Online shopping v Local shopping

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yeh it's L.A.W. law........there will never be a GST.....by 1990 no child will be living in poverty......there's more chance of me becoming the full-forward for the Dogs than there is any chance of a change in the Labor party.....

yeh yeh yada yada yada.......

It wasn't them that did away with $1k GST threshold...

One thing that has been forgotten..??
From memory this was done with an agreement with U.S to buy our farming products....

[TS50]

Today Boarders Bookstores / Angus and Robinson are in administration, potentially putting up to 4000 people out of work around Australia
Main reason? Loss of sales to people buying on line
Trust me this wont be the last one to go
I am just trying to say, there is an implication to buying things online
If our economy can survive without the retail sector, great, but it has me worried

[aussiblue]

Main reason? Loss of sales to people buying on line

A reason given but I doubt it and also involved was:

a) Red Books perhaps with hindsight unwise takeover of Borders store that was competing with their own stores and spreading their customer base too thin see http://www.optuszoo.com.au/news/brea...go-bust/301944

REDgroup has also felt the strain of the debt it took on as it was taken over by private equity and prepared for a sharemarket float.

In October REDgroup unveiled a full-year loss of $43 million, which it said was mainly attributable to non-cash inventory provisions as it completed its integration of Borders and rationalisation of old ranges.

; and
b) management problems; they recently "sacked" their Borders CEO or equivliant - In november, REDgroup managing director David Fenlon resigned; but probably most significantly
b) the move to electronic books that is killing paper book sales worldwide.

eg http://www.heraldsun.com.au/lifestyl...-1225982366532

THE printed word is in the midst of a revolution. Digital books are gaining ground on their dog-eared, bookmarked counterparts and experts predict e-books could seriously challenge traditional tomes in just two years.

By 2012 three in every 10 books could be delivered digitally, according to booksellers, and publishers are fuelling the transition by adding more back-catalogue books and story types to the mix.

After a slow start, the e-book revolution is now well under way.

Last year connected e-book readers almost doubled in number to reach 6.5 million, and Gartner predicts more than 15.8 million e-readers will be in use by 2013.

Furthermore, American readers alone splurged $263 million on e-books in the first eight months of 2010, and Australian booksellers claim digital tomes now represent 2 per cent of book sales.

Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.
Related CoverageTech-savvy readers turn a new leaf
Adelaide Now, 3 days ago
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The Australian, 31 Jan 2011
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The Australian, 1 Dec 2010
Amazon e-book sales outpace hardbacks
The Australian, 20 Jul 2010
E-book sales outstrip hardcover sales
NEWS.com.au, 20 Jul 2010.End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.
A Borders spokesman says the industry had been surprised by the speed of the transition, which gained ground towards the end of the year.

"The sales spike started in September and November saw a doubling in sales again," he says.

"Digital book sales represent 2 per cent of the market right now, but ask me again in the middle of the year and it will be 5 to 10 per cent.

"In two years' time -- if e-book sales continue at this rate -- they will represent 20 to 30 per cent of the book market."

The spokesman says several factors are behind the rapid increase. They include the proliferation of e-book readers following the Australian release of the Amazon Kindle in late 2009, lower prices, portability and swift, low-hassle delivery.

"The beauty of e-book sales is the convenience," he says.

"If I finish a book at 9.30pm I don't have to get up, get dressed, get in the car and find a late-night bookstore to get a new novel. And, let's face it, the kind of stores selling books at 9.30 are not for everyone."

Harper Collins publishing director Shona Martyn says electronic books are also tempting readers back to the market through gadgets they already own.

She says many Australians are using mobile phones to screen books, whether that is "while they are on the train, waiting at the doctor's or waiting for a friend".

Martyn says the company is hoping to capture these new casual readers by offering short stories in a digital form for the first time.

Nine erotic short stories from Tobsha Learner are now available through the Apple iBooks, Amazon Kindle, Kobo and Borders stores for 99c each.

