Ambitious China

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by FTE217

far out, with all due respect to Polyal and T3 might I add, please stand on the other line.

Wow, if every time someone criticises this mega botched diplomacy disaster they are going to be asked "which side they are on" or "stand on the right side of the line", there is going to be a lot of questioning on a lot of loyalty. It sounds like you are upset with past government's policies, which has been taken advantage of by a lot of foreign entities.

So which side is Barnesy on? I guess no Cold Chisel for some of you for Christmas then.

https://www.news.com.au/national/pol...dc193daf19520c

For the record, I sincerely hope I'm wrong. I hope this tact will get us the outcome we are after (which I'm not sure what it is at this stage). I hope we return to a bigger surplus than originally, so we can continue to fund our very fortunate and "lucky" lifestyle.

For now, sit back and enjoy the **** show, its about to get heavy.

[Pis-ton broke]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I don't think we will ever be able to make something cheaper than China.

We may be able to make it to a higher specification, or a finer tolerance, or something unique to our lands but I don't think it would ever be cheaper.

Depending on what list you look at - be in income, buying power etc.

Australia is on average anywhere between USD $51k and $54k pa.

China is on average anywhere between USD $11k and $17k pa.

I bet they don't have to abide by the same laws and standards we give our workers etc.

When you have workers willing to earn 1/5 to 1/3 of our wage, who are happy to work 14 hours a day with a 30 minute break 7 days a week while living on the site of the facility sleeping 10 to a room we have no chance to compete with that.

It saddens me that we can ship raw materials there, they can then ship back a finished product and still sell it for much much less than we could ever possibly make it here.

i don,t think your getting the point mate, the way things are headed, its come down to sovereignty.

[zipping]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

So which side is Barnesy on? I guess no Cold Chisel for some of you for Christmas then.

Why would anyone give any weight to Barnes opinion?

It was evident as far back as the late 70s that Barnsey was not the intellect in that band. Musicians tend not to be especially well endowed when it comes to critical thinking so they follow the herd quite easily.Performing Artists spend their entire lives driven by an intense desire to do what other people will "Like". That's the only standard a Performing Artist knows - either the audience claps, or it boos, and they will do anything to stand on the stage and bask in that applause.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by zipping

Why would anyone give any weight to Barnes opinion?

It was evident as far back as the late 70s that Barnsey was not the intellect in that band. Musicians tend not to be especially well endowed when it comes to critical thinking so they follow the herd quite easily.Performing Artists spend their entire lives driven by an intense desire to do what other people will "Like". That's the only standard a Performing Artist knows - either the audience claps, or it boos, and they will do anything to stand on the stage and bask in that applause.

They're not all like that. What about the group that has a lead guitarist who is an astrophysicist, a drummer who has a BSc in biology a lead singer with an Arts diploma and a bass player with an Honours degree in Electronics.

Sorry off topic but I couldn't let that one slide

[Danny]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

They're not all like that. What about the group that has a lead guitarist who is an astrophysicist, a drummer who has a BSc in biology a lead singer with an Arts diploma and a bass player with an Honours degree in Electronics.

Is this the real life? Or is this just fantasy?

[superyob]

So what group is it Gas??? Is it some obscure British band... Oh, I just got the previous post...

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

They're not all like that. What about the group that has a lead guitarist who is an astrophysicist, a drummer who has a BSc in biology a lead singer with an Arts diploma and a bass player with an Honours degree in Electronics.

Sorry off topic but I couldn't let that one slide

You just could have said Red Symons; that is one very intelligent person!

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Officemanager

Australia can ween itself from Chinese products over time; it is about time we wake up to our selves and look elsewhere to trade or bring back businesses to Australia, I would have thought Covid19 would have brought home our own short comings.
We don't really need China as there is other potential markets to explore.

if the world is getting pizzed at China, the best that we can collectively do is stop buying their rubbish, it will cripple them financially and bring them to their knees - no need for military intervention

We (the West) have assisted in creating this monster

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

They're not all like that. What about the group that has a lead guitarist who is an astrophysicist, a drummer who has a BSc in biology a lead singer with an Arts diploma and a bass player with an Honours degree in Electronics.

Sorry off topic but I couldn't let that one slide

SkyHooks, add to that the lead singer was a traded builder

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by FTE217

far out, with all due respect to Polyal and T3 might I add, please stand on the other line.

