cylinder contribution - help. injectors??

[beclawrence001]

Hello,

I have a ford transit, 2011. 4 cylinder manual, 150k km.
This issue is driving me nuts and no mechanic is really taking it seriously.
So, for some history I believe I got some bad diesel in January or something electrical was damaged by water, as I was in a huge storm in my van at the beach. The day after that storm the car started to hunt at idle, in general was louder but still drove good and has no power loss or smoke.
Back in January when it started I put in a diesel bug killer and that made the hunting go down a lot but it came back and eventually a mechanic listened and changed the scv. BUT after the scv and the fuel filter was changed the car now idles a lot worse, it is a lot louder, vibrated and has a slight shake you can see in the engine. Another weird symptom after the scv change is the car takes like 3 times longer to warm up.
The vibration/idle shake is worse when it is hot.
It also has a glow plug circuit code and a GB module code. But it had those before the scv was changed, so I suspect something fuel related, but maybe it is electrical?
I had the fuel pressure checked at idle was normal
Does not hunt or sputter or loose power.
Today a new mechanic checked the live data on his scanner and the cylinder contribution was all over the place. One was -600 and one was +500 something, the other two were between 200-300.
This was at idle when the engine was at operating temp.
So I am wondering if anyone has any ideas about what this could be. Could it be electrical or fuel related?
What should I get tested
I am wondering if it is the ecu messing up the fuel delivery? Bad wiring or something?

I would love some opinions
Thanks
Bec
beclawrence007
Newbie

Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2023 11:17 pm

[Citroënbender]

That does have suggestions of an unstable electrical supply - shame the fellow didn’t check the sensor rail voltage (5V, should be stable) for you.

If it was just one injector consistently, you’d look at that. I’d start by fully charging the battery and having it load tested.

[beclawrence001]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

That does have suggestions of an unstable electrical supply - shame the fellow didn’t check the sensor rail voltage (5V, should be stable) for you.

If it was just one injector consistently, you’d look at that. I’d start by fully charging the battery and having it load tested.

hey
thankyou
what part suggests electrical to you?

what about it being worse when it is hot? the numbers went up when hot...?
and because it takes longer to warm up? that makes me think electrical.

Okay it is at an electric guy now so I will ask him to check the sensor rail voltage.

thanks so much

[beclawrence001]

i haven't noticed any oil around the injectors. But there has been water getting into the bonnet when it rains alot and pools around the injectors, but i have been told there is no way water will get in through those seals.

I have bene updated though by the mechanic and he did check the injection value and were apparently normal and there is no electrical issue. I am not really convinced though. With the cylinder contribution numbers it has.
He said the clutch is unbalanced, some plate in there i can't remember the exact thing he said but he said that is throwing off a sensor and the ecu is trying to balance it so making the crazy readings. I do not know if that is possible? anyone?

from what I know has happened I still think it is fuel or electrical or there is a compression issue, but the car runs well and has never lost power.
Also the glow plugs are blown, don't know if something electrical caused that or just old. But it all started at the same time after a massive storm so I really think it is related and after the scv change is when this vibration changed.
so it does not make sense to me that the clutch has anything to do with it, it also had that vibration in the clutch back in november and it has not changed, what changed was a really strong vibration the day I picked it up after the fuel filter and scv and oil was done.

I guess I just have to get the injectors bench tested?

they did a relearn too and was successful

[Citroënbender]

An unstable voltage can be caused by a bad battery because the alternator can’t reliably interact with it - the voltage fluctuates wildly if (for example) a terminal or cell connecting link is physically coming loose inside the battery.

It’s not likely to damage your ECU but as a result of an event like this, your regulated +5V supply that goes to various three-wire sensors may not be staying stable. This is the part I referred to as sensor rail voltage. It’s sometimes also referred to as a reference voltage.

The sparky should also physically disconnect everything that is tacked onto your battery and charging system in a van, in case one of these items is actually guilty. Hopefully it’s in the right hands this time.

[beclawrence001]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

An unstable voltage can be caused by a bad battery because the alternator can’t reliably interact with it - the voltage fluctuates wildly if (for example) a terminal or cell connecting link is physically coming loose inside the battery.

It’s not likely to damage your ECU but as a result of an event like this, your regulated +5V supply that goes to various three-wire sensors may not be staying stable. This is the part I referred to as sensor rail voltage. It’s sometimes also referred to as a reference voltage.

The sparky should also physically disconnect everything that is tacked onto your battery and charging system in a van, in case one of these items is actually guilty. Hopefully it’s in the right hands this time.

okay. Thanks so much.
I have the van back now, they apparently tested everything and didnt think it was anything electrical. So I will probably have to find someone else. But I will mention that test the next time.
I know it is probably either fuel or electrics at this point. But they did do the injection values which were normal. but cyl contribution was all over the place so i don't know what that suggests, maybe not injectors?
he just thinks it is related to the clutch, lywheel maybe too and it affecting the ecu balancing the cylinders.

I should probably get them bench tested?

I see that you are in sydney i am too. are you a mechanic by any chance?


bec

[Citroënbender]

I moonlight between other jobs, in a general automotive workshop near Hornsby, but we’re getting slaughtered at the moment.

Dual mass flywheels can go bad, which is expensive. IMO they shouldn’t be replaced with solid unless there is a good reason to change.

[beclawrence001]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

I moonlight between other jobs, in a general automotive workshop near Hornsby, but we’re getting slaughtered at the moment.

Dual mass flywheels can go bad, which is expensive. IMO they shouldn’t be replaced with solid unless there is a good reason to change.

yeah I know that there is a clutch issue, he mentioned some plate thats unbalanced, but in your opinion is it something that could cause those cylinder contribution numbers? I am not convinced about that yet and I don't want to just leave it if it is a bad injector and damage the engine.

[Citroënbender]

Try shooting a PM to “goz007” in case he can offer some input. I’d take his advice to the bank on most things diesel.

Definitely don’t rule out the idea that several things might be contributing at the same time; it’s human nature to look for a solitary cause when in reality there could be more…

[beclawrence001]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Try shooting a PM to “goz007” in case he can offer some input. I’d take his advice to the bank on most things diesel.

Definitely don’t rule out the idea that several things might be contributing at the same time; it’s human nature to look for a solitary cause when in reality there could be more…

Okay thanks I will send him a message

thanks so much
Bec