Harper Collins plans to capitalise on the tech-savvy book market in other ways too, Martyn says, including same-day releases for electronic and printed books, digitising books from its back catalogue and adding extras such as notes, pictures and even videos to e-books.

"These would be extras made specifically for release on tablets," she says. "Tablets are very pleasing to look at and the quality of the image and the sound is good. We just have to make sure whatever we put into these books really does enhance the experience."

Dymocks e-commerce general manager Michael Allara is less bullish about the potential transition from paper to digital books, but he predicts multimedia tablets are the most likely to attract converts.

"The next 12 months is really going to be about tablets," he says. "We've seen a steady rise in e-book readers but . . . they won't hit mainstream behaviour in the same way that tablets will.

"The average Australian will own a maximum of two media devices -- one of those will be a phone and one of those will be a multimedia tablet."

But Allara predicts e-book sales will take many years to reach sales of traditional books, as he says most consumers are currently just "experimenting" with the technology and using it for supplemental reading.

"Digital is also still a pretty terrible reading format for cookbooks and children's picture books," he says.

But Martyn and Borders are predicting a post-Christmas, holiday boom on e-book purchases as Australians rush to fill their new gifts.

Dick Smith lists e-book readers among the top-selling items in its stores in the lead-up to the holidays.

"We think there'll be a lot of people who received e-readers this Christmas and clearly they'll be using them this summer," Martyn says.

and note the probably had their head in the sand a bit in terms of where books sales and their business was going::

Borders store safe despite US troubles
Alex Johnson | February 15th, 2011


THE Borders store in Geelong's Westfield shopping centre is safe, despite the impending bankruptcy of the book giant's American arm.

As the corner-stone tenant in the new Westfield shopping centre, losing the book and music retailer would have been a major blow.

But a spokeswoman for Red Group Retail, which owns 27 Borders stores in Australia and New Zealand, said it has no links with the American company, Borders Group.

Several US media outlets, including the Wall Street Journal, have reported that the American company is expected to file for bankruptcy as early as today.

The move would result in the closure of about 200 of the company's 674 stores and thousands of job losses.

Analysts have linked Borders' demise with the rise of online book sales and digital E-readers, along with the company's crippling debt levels.

Related Coverage
Northern suburbs jobs push at risk

But a spokeswoman for Red Group Retail, which also owns Angus & Robertson outlets, said Borders in Australia had a bright future.

"They have no links to the business overseas at all," she said.

"At Red Group, they're definitely still investing in the Borders network.

"They're about to open a new store in Sydney."

The company had rolled out two online initiatives, including a new E-reader and on E-book store, she said.

[colinl]

I prefer to buy local, but when local shops don't or won't offer the service and product range I want then I will go online. The big retailers didn't suffer any guilty consciousness when they dumped local manufacturers for overseas ones, so I'm not about to feel sorry for them now. Most people would prefer to buy locally, it is just that the poor business models of some of the larger retailers are pushing people away.

Gerry Harvey doesn't want fair competition, he has always been happy to use his strength to kill of local competition and then control the market. He is just ****ed that people know have an alternative option.

I've bought a few things on-line now. One being a new lens for my camera. HN wanted nearly $1'700. for one. They didn't have it in stock and I had to wait two weeks for delivery. I would have been happy paying a premium if I could actually see the product i was buying or they could offer a decent level of service. I ended up buying one from an Aussie on-line store who ships from HK. The lens cost me $900. delivered to my door in 3 or 4 days.

I also bought a pool chlorinator from an on-line store in Newcastle, simply because the local pool shops didn't offer a decent range of product. I wanted a simple no fuss unit, not some programable touch pad thing. I bought a Zodic programable unit 4 years ago and it has had major electrical failures twice now, and the touch pad is falling apart. Both my local shops wanted to sell me the same product, even after me telling them I wanted something else. That's fine, the pool shops can do what they like, but these days it is easy for me to buy it somewhere that is prepared to offer me a range to select from.