Don't you think we have opened up enough for them after all these years.
Sure we have gained $$$$'s and we sold out to them long ago (I won't bring in my political pov) but Trade alliances is about having a win win and for as long as I've noticed we have gained trading $$$'s but not much else.
Infact our soul has been squandered in many ways for the sake of the buck to this tyrant who when not getting their way they try to turn the tables making you the bad guy ! and anti chinese, ofcourse they will.
We have opened the doors to investing here not just exports.
We educate their kids.
Its not just about the money its that we opened up and welcomed them and to be treated as such after all these years of keeping our mouths shut due to business's sake and suck it up more you have got to be kidding yourselves.
We all know were being played like doh.
Stop bringing in Trumpism's and alike and take things down like a SM show.
I'd sooner our leader say something than sitting back delegating to one of his hand maidens - oh thats what you think is a better stratergy.
That frigging stupid insta pic depicted us as crimes, we have alot more honour than that than letting it through to the keeper after all these years of keeping the peace despite our country being eaten up in the mean time.
Just ask all those citizens like ourselves in the countries the CCP have bought out far more than ours how they feel in the big picture and whats to become of their next few gens.

Sorry mate, we agree on cars but this one I will have to agree to disagree.

Can you (and others) not see that a simple tweet is making Australians have a go at each other?

Not once did I say I was happy with what they did, but blind freddy can see that it was nothing more than a poo-stirring exercise. Its wrong on all levels and ScoMo did mostly the right thing but the way it was done was too much.

Sorry to say fellas, but when you hold such a position you do have to watch your tongue (owning your own business is similar but not the same).

Australia, and Australians, sucked from the China tit for years and still do. So you happy to cut those funds right now and take a stance?

I believe you dont have to pick a side, and to say pick a line is highly offensive, thats how **** starts to get worse when everything is made black and white, right and wrong; most you blokes should be old enough to know that all depends on your perspective and culture.

So, feel free to get on your high horse but you will fall harder. We dont have to bend our values and morals to have a working relationship. The ledger will not always be 50/50, we are not economically equal anyway so good luck with that.

Funny how we have a spat with USA/Trump and its a misunderstanding, do the same with China and we should shut the gates and release the hounds.

They over stepped the line, and while it was an officials tweet I wonder how far up the tree it was approved (you would suspect all the way but would Xi really be checking on tweets..)

All this over a fake picture, what happens when it gets real?

[Trevor 57]

Great to see other countries are promoting the purchasing of Australian wine - a bit of a 'stick it up your ****' to China

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Great to see other countries are promoting the purchasing of Australian wine - a bit of a 'stick it up your ****' to China

I note a couple of also weighed in but not directly attacked, thats how diplomacy works and again hopefully behind the scenes allies work together.

China will come out of this worse regardless of their current economic decision. As noted, we are going to be the meat in the sandwich for a while but we made that bed.

How many China detractors here made some coin off property over the past 15-20 years? Well that was also bumped up by investment and growth via China, so hard to take the high ground when reaping the benefits.

Apparently there is a consulate meeting today, thats going to be an interesting conference afterwards.

[Polyal]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-...china/12938540

Cant say this helps our cause either....

So, given we went to Afganastan to aid the "Allies...US...", where are they now?

Granted America is in a small domestic pickle at the moment but no comment from them?

Or did this little gem make them a bit gun shy?

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fede...23-p56gzz.html

[superyob]

Originally Posted by Polyal

S

I believe you dont have to pick a side,

This is why Australia is currently in a state of stagnant moral/cultural and economic malaise. Too many have not bothered to 'pick a side' to protect Australia's best interests and let whatever happens rule their lives. She'll be right mate; until there's a gun (metaphoric or real) at the back of your head...

[wodahs]

yep thats it yob
so you should pick Polyal's side !
other wise your just part the problem too
and if you not prepared to then why sould some on stand with you opinions
quiet a few posts have had things worth standing by , but in their fullness not worth standing by , but thats the line stand by it all and youll like it with out any disagreement as it has to be fully this way !
theres usually more than one way to climb a hill what makes one way more correct than another , just ciz some one said so

so fraqkit lets jut get the missles out already an finish this once anf for all , thime to go whole hog and just stand up and start the next war

[T3rminator]

"Pick a side"....and booom... just like that, the sheeps jump into the trap.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-...istan/12939734

They know which buttons to push now, and they'll keep pushing it. Some of the previous cartoons from this "artist" is extremely provocative, so time to grow a thicker skin.

Getting into a disinformation war with China and Russia is not going to end well. It will have changed you before you know it.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by wodahs

yep thats it yob
so you should pick Polyal's side !
other wise your just part the problem too
and if you not prepared to then why sould some on stand with you opinions
quiet a few posts have had things worth standing by , but in their fullness not worth standing by , but thats the line stand by it all and youll like it with out any disagreement as it has to be fully this way !
theres usually more than one way to climb a hill what makes one way more correct than another , just ciz some one said so

so fraqkit lets jut get the missles out already an finish this once anf for all , thime to go whole hog and just stand up and start the next war

You having a stroke wodahs??? English please...

[wodahs]

if you dont understand yob maybe you should re read it till you do as you seen to think your inteligenge is high enough to solve the Aust China relations

[Peter B - CV8]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

"Pick a side"....and booom... just like that, the sheeps jump into the trap.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-...istan/12939734

They know which buttons to push now, and they'll keep pushing it. Some of the previous cartoons from this "artist" is extremely provocative, so time to grow a thicker skin.

