rekon dev5 or manual + dev3hl?

[EDXR8]

Originally Posted by neil101

Is a saloon car a street car I think not.

Neil

Well it is a fairly mild package with very good idle and drivability, many of which actually run on the road quite regularly.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by Thanatos

Like i said before, MY TIMING IS SET! However, I am not going to advance it to ridiculous proportions, just to gain a couple of kw. I have had bad batches of fuel before, as well as been in places where premium was not available. I like to have a margin of error there so i don't find myself doing damage to my engine because i can't get the ideal fuel. If it costs me a few rwkw to do this then so be it.

What a load of horse poo, keep a bottle of octane booster in the car for emergencies.
I always keep a bottle in my car, and have only had to use one in 18 months, and travel interstate regularly, and only use 98 fuels.

I'm not talking about not setting the timing at all FFS! What you seem to be saying is that you can replace your spark plugs, enabling you to run extra advance and give you more power. YES THAT WORKS! NO, IT IS NOT NECESSARY IN ORDER TO GAIN SIMILAR POWER TO A DEV3HL.

I didn't say that at all, all I did was justify why JMM use the plugs they do, and why they may allow yo uto create extra power in your car.

Perhaps i should have explained, further, i am not saying that it takes a wild cam to cause detonation. What i am saying is that we are not talking about extracting every kw out of an engine, we are talking about the 150rwkw mark, which is quite attainable without having the engine tuned to within an inch of it's life.

What?!?! I don't believe what I'm seeing.
First you advise the OP to head in the uncertain Wade/Pacemaker territory knowing he had limited mechanical knowledge, then you admit to having your timing severely retarded so as to run on regular ULP, now you feel we don't need to extract every little kw out of our engines.
Wierd logic.

I beleive that a setup like Dev3HL or similar level will not cause detonation by itself.

Of course it won't, it's very careully matched with the right headers, spark plugs, etc.
The cam by itself will.

And what exactly are you basing this on? Because i've seen NO evidence that supports this theory... (and i am aware of a LOT of cam profiles for our engines)

So you think Wade will recommend a cam which needs heavy duty valve springs, head work, higher C/R, and 4:1 gears to this chap?

I would be more than happy to, however, that setup has long been superseded. I now have almost 170rwkw...

What a surprise........

Yes, I am paying their rent, which just goes to prove my point even further. All of these companies have rent to pay (just like JMM), yet they don't feel the need to charge anywhere near as much.

Perhaps they haven't put in as much R&D. Oh, of course, that's free in your world.

The point of what i was saying is that i don't give a stuff who i'm buying things from (whether they need the money for rent is not my concern), but if i can get an equally good product for cheaper, then that's where i'm going to go.

Fine so long as it is as good.

Lmao! Where did it say my ignition wasn't timed properly? You seem to have latched onto this pathetic little snippet of information that you have made up in your own head.

By your own admission.

What i said is that you don't HAVE to advance your timing to the Nth degree in order to get power. Yes you can gain power that way, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO!

Again, flawed logic. I don't know anyone who is chasing performance who would sacrifice ignition timing for the sake of spark plugs.

Care to enlighten me, oh he who knows all???

I'm trying my hardest, you're not listening.

(Posts merged at this point).

I don't give a stuff what anyone puts in their sig. You can't tell me what i need and what i don't need.

You asked who is knocking them, I answered, now you're saying you don't care?
BTW, sure I can tell you, but you of course don't have to listen.

If he is not up to doing it himself, then he chooses to go to JMM, easy.

Who the hell are you to make the decision for him?

I don't believe I was, I am simply going over old ground with the same old clan.

My point is, that you said it has the times to back it up. It is a bloody quick car, no doubt about that. BUT i'm just saying that it is not even a pure dev5, so what relevance does it have to someone who is comparing a Dev3HL to one of the cheaper alternatives?

Why does it have to be a standard DEV5? There ute is that, the EB has been taken a little further, what's the problem?
You're nit picking just for the sake of it, like every other time this can come up.

Yes, many dynos read different, and perhaps this dyno does under-read.
However, many stock cars were pulling around the 100-110rwkw mark, which seems spot on to me.
But what is also just as likely is that the JMM dyno over-reads... How can you claim that this is 'dyno proven'??

It's no less dyno proven than your own magical car.
But again, my own car has met claims on 2 seperate dynos, and several other cars I've been involved in hve also. Including track times.