In both these examples I would have to pay GST if the sale was over $1000. In both these cases it wouldn't have changed my decision. Businesses have to understand that consumers have much more choice than before. They can't sit back and try and control what people can or cannot buy. They have to excel at their advantages over on-line stores. They have to hold stock and offer excellent face to face customer service. They have to respond with quick delivery times of their own.

Most times I go to my local CD shop they tell me they don't stock that CD and if I want to order it, it will take 6 weeks to get in. What crap! I'm not going to put up with that, I can order it online and have it in a few days; or more usually now, I just buy it off iTunes and have it straight away.

The on-line market is still very small. Retailers need to lift their game if they want it to remain low. Technological change often changes the vocational landscape. You can't artificially enforce the vocational landscape to remain unchanged. Businesses just need to adapt to it and seek out ways of working with those changes.

[colinl]

Industries grow and shrink. From my observations when one is in decline, another is growing. You might for example loose a major steel making industry in a locality, but then have a growth in the tourism industry.

Perhaps there is scope for Australian manufacturers to not rely on the big retailers now. They could easily market products directly. Cutting out the middle man would lower their retail price and perhaps make them more competitive. The large retailers killed off the manufacturing industry, now they have dropped the ball they could be opening the door for a rebirth of it.

[GreenR]

Now we just need to be able to buy petrol online

[buggerlugs]

Originally Posted by plarazza

Now we just need to be able to buy petrol online

Yeah, from Saudi Arabia..........

[dags41v]

Interesting news today with Borders and Angus & Robertson going bust. For a long time now it has been cheaper to buy books overseas and have them shipped here. Recently I bought a kindle and I cant get enough of it. I can see bookshops and newspapers feeling the heat over the next couple of years.

[colinl]

It's also telling that the independent bookstores that offer good customer interaction, know their product and work on more modest profit margins are doing well despite on-line trading.

Give people a good local model of business that caters for their needs and offers good service and most of them will still buy locally. Continue offering poor product choice and poor customer service and more people will be forced to do business on-line. The big retailers should know this if they bothered to try and understand their customers. Perhaps they do, and just think that they have the power and the customer has no option. Either way, the problem is one of their making and I'm not going to feel too sorry for them.

[Paxton]

I'm in the market for a new Point and Shoot Camera. I settled on a Lumix, and proceeded to shop around. I'm cashed up, and was ready to buy at Harvey Normans, Dick Smith, David Jones, Grace Bros (Myer) and JB HiFi, but bugger me if I could get anyone to serve me - I was ready to buy then and there, and I was ignored like a used car shopper. I managed to set an alarm off looking at the camera at Myer, and all they did was turn the alarm off, not ask if I wanted any assistance. They were/are also the most expensive.

After wasting a weekend looking, I stumbled across a couple of online sites, before giving Amazon a go. I can get the same Lumix camera, which Myer have for $599, for ~$220, with free US Shipping. My Brother-in-law is in the states for work, so I'll have the camera shipped to him, and he'll bring it home for me.

So bugger ya Hardly Normals. You've lost me.

[colinl]

In the last few months I've bought a Nikon D300S, Nikon 105VR macro lens and an SB600 speedlight through topbuy. I started with the local shops, but service was just too difficult and when I did speak to the salespeople they just wanted to push what they sold. Since then I've bought a remote shutter and a lens cleaning kit on-line too. Simply because none of the shops that sell camera's in my area stocked these basic items and didn't even offer to order them. I did manage to buy a CF memory card localy, but it took a lot of hunting around before finding a shop that sold one.

