WQ Fiesta XR4/ST150 with Mazda SP25 engine - Page 6

**Luke Plaizier** · 02-09-2019, 09:40 PM

I did a little bit of sleuthing to see if I could find any discussions or images sympathetic to my problem, and I came across the image below. Originally I grabbed this image because it gave me an indication of how the passenger side engine mount should work. BUT, I note now that there is a red line in this image (took me a bit to see it, I am red/green colour blind....) showing where the main brace had been cut away to make room for the selector spindle!

It also shows that this transmission seems to be mounted a bit lower in the chassis than I have it. Which also confirms my need to lower about 10mm to clear the chassis rail.

It's all making more sense now.....

Lukeyson

**Luke Plaizier** · 11-09-2019, 01:57 PM

So, a little update before I have to move onto other things for a month or so.

Firstly, I have done some things to reset the height of the upper transmission mount. Ultimately I would have to add about 15mm to the height of it. So I put a spacer of that size there for the moment and grabbed a longer bolt to get a feel for it. That 15mm change results in the clearances that I need.

So, with that established, out came the trans again so I could attack the bracket for the upper mount. Like the image above, I marked out what I thought I needed to remove to clear the selector, while minimizing my impact on the strength of the bracket.

My dremel only just squeezed in there, and was taking me quite a lot of time to get through what seems to be 3mm or 4mm metal bracketing. But eventually we had our new notch - even if it wasn't as clean a cut as I would have liked:

Then I lifted the trans back up into place, set to the new height, and checked my selector clearances.

Looks much better now from above:

Reverse/5th

3rd/4th

1st/2nd

SO in summary, we have now completed:

(1) Interior and shifter
(a) Adapter plate for shifter - done
(a) Relocation of the 10mm bull stud to a lower position. (This might also need the 10mm stuf on the selector to be relocated closer to the pivot on the transmission as well, so I don't length the shift-throw too much.) - to be done
(b) Modifications to console - in progress.
(c) Selector cables - in progress. The LT focus cables are about 15cm too long. I have been investigating alternatives. I expect an alternative will need a different abutment bracket on the transmission.

(2) Transmission Upper mount - pretty much done, but would benefit from me making a new one with a higher threaded upright piece.

(3) ABS Module relocation bracket - done. But that too could benefit from some slight re-profiling to better match the residual angle of the ABS module.

(4) Lower engine mount - in progress, but I have the beginning of a plan forming using the Mondeo MkIII torque bush, I just need to fabricate myself a finger-brake using my current vice-tool to fit my 12T press.....

Lukeyson

**Luke Plaizier** · 27-10-2019, 03:10 PM

Well, after a month or so, I thought I could get back into this. However, after going on Holidays in our '04 Territory, it has come back with a list of repairs it needs. P/Steer hose, front diff mounts, rear diff axle seals and a couple of others. So I'll not be getting back to the Fister for just a little while yet.

Although..... since the 2nd 'test' XR4 I got is a write off, I just found a little 2 door '07 WQ that is not a write off that I'm thinking about getting and swapping all the XR bits into. I won't badge it an XR - but I might badge it a Ghia for ****s and giggles, and get it back on the road.

Luke

**Luke Plaizier** · 30-10-2019, 07:15 PM

I finally had someone on the Facebook XR4 group post an image of a SiCo lower transmission mount as installed.

A reminder of the parts-image I found on an eBay listing:

A now this image of the same kit installed:

That looks like a C-F-M LR Focus Transmission Mount to me.

Although in an earlier pic, it looks like a standard LR Focus lower trans mount with a Powerflex Insert was used:

Luke

**Luke Plaizier** · 30-10-2019, 07:18 PM

After doing a bit of research I can see why they went this way. I was looking at using a Mondeo MkIII torque bush, but when I started looking up options for insert replacements or performance parts, I could not find any. The two that seem to be the most popular are the earlier Focus 90 degree bushes, or the Fiesta torque bush.

I think I'm going to take a crack at making a plate-steel bracket using the Fiesta bush first. But if that doesn't work, that one above looks like a pretty simple option to fall back to.

Lukeyson

V8falcons · 31-10-2019, 12:53 PM

Yep ok.. looks simple enough to replicate ..
Always an interesting read Luke

**Luke Plaizier** · 01-11-2019, 02:28 PM

Soo many Fiesta lower trans bush options? Some of them with the rubber moulded into the cast outer, others with the rubbers moulded into an insert, that is then pressed into the cast. So I am ignoring those moulded into the bracket since you can't replace those with aftermarket bushes.