Sounds like nothing has been proven to me!

Really? I woulda never guessed.

Rick.

[neil101]

So have you ever built a performance engine or worked in a workshop?
Well I have so I do know what I'm talking about! I've been in this industry since I was 16
so don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about!

Neil

[Sox]

Thanatos -

I'm going to stop here matey, it's been fun, and if I've offended you with any of my rib poking, that's not my intent, and apologies to you (and anyone else).
It's all about fun for me.

Good luck to 'BoZZa17'.

Rick.

[stockstandard]

Originally Posted by neil101

Is a saloon car a street car I think not.

Neil

I dont get your point

A saloon cars engine bay consists of a mildly modified EA engine with cam equivlent to a 1004 (I have the cam card for a saloon car here). The engine is manages by an EMS stinger ecu ($1700 fitted and tuned). I have discussed engine configuration with two engine builders who have done the machining on many of these engines (same people I got to do my machining) and I have had a guided tour of the car. There is no reason why these engines cant run on the road.

[EDXR8]

Originally Posted by neil101

So have you ever built a performance engine or worked in a workshop?
Well I have so I do know what I'm talking about! I've been in this industry since I was 16
so don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about!

Neil

Just working in a performance workshop doesn't mean anything, some of the worst advice I have ever heard has come from so called 'professionals'. What I can tell you is stockstandards engine is IMO great for a 4L Falcon, its a very strong and flexible engine with plenty of power throughout the entire rpm range, his research has payed off with a very good combo.

[stockstandard]

Originally Posted by neil101

So have you ever built a performance engine or worked in a workshop?
Well I have so I do know what I'm talking about! I've been in this industry since I was 16
so don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about!

Neil

Well I wouldnt tell you that you dont know what you are talking about when it comes to your job, I do however disagree with some of your ideas and arguments that you have posted here today. Having said that I dont think I would take my car to your workshop any time soon_2:

BTW: I have worked in workshops before and built the engine in my sig (not the highest power I6 around but it aint to shabby).

Anyway, I think I have said more than enough as well.

[Gunns]

Originally Posted by stockstandard

I dont get your point

A saloon cars engine bay consists of a mildly modified EA engine with cam equivlent to a 1004 (I have the cam card for a saloon car here). The engine is manages by an EMS stinger ecu ($1700 fitted and tuned). I have discussed engine configuration with two engine builders who have done the machining on many of these engines (same people I got to do my machining) and I have had a guided tour of the car. There is no reason why these engines cant run on the road.

You are 100% spot on with the saloon car engines.
I have all the goodies come out of saloon car that is making 178rwkw on 3 different dynos, and finishes top 5 in most races. The only thing he wont give me is the stinger ecu ($1000 for the unit uninstalled or tuned). I want to get it to 180+ rwkw with a Wade 1521a.

Bozza for what its worth get the T5 with the dev3hl, you know manual is more fun!

[neil101]

Well thats entirely up to u were you take your car, I'm no longer in a workshop anymore I'm in spare parts now (got sick of all the bullshit in workshops)
If I have upset anyone that was not my intention I was speaking from my own experince.

Neil

[Walkinshaw]

Sox, just wondering have you pulled the DEv5 from your XH? Your sig says 142rwkw instead of 173rwkw.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by Walkinshaw

Sox, just wondering have you pulled the DEv5 from your XH? Your sig says 142rwkw instead of 173rwkw.

Have a closer look, the sig says XG.
I swapped utes with my brother, he now has my old XH, and i have his XG.

The XG is awaiting some serious plans, like another couple cylinders.......
(most certainly not a wheezer either).

Rick.

[Walkinshaw]

I may need those glasses you want to hand out....

[Sox]

Originally Posted by Walkinshaw

I may need those glasses you want to hand out....

Just call me the AFF optometrist. :

Rick.

[loxxr6]

just toying with the idea of getting some engine packages from jmm

if you guys were spending the cash would you opt for:

dev5 kit

or

dev3-hl
with a 5speed conversion?

i duno which way to go... probably leaning towards the 5speed option..

If a manual is your thing go the manual and the dev3hl. If you want to upgrade later to the dev 4 - 5 you can as you're halfway there with the bits.

I went different again and went the dev5 cam only with my non JMM extractors and got about 146rwkw

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...ustNoChipB.jpg

Otherwise if you're looking outside of JMM, maybe get some of the guys here to post their combo's and the results they got.