V8 petrol power to live on at Aston Martin

[Sprintey]

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-new...as-it-develops

[fatgas]

I think the car world has realised EV's as they are being sold to the sheep, I mean masses, are a furphy at best and a money pit which will send them broke.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by fatgas

I think the car world has realised EV's as they are being sold to the sheep, I mean masses, are a furphy at best and a money pit which will send them broke.

Even after reading the other thread you say this?!

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[kypez]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-new...as-it-develops

Irrelevant really given they don't sell to the masses. They're borderline a Bespoke company. Good they will keep selling them but no doubt with electrification that introduces weight and complexity that wouldn't excite me in the least.

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[fatgas]

Originally Posted by kypez

Irrelevant really given they don't sell to the masses. They're borderline a Bespoke company. Good they will keep selling them but no doubt with electrification that introduces weight and complexity that wouldn't excite me in the least.

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They are a bespoke company, no two Aston Martins are alike.

But their response is quite relevant as they aren't in a position to put their eggs in one basket, especially when the eggs are rotten.

I can appreciate the positives that come with a current spec EV, however I can't look past the glaring deficiencies in function, production and economics. I want to see the demise of the fossil fuel industry more than anyone on here but as it stands, there isn't a viable alternative that is at the very least, like for like but better in every aspect.

[whynot]

I know I keep harping on about this ... but technology doesn't travel in a liner and progressive manner. It has fits and starts. Sometimes even complete u-turns.

Take some flops, like,

Theranos (blood testing)
Google Glass
3D TV
Microsoft Kin
Apple Lisa
Apple Newton
Segway

Yet, there is little doubt that in the longer term, blood testing will be central to the health system. And they seem to be able to draw less blood yet understand more about the inner workings of the body.

Google Glass lost the PR battle, but VR headsets seem to be a thing.

Apple Newton was a complete flop at the time. But the core idea has morphed (over a few decades) into the iPhone.

As for EV ... it seems to have hit one of those inflection points that suggests that the market for EV is saturated, for now.

Yet, look at the technology progress happening on a number of fronts. Petrol engines, diesel engines, hybrid technologies, battery technologies, hydrogen economy, etc, etc.

All manufacturers are vying for your dollars for your personal mobility needs (aka cars). Instead of just ICS, there is now EV, and potentially hydrogen down the track. All of this tension and competition between technologies, ideas, and cost, will in the medium term push along the development of better automobiles. Sure, there will be winners and losers. But that is how our democratic capitalistic society makes progress.

[fatgas]

Originally Posted by whynot

I know I keep harping on about this ... but technology doesn't travel in a liner and progressive manner. It has fits and starts. Sometimes even complete u-turns.

Take some flops, like,

Theranos (blood testing)
Google Glass
3D TV
Microsoft Kin
Apple Lisa
Apple Newton
Segway

Yet, there is little doubt that in the longer term, blood testing will be central to the health system. And they seem to be able to draw less blood yet understand more about the inner workings of the body.

Google Glass lost the PR battle, but VR headsets seem to be a thing.

Apple Newton was a complete flop at the time. But the core idea has morphed (over a few decades) into the iPhone.

As for EV ... it seems to have hit one of those inflection points that suggests that the market for EV is saturated, for now.

Yet, look at the technology progress happening on a number of fronts. Petrol engines, diesel engines, hybrid technologies, battery technologies, hydrogen economy, etc, etc.

All manufacturers are vying for your dollars for your personal mobility needs (aka cars). Instead of just ICS, there is now EV, and potentially hydrogen down the track. All of this tension and competition between technologies, ideas, and cost, will in the medium term push along the development of better automobiles. Sure, there will be winners and losers. But that is how our democratic capitalistic society makes progress.

There is a difference between the tech you listed and the current push towards EV's. There was no agenda behind the demise (or the success) of those products, the people pushing EV's and demonising ICE vehicles aren't doing so from a position of altruism or for the greater good.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by fatgas

There is a difference between the tech you listed and the current push towards EV's. There was no agenda behind the demise (or the success) of those products, the people pushing EV's and demonising ICE vehicles aren't doing so from a position of altruism or for the greater good.

