2011 FORD MONDEO MC Transmission issue

[Sparkz181]

I have a 2011 FORD MONDEO TDCi Auto(DCT) MB, MC GXXGB 05/2010~04/2015 4 Door Wagon FWD DIESEL 2.0 litre, TXBA (D4204T7) I4 16v DOHC Turbo CRD {120kW} I had the dual clutch transmission rebuilt through FORD in Victoria, Australia.
The trans was sent out to be rebuilt after being assessed at FORD, as it just kept dropping gears.
The trans runs OK but I have an intermittent issues that only occurs every now and then.
When I have stopped at a traffic light etc, foot on the brake, the car body lurches forward and back without actually moving the wheels. It feels like a person who is dizzy or has vertigo.
Took it back to FORD they couldn’t find any codes etc, (Apparently this trans does not keep the codes I was told. I have a very good scanner myself an Autel MaxiSys MS906 and it showed no codes either (I did this before I took it to FORD) They said they reset some fuel stuff but it never did this before the rebuilt trans was fitted.
What I have noticed that when the car does this fault, the fuel Lt/hr indicator on the dash changes and I have pics and vids.
Normally in Park or Neutral 0.8-0.9 Lt/hr
Normally in gear 1.1 Lt/hr
Fault figures range from 1.7-4.2 Lt/hr Average is 2.7 Lt/hr but it does vary at times. It doesn't matter what gear the trans is in (DRNP!@#etc), even with every electrical device switched on or off the car still surges.
I hope someone can help provide some advice etc as I have already spent quite a tidy sum of money to have the trans rebuilt plus additional cost for FORD to look at it again not to find any fault.
Thanks in Advance
Steve

[aussiblue]

No idea. But subscribe to to Alan Howatt's YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/@alan4x and send him a message. He's the Mondeo YouTube go to expert and he's usually pretty good at responding albeit he in the Philippines at the moment visiting his Internet mail order girlfriend.

[Sparkz181]

Thank you Blue, I have learnt a lot from Alan. I have never thought to send him a message before definately something to consider, Cheers Steve

[rondeo]

The fuel increase looks like a dpf burn. Normally at idle mine just makes a thumping noise and the exhaust note changes. Could it be related?

[rondeo]

The body could move by a torque reaction due to an engine speed change.
In front wheel drives this would be back and forth.
With the foot on the brake, a gear change might do the same.
So the engine is changing speed or the gearbox is changing gear, or both.
If nothing else.

[aussiblue]

Wasn't there a Alan Howatt video about broken engine stay bars/engine mounts or transmission torque restrictor on a Mondeo that caused similar symptoms? Can't find one though so perhaps it was something he mentioned in passing on a video on another Mondeao subject. In any event a quick visual inspection of the transmission mount to check for wear or breakage wouldn't hurt.

[Mondaveo]

Another thought. You mentioned using a scantool to check for diagnostic codes, but have you tried looking at parameters from the onboard computers while the issue is happening, to get clues to what the car is 'thinking' or trying to do?

Such was the approach I took when I was chasing my own transmission gremlins, which had the car balking or shunting in gear changes, but was intermittent and generally didn't record any error codes. So I set up an arrangement to monitor and record various parameter values from the ECM, TCM etc during general driving, to try to get an insight into what the computers thought they were trying to do. (For specifics I used an OBDLink MX linked by Bluetooth to my smartphone running the mobile Forscan app; not sure if you can achieve similar with your device.) You can read about my experience at the thread here: http://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11452297


For example if you want to know if the car is doing a DPF regeneration when you experience the rocking sensation, that is easily confirmed if you can view a live readout from the exhaust temperature sensor (which will go up to 600°C while the system is burning off the built-up soot). If you suspect it's the gearbox rowing gears, you might be able to get some evidence for this if you can view some of the TCM parameters for the gear shift intention. In my situation, it was a classic case of the faulty gearbox input speed sensor, which was evident in the graphs I made below of some of my recorded data. The red "RPM" line represents the reading of the gearbox sensor that was going bad, in the highlighted regions you can see the trace going crazy which corresponded with the car balking or lurching as the other drivetrain systems couldn't tell what was going on.