That still leaves me with two main types of bushes for the Fiesta. 4S61-6P082-AB / 1308643 seems to be for the auto trans, and 8V51-6P082-AD / 1695146 for the manual trans. But if I'm going to try to make a bracket from flat plate then the auto looks like the pick.

Maybe.

The Manual mount, that we might all be familiar with:

The auto mount, that does not have the protrusion on the thinner end, but otherwise seems the same.

Lukeyson

**Luke Plaizier** · 01-11-2019, 02:59 PM

Kelpro MT7865
Febest FDM-CBKRR

Lukeyson

V8falcons · 30-11-2019, 07:15 AM

hows things progressing Luke..?

**Luke Plaizier** · 10-12-2019, 02:39 PM

Still paused sorry. Minor surgery slowed me down a bit. Terry still not done, and now that it's hot I go even slower again.

But before that I ended up buying 2 x 3 Door Zetec wrecks for parts for a couple hundred each rather than just the one - both are re-registerable shells and confirmed as not being written off. One turned out to be so good I'm just cleaning it up for resale (unless one of my kids decides they want it). The other is a bit worse, but will be used to receive the parts from my XR4 wreck 'lab' chassis once I've finished experimenting. I've just been cleaning the resale one (will be practicing some Paintless Dent Repair and windscreen removal skills shortly) and stripping down the other the last few weekends. Both the XR4 wreck and the new target chassis have some bits damaged or missing - but luck would have it that between the two of them I have almost everything I need.

I watched the latest episode of Project Binky this week (Ep 27) and I note they shortened their existing Shifter Cables. It was all a bit quick and didn't cover everything, but it gave me gumption to think I could shorten mine instead of getting custom one's made up. AT the moment, I've had a bit of a rethink on using the Focus shifter in the Fiesta - it is just too tall and causes too many compromises in the centre console. So I am currently investigating just using the Fiesta shifter with the Focus box - all the levers go the right way at the right time and have similar reach so it looks feasible. The only question remains is whether I can make customer shifter cables work.....

Lukeyson

escortman · 24-12-2019, 09:19 PM

Doesn't seem to be to much info on the mtx 75 conversion , but we have a xr4 with this conversion, bought the car a a few years ago with this already done.
Uses the same kit a pictured earlier by luke.

**Luke Plaizier** · 26-12-2019, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by escortman

Doesn't seem to be to much info on the mtx 75 conversion , but we have a xr4 with this conversion, bought the car a a few years ago with this already done.
Uses the same kit a pictured earlier by luke.

Cheers

What does your centre console look like? If it looks like any normal factory fiesta on the inside, any chance you could pop off the cover over the shifter and take pics of how the cables are connected?

Luke

escortman · 27-12-2019, 09:23 PM

Originally the top cover ( coin tray part ) fowls on the top shifter linkage, what the previous owner did was cut a piece out so the cover would fit ( looked crap ) so i cut up a piece plastic and glued it in ( could be plastic welded but i didnt have that option at the time) I makes the tray area shallower but its useable and looks better.
Cant take a pic of it in situ atm as rebuilding the car .

**Luke Plaizier** · 10-05-2020, 10:38 PM

Just having a bit of a side-explore of the VXT75 transmission - basically a MTX75 with higher torque rating, and fitted to the FWD Diesel Transit Vans. I poked some chat up on Facebook but will copy it here...

The Duratec LF 2.0 in the XR4 is good for 190Nm. We know that the gearbox is a marginal thing in the XR4, so lets put the IB5+ boxes peak limit at around 200Nm. Which makes sense - there are documents showing that even the earlier 1.7 was a little over powered for the base IB5 - the IB5+ must be at least a little bit stronger given the application.

I then found a Ford document for the 4x4 version of the MTX75. That document lists the MTX75 as rated for 280Nm. So let's assume that the all have a similar rating. Here's the link (Page 9): Ford Mondeo 4x4 MTX75 Technical Service Training

The 2.2 TDCi in the 2008 Transit is rated at 285Nm, although I see that the 2.2 TDCi Duratorq Puma can overboost to 310Nm. So we can easily assume that the VXT75 is rated to at least 310Nm, and probably higher. I thought I was on the money with this link below, but while it gives the Torque rating of the powerplants, it doesn't give the same for the transmissions. Ford Powertrain Product Guide 2007

There's a 2.4 Duratorq TDCi Puma that is rated to 375Nm, but it looks like that is a RWD application with either the MT75 5 Spd or more likely the MT82 6 Spd.....

