Tesla ‘autopilot’ crash driver to stand trial after critically injuring woman

[FTE217]

thats the point re this case re mention of stupid people/drivers.
Why would you use auto pilot on in the burbs let alone with tram lines on the streets you frequent.

[Franco Cozzo]

Our favorite automotive 'journalist' has put his two cents into this one as well, similar opinion to mine with the naming of 'autopilot'.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Too much focus of the use of a term, IMHO. Anyone in the aviation world knows that autopilots have been around for decades but no one interprets that as meaning there's no requirement for a pilot to monitor, and remain in control of the aircraft, even when the autopilot is engaged.

And how is the term 'autopilot' any different to 'cruise control' in the connotations that term ascribes? We only know the limitations of the term from many years of using a vehicle with that function and a decent description of the system's limitations in the drivers handbook.

I'd imagine the handbook for the Tesla describes in detail the limitations of the system. Imagine how many pages of warnings there are in the handbook on that function alone! But, who reads handbooks, right? Let's just make our own assumptions around a term that's used and run with that

A quick search on wiki shows that Tesla's 'autopilot' system is only classified as Level 2 under the SAE six levels (0 to 5) of vehicle automation. Even the wiki page highlights that the driver still needs to be monitoring progress of the vehicle (my bold):

Level 2 ("hands off"): The automated system takes full control of the vehicle: accelerating, braking, and steering. The driver must monitor the driving and be prepared to intervene immediately at any time if the automated system fails to respond properly. The shorthand "hands off" is not meant to be taken literally – contact between hand and wheel is often mandatory during SAE 2 driving, to confirm that the driver is ready to intervene. The eyes of the driver may be monitored by cameras to confirm that the driver is keeping their attention to traffic. Actual hands off driving is sometimes considered level 2.5, although there are no official half-levels. A common example is adaptive cruise control, which also utilizes lane keeping assist technology so that the driver simply monitors the vehicle, such as "Super-Cruise" in the Cadillac CT6 by General Motors or Ford's F-150 BlueCruise.[84]

[Franco Cozzo]

I reckon its misleading customers, its similar to the Lorna Jane fiasco and the COVID beating pants.

False claims and misleading impressions
Businesses mustn't mislead consumers

Businesses should be honest in their dealings. Businesses shouldn't try to gain an unfair advantage by making misleading claims about their products or services.

It makes no difference whether a business intends to mislead or not.

https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/ad...leading-claims

This is from Tesla's own website:

Features

Autopilot enables your car to steer, accelerate and brake automatically within its lane. Enhanced Autopilot and Full Self-Driving capability introduce additional features and improve existing functionality to make your car more capable over time, including:

https://www.tesla.com/en_au/model3

So 'full self-driving capability', what does that mean to everyone here? To me that means it drives itself - until you use 'autopilot' in the suburbs and it ices a pedestrian getting off a tram.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I reckon its misleading customers, its similar to the Lorna Jane fiasco and the COVID beating pants.



https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/ad...leading-claims

This is from Tesla's own website:



https://www.tesla.com/en_au/model3

So 'full self-driving capability', what does that mean to everyone here? To me that means it drives itself - until you use 'autopilot' in the suburbs and it ices a pedestrian getting off a tram.

And that is exactly where the problem lies, with these moronic Tosla fools that think it's so much more advanced and safer than any other system, when it's also more dangerous and not as effective as systems from other manufacturers, who never mention things like "full self driving" and "autopilot". They go to lengths to make it clear it's not fully self driving.

Too many of these Elon worshipping sheep believe the hype, and think it's fool proof. Despite all the evidence of it literally crashing into solid objects it failed to see. The system is a dud. And so are the owners who got suckered into thinking it's so much more advanced than what it is.

[prktkljokr]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

This is from Tesla's own website:



https://www.tesla.com/en_au/model3

So 'full self-driving capability', what does that mean to everyone here? To me that means it drives itself - until you use 'autopilot' in the suburbs and it ices a pedestrian getting off a tram.

This is what sucks about advertising, just like on TV when they give you a projected earning on your superannuation, then in the small print at the bottom of the screen they put that future projection may not be the same.

They can quote whatever they like in their sales pitch as long as they have a disclaimer.

They can put in there that the car can fly, as long as they say the only way for it to fly is to launch the car off a cliff, and that this is a dangerous manoeuvre that could result in death, their lawyers could get them off any litigation brought about by anyone trying it.

They have it everywhere that the auto pilot can do all these amazing things, BUT, you still have to be observant and be ready to take control.

There was a case I remember hearing when I was a kid where a US salesman told a customer that cruise control virtually drove the Winnebago, the customer set it up on a highway and hopped up to make himself a coffee, subsequently crashing the Winnebago, the guy sued the dealership for misleading him in thinking that the Winnebago would drive itself.

Pretty sure this is why the include all these warnings now when you buy things, "may contain nuts", "results may not match what is described", "Tesla’s autopilot mode is designed to enable the car to steer, accelerate and brake automatically within its lane. However, the function still requires drivers to actively monitor their surroundings and keep their hands on the wheel".

[Citroënbender]

Are you suggesting that a Tesla may contain nuts?

[prktkljokr]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Are you suggesting that a Tesla may contain nuts?

Ones that think that with Auto pilot they can get into the back seat for a sleep

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I reckon its misleading customers, its similar to the Lorna Jane fiasco and the COVID beating pants.



https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/ad...leading-claims

This is from Tesla's own website:



https://www.tesla.com/en_au/model3

So 'full self-driving capability', what does that mean to everyone here? To me that means it drives itself - until you use 'autopilot' in the suburbs and it ices a pedestrian getting off a tram.

I think you're misinterpreting the term that Tesla uses for automation and the fact that it has various levels of automoation. From the wiki page on Tesla Automation:

Tesla Autopilot is a suite of advanced driver-assistance system (ADAS) features offered by Tesla

Driving features
Tesla's Autopilot is classified as Level 2 under the SAE six levels (0 to 5) of vehicle automation.[160] At this level, the car can act autonomously, but requires the driver to monitor the driving at all times and be prepared to take control at a moment's notice.[161][162] Tesla's owner's manual states that Autopilot should not be used on city streets or on roads where traffic conditions are constantly changing;[163][164][165] however, some FSD capabilities ("traffic and stop sign control (beta)"), and future FSD capabilities ("autosteer on city streets") are advertised for city streets.[166]

There's a table in there that talks about the different levels of the suite and they use the term Autopilot, Enhanced Autopilot and Full Self Driving.

Autopilot is not the same as Full Self Driving. They're two different levels of automation under that suite.

It's nowhere near being the same thing as the Lorna Jane thing, IMHO. In this case, I think you're focused on one term and applied it to a suite of capabilities that mean different things.