[Sparkz181]

Thank you aussiblue, rondeo and Mondaveo for your time and energy trying to assist me. I like your thoughts. Still trying to get my head around all the extra electronic stuff and the new ways it all gets processed by computers.
rondeo, I do have heard a slight thumping noise when stopped. I never knew that a DPF burn would happen at idle. That is good to know. (Info told to FORD also but never any mention….lol). Maybe that is it.
“The body could move by a torque reaction due to an engine speed change.” The tacho does not show any variation, it doesn’t make any difference what gear the trans is in even in Neut or Park. It feels like maybe a trans solenoid is sticking or jamming. Normally once the ignition is turned off for 10-15 seconds the car will return to normal but not always, I would need to repeat ignition off for a bit longer the ok. My assumption is that the trans oil pressure has reduced thus releasing the solenoid.
Thank you for your input rondeo. J
aussiblue, I could only make an assumption that when the trans was removed and replaced that a mount inspection would have been looked at, and again when they had it back on the hoist the next time when checking the fault again.
aussiblue thank you for your input. J
Mondaveo, wow, thanks still learning to use scanner...lol Great to know some more info to check out much appreciated.
You know that we gotta love engineers who design cars. OBDII port in money box which hangs down so far it is dangerous to try to drive the car with the scanner plugged in. Well it seems it is something I will have try to work around safely. Damn these intermittent faults…lol
I do notice in your graphic that the rpm’s inly go crazy for approx. 10 seconds. I my car the revs appear to stay the same but the fuel being used Litres/Hour is a lot.
Mondaveo thank you for you input also.

[Mondaveo]

Originally Posted by Sparkz181

OBDII port in money box which hangs down so far it is dangerous to try to drive the car with the scanner plugged in. Well it seems it is something I will have try to work around safely.

A tip, you can just unclip the coin compartment at the hinge point - it's just moulded plastic.
You can further mod the compartment by cutting away some material so it has room to leave a compact OBD scantool plugged in (possibly with an extension cable, which is what I did).

Originally Posted by Sparkz181

I do notice in your graphic that the rpm’s inly go crazy for approx. 10 seconds. I my car the revs appear to stay the same but the fuel being used Litres/Hour is a lot.

Worth clarifying, my graph was recorded from the TCM, and the "RPM" line shown there is not actually the revs measured at the engine. The thing to know is that the various computers (e.g. Engine Control Module, Transmission Control Module, Instrument Panel Module etc.) all operate semi-independently, and they usually only see the data of the particular component they manage. So the ECM is measuring and controlling all the parameters of the engine at the engine itself, and the TCM is measuring and controlling the dual-clutch transmission, but the TCM doesn't know the actual RPM of the engine. Instead it has to infer from its own sensor suite, which in the case of RPM it gets from a sensor measuring the speed of the transmission input shaft. Now theoretically this should correspond exactly with the RPM at the engine, but in my case this sensor was faulty, and sporadically giving crazy numbers (which we see in the graph). So in those moments while the true engine revs would have been steady or climbing, the TCM was getting totally different numbers, it had no idea what was going on and getting totally confused about what gear it needed to be in.

Just wanted to clarify in case you thought my situation had the engine revs actually going crazy - in fact it was just like yours, the engine speed was steady both according to feel and visually on the tachometer, it's just that the computer (TCM) thought something different was happening. I know, it seems misleading (and it took a bit of unpacking in that thread I linked to come to an understanding - thanks to the other posters who helped me). It's especially confusing since the data stream from the TCM is labelled "RPM" and there happens to be another data stream called GISS or "Gearbox Input Speed Sensor" which it seems should be the one measuring that speed on the input shaft! But no, with the TCM for Powershift gearbox "RPM" is actually the input shaft and "GISS" is somewhere deeper in the unit (on one of the dual clutches I believe).

Thinking back on it, in fact it's interesting you mention that the fuel consumption visible on the instrument panel jumps around, while the RPM on the tachometer stays steady. My understanding is that fuel consumption is not measured directly, but is inferred from measurement of the air flow into the engine. I wonder if perhaps there is a malfunction of one of the sensors relied upon by the ECM - a starting point for investigation possibly?

[bundybear75]

If scanning for codes, make sure you do it before turning the vehicle off - the TCM looses the trouble code when the engine is switched off

[aussiblue]

I could only make an assumption that when the trans was removed and replaced that a mount inspection would have been looked at, and again when they had it back on the hoist the next time when checking the fault again.

Never assume anything especially with dealers and it easy to do a quick visual check.

[AlanM]

The increase in fuel burn does look like a DPF regen. I've had mine do that and it sends a rhythmic "thrum" through the car. But you do see the RPMs changing slightly.

[aussiblue]

Alan Howatt is heading back to the UK per https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL4vYBAzPos For how long who knows.