But all this looks like it pales in comparison to the MMT6. This non-official link quotes 450Nm for boxes built between 5/03 to 5/05 and 500Nm thereafter. I don't seem to be able to find any models that shipped to Australia with the MMT6 other than Focus ST models. It can be found on a whole heap of cars in Europe - MkIII Focus, C-Max,S-Max, Galaxy and both the MK3 and MkIV Mondeos. The MkIV Mondeo that hit Australia only came with some rare 5 Speed manuals - MTX's again. The only other hope might have been the Kuga, but since the Euro Kuga didn't come to replace the US Escape until 2012, the only 6 Speed Manual is on the Volvo Turbo engine and that's a different beast altogether. Talkford Discussion on Torque Ratings

Lukeyson

**Luke Plaizier** · 10-05-2020, 10:54 PM

I'd missed your pictures Escortman. Thanks.

It looks your shifter is from an LS Focus, and the cutout of the console is the exact same issue I was having. Whilst I'm still lining up all my ducks and building up my plan, that is one thing I'd considered backpedalling on - the LS focus cables are a bit too long in the Fiesta engine bay, and so I was tending towards custom cables. And if custom cables are needed, I may as well use the WQ Fiesta shifter and side step the whole centre console interference issue altogether.

I came across FirstLine and their listings for Ford shifter cables. They have an aussie seller on eBay that lists the cable/sheath lengths for a range of different installs. I took measurements of the LS Focus shifter for example, and I was dead on tip to tip, but about 5mm our on sheath abutment to abutment.
First Line FKG1049
eBay FKG1049 with better dimensioning

The biggest question I have - Ford shifters seem to have a custom Abutment Sleeve/Collar that engages over the native cable abutment and slots into the abutment cradles at each end. I have two questions.

(1) Can these abutment sleeves be purchased from anywhere? I have been looking without any luck. The trick is to find a part number. OR

(2) Is there any way to cleanly remove them from unwanted shifter cables? I have been looking and trying delicately, but so far I think it either needs a special tool, or I'm going to try too hard and inadvertently enter the 'destructive' disassembly process....

Ford Gearshift Cables - with references to Abutment Sleeve/Collar

Lukeyson

Aaron · 11-05-2020, 08:29 AM

I had a brief chat with an Engineer out going 2.3L. It still requires a certificate but it doesn’t require all the testing of things like brakes etc.

Personally I’m keeping a lazy eye open for a 2.3. Then it will either have a piggyback cam controller or I’ll have to disable the VVT. It’s my “if it pops” plan.

That’s a two two stage trick with a non-VVT cam gear required as well as a blanking plug in the head. The stock 2.0 ecu and injectors have sufficient latitude to run the 2.3, but the 60mm throttle body would be handy ;)

I keep thinking about the gearbox though. Mazda G35M-R and G36M-R (5 and 6 speed respectively) seem to look a bit more fitment friendly than the MTX75. In particular the end housing that has to work in the same space as the frame (even on an IB5).

Aaron · 11-05-2020, 08:29 AM

Oh and look at some Mazda2 shifter and cable setups.

**Luke Plaizier** · 27-06-2021, 06:23 PM

Cold weather always gets me back into the shed.

I've spent my days developing a press-folded bracket that uses a Mazda CX7 Torque Rod and bolts up to the MTX75 transmission. The existing bracket on the cross member though has to be cut off - I used a dremel - and replaced with a different bracket that is press-folded. I chose the CX7 torque rod because I can find some performance versions for those that want to stiffen up the mount.

CX7 vs standard Torque rods:

Lukeyson

**Luke Plaizier** · 27-06-2021, 06:30 PM

I had drawn up in CAD and 3D printed some prototypes and test fit to one of the MTX75 gearboxes I have in the shed.

This model is a 'gully gusseted' version and how I'd anticipate it to look once fully assembled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmuzDiWLgL4

Press-bending limits what you can do because of the way any bend tool needs to access the piece. SO this is what was printed and test fitted:

Lukeyson

**Luke Plaizier** · 27-06-2021, 06:35 PM

And these are the parts bent up and test fitted to the MTX75 hanging off my existing upper mount:

Lukeyson

**Luke Plaizier** · 15-07-2021, 02:45 PM

I found a place locally that does metal laser cutting. I submitted DXF exports of my CAD files and placed an order. Have just picked them up today, and they have a comfortingly familiar look about them.