[Cooper69S]

I wanted 2 polarising filters (2 sizes) for my camera lenses a while ago, so went to the local well-known-camera-chain store (where we originally bought the camera with 3 lenses and other accessories at close to rrp). They wanted twice the price I could pay online for the 2 filters. I explained that I prefer to buy locally, and will happily pay more than the online price, but can't justify paying twice the price. they were unwilling to offer any discount at all, so I bought them online. I didn't make a fuss or anything, it was really no big deal. I just thought at the time that their attitude came across as having their head in the sand regarding the fact that online stores are now a real competitor to them. As soon as I mentioned I was looking online, they pretty much shut down and weren't interested in any further discussion. I would have thought that a sale at reduced profit is better than no sale...

In trying to think why they might not want to do it, the only reason I can think of is that they're worried it might become known that they're willing to give discounts to price match online stores and suddenly all their customers are showing up with online store printouts... floodgates theory? I suppose at some stage if online shopping starts eating into their profits noticeably then they'll have to do something about it

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by colinl

In the last few months I've bought a Nikon D300S, Nikon 105VR macro lens and an SB600 speedlight through topbuy. I started with the local shops, but service was just too difficult and when I did speak to the salespeople they just wanted to push what they sold. Since then I've bought a remote shutter and a lens cleaning kit on-line too. Simply because none of the shops that sell camera's in my area stocked these basic items and didn't even offer to order them. I did manage to buy a CF memory card localy, but it took a lot of hunting around before finding a shop that sold one.

I got my CF Card in the States as well. The only one I could get was an 8 Gig Card (which went into a Canon Point and Shoot that couldn't see any more than 2 Gigs), but that's another story. It cost $22, when the local Kodak had it for ~$75. Nobody else stocked them.

As for SD cards - believe it or not, I got a couple of 8 Gig cards from Aldi. Only cost $10 each, and they work perfectly. I should have got a couple more.

Edit: Cooper69s - Officeworks match online prices. I tried that with the Lumix, but they mysteriously stopped stocking this model camera. After some sleuthing, it turns out that people found a coupon online for the camera at about half price, and some halfwit decided to match it. Head office were very unhappy about that.

Hardly Normals weren't interested in that, when I did go up and ask. My only worry about buying overseas is warranty. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

[dags41v]

Places like Harvey norman, good guys etc are setting new standards in lack of service. Was in there with the wife the other day to buy a dishwasher and couldnt get anyone to serve us, then asked at the register ..... I cant do that I will need to get you a sales person, then the "busy" salesperson wanted to go and have a break before he served us ...... it was 9.20am, so they had only been open 20 mins. We knew the model, price etc all we wanted to do was pay for it and take it home.
Its no wonder people shop online when it takes sooo much effort to force someone to sell you something.
I love shopping online, you can research what you want, get opinions (generally less biased) then make a decision and have it delivered to your door in a couple of days. Less stress and frustration.

[colinl]

The overseas stuff still has warranty, it just might not be supported by the local distributers and you might need to send offshore for the repair. To my mind, this concern can be reduced significantly if you are purchasing a quality product.

Slightly off topic, but my new SB600 speedlight had some Dick Smith batteries leak into the battery carrier. I only bought the packet of batteries around xmas time. So far they have leaked in a tv remote, vcr remote, my wireless mouse and the flash unit. I cleaned the flash unit out pretty carefully and let it sit in my air-conditioned office for a few days to dry it out. Unfortunately it is rooted. I told the local DS guys about it and they will fix it if it is a problem caused by their batteries. So at their advice I have sent it to the local authorised Nikon repairer and they will supply a written quote and cause for the failure.

[colinl]

Originally Posted by dags41v

Places like Harvey norman, good guys etc are setting new standards in lack of service. Was in there with the wife the other day to buy a dishwasher and couldnt get anyone to serve us, then asked at the register ..... I cant do that I will need to get you a sales person, then the "busy" salesperson wanted to go and have a break before he served us ...... it was 9.20am, so they had only been open 20 mins. We knew the model, price etc all we wanted to do was pay for it and take it home.
Its no wonder people shop online when it takes sooo much effort to force someone to sell you something.
I love shopping online, you can research what you want, get opinions (generally less biased) then make a decision and have it delivered to your door in a couple of days. Less stress and frustration.

