bikes, the gear oil usually stayed pretty clean, except on Kawasakis. It would get really black really quickly on them.

I guess on the DCT 450s we have, the fluid has to operate hydraulic servos too.

When I worked in the oil industry, we used to send oil samples off for analysis. If you were really fanatical or fastidious I guess that could be an option.

To me, the Powershift transmissions seem to be very reactive to anything less than perfect conditions. By that I mean minor faults seem to cause major symptoms.

And professionals seem to see them as a golden goose. Every time I've heard anyone talking about quotes to repair them it's always excessively expensive. Even wreckers want around $4000+ for a second hand one, without mentioning the fact that you can't just fit a second hand one and expect it to work. It won't, the TCMs are VIN coded.

So for myself, I'll probably change the fluid a bit more frequently. Maybe even yearly, after the boxing day sales when the fluid is a bit cheaper.

What's really annoying is that the primary filter on the suction side of the oil pump can't be changed without removing and pulling down the entire transmission.
It's frustrating because you can actually see and touch it by just removing the plastic cover on the valve body. And you can buy a new one for around $40.

I have read in a you tube comment that someone managed to lever one out and squeeze a new one in while still installed. I'd like to get hold of a transmission and see if it can be done.

[ivorya]

I know mine says every 60K but i've been doing mine every 30K, Just for piece of mind

[AlanM]

Originally Posted by ivorya

I know mine says every 60K but i've been doing mine every 30K, Just for piece of mind

I think that's a good investment.

[xf_vanner]

So what's the 'sports automatic' in the ma/mb diesel models? Just the traditional torque converter auto?

[GTLEGEND]

Originally Posted by xf_vanner

So what's the 'sports automatic' in the ma/mb diesel models? Just the traditional torque converter auto?

So from 2007 MA to 3/2010 that had traditional AWF21 6 Speed auto, after that they went to the Powershift MPS6 6DCT450 (wet clutch).

[xf_vanner]

Originally Posted by GTLEGEND

So from 2007 MA to 3/2010 that had traditional AWF21 6 Speed auto, after that they went to the Powershift MPS6 6DCT450 (wet clutch).

Right, thank you. Couldn't find the info anywhere.

[NZ XR6]

Originally Posted by xf_vanner

Right, thank you. Couldn't find the info anywhere.

My MB manufactured 8/2010 has the 6-speed auto, but some of the last MB's have the Powershift.

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[xf_vanner]

Originally Posted by NZ XR6

My MB manufactured 8/2010 has the 6-speed auto, but some of the last MB's have the Powershift.

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

How've you found it? I just got out of a dsg car, hated stop/start traffic.
I need the economy though so diesel mondeo in 6 spd auto could be next, actually looked at an xr5 the other day but close to 180,000 and I need a highway hack.

Territory's in diesel are hard to find lower ks and are disappearing quick

[NZ XR6]

Originally Posted by xf_vanner

How've you found it? I just got out of a dsg car, hated stop/start traffic.

I need the economy though so diesel mondeo in 6 spd auto could be next, actually looked at an xr5 the other day but close to 180,000 and I need a highway hack.



Territory's in diesel are hard to find lower ks and are disappearing quick

It's been good, in fact I'm trying to replace it and it's difficult to find another SUV or wagon that's as nice to drive without spending a lot of money.

I live in Auckland, which is quite hilly where we live and a DCT would not be fun in traffic. But the Powershift would be better and more economical away from the city.

The auto is fine, changes smoothly except for the very occasional jerk if you close the throttle as it's shifting from 1st to 2nd. In manual mode the torque converter stays locked until very low revs, so you can drive it like a manual if you want.

Only thing is they're getting quite old now and I've had the odd electrical fault in the last couple of years.



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