Lukeyson

**Luke Plaizier** · 19-10-2021, 09:54 AM

I know I have a lot of open projects still needing completion and shouldn't be looking at new things, but one bit that has been bothering me is the Drivers Side engine mount. They fail. And they aren't available from Ford anymore - so the only option is to buy aftermarkets.

It has occurred to me though that we should be able to fix them ourselves. Unmixed Shore A 60 to 70 Polyurethane can be purchased easily enough ready for moulding. And it is possible to create a 3D printed Mould in which to pour Polyurethane. So it seems to me a no brainer - why could we not simply re-mould the flexible component of the engine mount in Polyurethane?

This could naturally lead to casting Polyurethane suspension bushes, exhaust hanger mounts and all sorts of neat stuff.

Here are some videos that gave me inspiration:

Lukeyson

Aaron · 19-10-2021, 11:26 AM

I ended up squeezing the Poly mount inserts into mine. They definitely increased NVH and proved that my mount had collapsed quite a bit.

Filling the mount would be an option for sure, We used to do this with mounts back in the day either by filling with a Sikkaflex Poly or with a harder resin. In both cases having a softer but not air fill in the voids helped immensely. I would say a quite soft void fill (50-60 duro) on an undamaged mount would be the magic. By the time the mounts have aged it’s all over.

I have often wondered if we could hybrid a new mount design but keep ending up at the vibratechnics rabbit hole of “more NVH”.

What I want is basically factory NVH with the ability to simply replace as worn. So a more generic isolator component with fabricated attachment to the motor and body.

Aaron · 19-10-2021, 11:58 AM

On the gearbox mounting front - how “right” do think things are with your designs now? Have we crossed the tipping point of understanding the shopping list for the conversion?

I am of a mind that collectively the XR4 community has hit the point where spare/good used gearboxes are so hard to find and expensive that MTX75 swapping becomes far more viable. So far the shopping list seems to be:
- MTX75 from LS/LT/LV 2.0 Duratec car
- Clutch hydraulic lines from same (aka over gearbox and firewall elements, clutch master is common)
- Hybrid driveshalfts - either combination of Focus and Fiesta shafts DIY or pre-assembled sets are available via eBay
- Mount bracket set (Lukeysons designs are nicest I’ve seen)
- CX7 rear mount
- ABS mount bracket
- LS/LT/LV Shifter assembly, or custom cables for Fiesta shifter (perhaps cable adapters).

Sound about right?

Thinking about the shifter. There are now bushes or inserts available for the shifter end, Focus RS bushes work on the XR4 shifter, so there’s something in how the joints assemble that makes me think a conversion bush may be viable. Cable length hasn’t been something other conversions have dealt with either so perhaps it’s a red herring?

**Luke Plaizier** · 24-10-2021, 05:45 PM

Finally got the shed hack car back on the hoist today - to take a crack at the Focus LR 2.0 MTX shifter cables. On first look, they appear a tad shorter than the LS Focus shifter cables in total length, but the sheath looks longer. I've got them through the firewall - finally - and am trying to get them to work with the WQ shifter first. It was an end-of-the-day job so I only made it so far before the excess scraped knuckles said to stop for the day. I'm not optimistic...

Lukeyson

**Luke Plaizier** · 19-03-2022, 02:32 PM

Slow and steady, my bodge welds haven't ruined it, the MTX transmission is finally no longer swinging in the breeze.

There's a bit of movement in the bolt through the large-end of the bush - the bolt I have, and the OEM bolt, are both M14 - but the diameter of the bush itself seems to be m15.

I think in the final product I'd make the nut on the transmission-side bracket a welded captive nut as well, it's a bit of a gefinferpoken job to get it in there.

Lukeyson

**Luke Plaizier** · 09-12-2023, 07:41 PM

Just popping out of hibernation to add that our road registered XR4 has finally suffered from a clutch failure. Which means .... drumroll ... the race is on to get this L5/MTX swapped ready for June 2024. All the research is done. I do want to modify that lower trans mount so it doesn't hang so low, but otherwise we have a plan of action. Time to get moving....