Oh, I disagree with this suggestion. All of those products/technologies were pushed - in some cases very hard - by entrepreneurs trying to make a buck out of a future technology.

For example, the online Investopedia lists one Henry Ford as their fourth greatest entrepreneurs. Now, a lot of people on this forum despise Elon Musk. Which is ironic, as this forum bears the name of a person who was at best a prickly and controversial personality. (Look up the history of Henry Ford sometime...)

Getting back to EV ... I completely agree with your sentiments about certain proponents pushing an unsuitable technology whilst engaging in ideological confrontation. I am particularly annoyed at ALP's ham fisted approach to emissions reduction. And the advertisements they (under the guise of the Commonwealth) have been placing on YouTube are bordering on false representations.

However, in the longer term, I do think that EV are going to be doing a greater share of automobile duties. I think in some cases, the business case for buying an EV is quite compelling. But, once again, the decision to purchase an EV (or not) should be left to the consumer. And not shoved down people's throats or be guilt purchased. I also think the government should stay out of the market. For example, the whingey articles in the SMH for the government to install more EV charging stations is a classic example of inappropriate market intervention.

As for Aston Martin back peddling on their EV plans, I suspect it was a relatively simple engineering decision to make. Most manufacturers have a five to ten year development road map. Most likely Aston Martin pulled their V8 plans out of the rubbish bin and back on the table.

[kypez]

Do Aston even make their own V8? They were using the AMG unit for the Vantage

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[Sprintey]

It's relevant as Aston are so small and top end niche that they could continue with V8s as their customer base like the noise and feel. Add this to Porsche going down the e fuels path. I wonder if Jaguar will do an about turn and keep some of their selling models with their new inline 6 rather than their total switch to 3 new Aston-priced EVs.

It's at a moment of inflection for sure. There's pushback from the working and middle class to EVs as they currently are in the US (big market), and early adopters have bought fully now. Will be interesting to see how it goes - technically the Tony Seba vid at University of Colorado Boulder years ago was along the lines of 2023 was the point at which EV price would be comparable to ICE and EV sales take over, going up a rapid S curve - we're not seeing this, although the cheap price has been achieved by some of the Chinese imports. Tesla has cut 10% of its workforce after a miss in sales, in most recent reporting. Chinese EV makers are in hunger games consolidation, Volvo wrote Polestar to zero, Ford walked back, Jeep walked back, the Germans walked back, GM walked back, a Chinese brand has done a semi-solid state battery - there's creative destruction going on right now.

[Sprintey]

Not only petrol V8 power

but

V12 power! Listen to it roar!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAsARhxdfZU


And Ferrari too!

The incredible 12Cylindri:

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/fir...rpm-v12-engine

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Not only petrol V8 power



but



V12 power! Listen to it roar!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAsARhxdfZU





And Ferrari too!



The incredible 12Cylindri:



https://www.topgear.com/car-news/fir...rpm-v12-engine

At least the 12 is their own

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by kypez

At least the 12 is their own

Aston or Ferrari?

[kypez]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Aston or Ferrari?

Aston. Their V8 is an AMG unit

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by kypez

Aston. Their V8 is an AMG unit

Yeah, I never loved that AMG 4.0 V8, probably because AMG made better engines before it such as the supercharged 5.4 and the 6.2.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Yeah, I never loved that AMG 4.0 V8, probably because AMG made better engines before it such as the supercharged 5.4 and the 6.2.

And the 1990s examples, 7.0-7.3 V12 and 6.0 V8, which will have been direct competitors to what Aston were offering at the time.

[DFB FGXR6]

This doesn't even sound like a V8 to my ears, lacks crispness and sounds so muffled..................




This does though...................

[Sprintey]

August 2023

https://www.drive.com.au/news/merced...n-for-c63-e63/

May 2024

https://www.drive.com.au/news/merced...ing-v8-report/

lol

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

August 2023

https://www.drive.com.au/news/merced...n-for-c63-e63/

May 2024

https://www.drive.com.au/news/merced...ing-v8-report/

lol

Clearly Mercedes-Benz learned the hard way that AMG buyers were buying them for the noise and not just the performance. Same applied to electric performance cars.

[Sprintey]

It is exciting to see that a market and not just gov policy, can still determine what a manufacturer produces.