That's the trouble with these big retailers. They come into an area and kill of any competition with at best questionable, and in some cases illegal predatory business practices. Once the opposition has gone then they sit back and dictate what you can buy, while offering the bare minimum of customer service. Harvey Norman made a big song and dance about equality of doing business and wanting GST applied to on-line sales. He doesn't want equality, he has fought tooth and nail to push any advantage he could over the years, including killing off Australian manufacturing and commercial opposition. He is just now ****ed that he isn't the strong guy in the school yard anymore and others now have more power of choice.

[Paxton]

How sustainable is this business model in this day and age?

Harvey is in for a rude shock if he doesn't change the way they sell, because more and more people are going to vote with their Keyboards, and shop online. I can't see myself buying anything from them again in the future.

[RSgerry]

Originally Posted by dags41v

Interesting news today with Borders and Angus & Robertson going bust. For a long time now it has been cheaper to buy books overseas and have them shipped here. Recently I bought a kindle and I cant get enough of it. I can see bookshops and newspapers feeling the heat over the next couple of years.

there were a couple of other factors at play here. local writers hassled the rudd govt to retain a hefty tariff on books to stop the stores here selling cheap imports. the idea was that by keeping the prices artificially high, the local writers and associated hangers-on will still earn a crust. they forget about the internet.,..

secondly, i believe borders / A&R were hocked up to their eyeballs and with teh rising cost of funds and huge levels of stock on hand, they just couldnt shift the stuff fast enough to pay for the refinanced loans.

[ebxr8240]

Quote ....
Yep !!!


secondly, i believe borders / A&R were hocked up to their eyeballs and with teh rising cost of funds and huge levels of stock on hand, they just couldnt shift the stuff fast enough to pay for the refinanced loans.


Exactly...

[2011G6E]

I check online first for smaller stuff...bugger the "local guy" who rips you off with ludicrous prices for stuff. A my late father used to say when it came to purchases: "My loyalty is my hip pocket".

Couple of examples: I wanted to buy Red Dead Redemption for the XBox 360...in all the shops like JB HiFi, Hardley Normal, etc, it was around or just over $100. I bought it online from a shop in Melbourne for just under $40, postage included, from an independant business with an Ebay store.
A few years back, I wanted a set of hard leather saddlebags for the cruiser I had at the time, a Suzuki Volusia, and the cheapest pair could find in Australia were floppy leather ones with non-weather-proof tops for $290. The hard leather ones like I wanted started at over $400. I ended up buying a set from a place in California called CruiserCustomising for $235, landed at my door...$190 for the bags, $45 postage as it was a large and heavy package.

I've bought stuff for four wheel drives, motorbikes, and computers online for years. It's especially noticeable with computr stuff, especially memory. I've bought 8gb SD cards and larger for less than $10 from Hong Kong. RAM is also available at less than half the cost you buy it here. Ebay is your friend.

If it's a similar item (or usually the exact same item) and I can buy it cheaper online, I will...local stores won't get a look in.

So go on and put GST on all online purchases...they'll still be heaps cheaper.

[XWGT]

I think everyone also forgets the transport companies are booming here.

I know we have had online purchases delivered to our rural home at least 10 times in the last 4 months.

I can guarantee they wouldnt have been here 10 times in 10 years prior.....

Excluding electronic books, almost everything relies on logistics in some part of the process.

[PHANTMXR6]

For everyday items like groceries etc, I stick with the local Coles as opposed to the local independant store.

The local store has faster service, but I'm damned if I'll pay an extra dollar or 2 for every item I buy to cover it.

For electrical items and car/boat parts I normally check ebay first then Google. Neither of the local Betta Electrical or Retravision stores generally come close to what i can buy it for, delivered as well, online.

I would love to support the local businesses but if they can't be competitive then my money will always go elsewhere.

I live in a town with less than 7000 people and our prices are just highway robbery at times. And we aren't that isolated either.