Getting into a disinformation war with China and Russia is not going to end well. It will have changed you before you know it.

I don't understand why people are calling that picture a cartoon. To me, a cartoon is a hand drawn representation - which by default is obviously not real. The doctored picture that was used was deliberately intended to give the wrong impression ie of being 100% accurate.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by wodahs

if you dont understand yob maybe you should re read it till you do as you seen to think your inteligenge is high enough to solve the Aust China relations

Yep... still not a clue wodahs. I actually have no idea what you are on about...

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Peter B - CV8

I don't understand why people are calling that picture a cartoon. To me, a cartoon is a hand drawn representation - which by default is obviously not real. The doctored picture that was used was deliberately intended to give the wrong impression ie of being 100% accurate.

Agree its not a cartoon, maybe call it a meme, but when I saw it I thought "gee, that's a bit rude" but not for a moment did I think it was real. I guess that is why I thought it was an over reaction initially. I can see how people that thought it was real would get outraged.

But the outrage in front of cameras has consequences. It draws people to the story. And the story is not great. There is also stuff on twatter now going into detail of how the meme emerged and where the story was sourced from. I wish I hadn't read it. And for that reason I'm going on a self imposed social media ban.....sometimes its better not to know.
Interesting twatter has refused to take down the tweet.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Interesting twatter has refused to take down the tweet.

Very, they take down ISIS and put flags on Trump posts but leave that?

[FTE217]

Polyal, I had type a long repsonse BUT in the end I thought no point.....

As for tweet/meme/child like copy/cartoon, its a matter of opinion the point is to some its depicting a ADF soldier as presented.
Are you a enlisted or past Aussie digger ? how do some of them feel.
Point is its also our coat of arms being defamed, I wonder how the CCP would feel ont he other foot and reaction let alone any other countries coat of arms.
People carry on about IP, they are renowed copiers as we know - wonder how they would react someone here doing the same re Tianamen Square again for it is old now/the countless people kicked out of their homes for the sake of sky risers/the properganda in their media/how we've seen people treated during the covid outbreak/the doctor who exposed it to the world now RIP/you can go on and on but some here say tred lightly the big bad wolf is going to dump us and bloody ruskies lol.....
I can't believe CCP closing shop on us 100%, they need our minerals full stop, other countries will not be able to fill it entire needs for starters.
Oh, as much as i luv some of our own Aussie entertainers ol Jimmy I'll pass, Red yes a good mention he is a intelligent person as would some others no doubt about it.
You can't suck on the tit forever as we know, we can still Trade not cut off completely but you need to sew new roots !

edit, forgot to add, here here bravo.
"Tensions are set to rise further in the coming days as the Morrison government and Labor finalise an agreement on new laws giving it the power to scrap agreements struck by states, local councils and universities with foreign governments.
The laws, which will pass before the end of the week, will probably allow the federal government to tear up Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews' Belt and Road agreement with the Chinese government."

and why should they react to the above ? we can't do similar in the CCP.
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fede...01-p56jmi.html

and thats another point re the above, our Uni's.
They reacted towards our own (a student standing up to them due to their investment in our own Unis ffs, sure they can have a say but they shouldn't be able to "gag" one of our citizens and the Uni honchos also are guilty of the towing the line protecting the funding ffs and suspended him) demonstrating against them in that Brisbane Uni.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Polyal, I had type a long repsonse BUT in the end I thought no point.....

As for tweet/meme/child like copy/cartoon, its a matter of opinion the point is to some its depicting a ADF soldier as presented.
Are you a enlisted or past Aussie digger ? how do some of them feel.
Point is its also our coat of arms being defamed, I wonder how the CCP would feel ont he other foot and reaction let alone any other countries coat of arms.
People carry on about IP, they are renowed copiers as we know - wonder how they would react someone here doing the same re Tianamen Square again for it is old now/the countless people kicked out of their homes for the sake of sky risers/the properganda in their media/how we've seen people treated during the covid outbreak/the doctor who exposed it to the world now RIP/you can go on and on but some here say tred lightly the big bad wolf is going to dump us and bloody ruskies lol.....
I can't believe CCP closing shop on us 100%, they need our minerals full stop, other countries will not be able to fill it entire needs for starters.
Oh, as much as i luv some of our own Aussie entertainers ol Jimmy I'll pass, Red yes a good mention he is a intelligent person as would some others no doubt about it.
You can't suck on the tit forever as we know, we can still Trade not cut off completely but you need to sew new roots !

edit, forgot to add, here here bravo.
"Tensions are set to rise further in the coming days as the Morrison government and Labor finalise an agreement on new laws giving it the power to scrap agreements struck by states, local councils and universities with foreign governments.
The laws, which will pass before the end of the week, will probably allow the federal government to tear up Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews' Belt and Road agreement with the Chinese government."

and why should they react to the above ? we can't do similar in the CCP.
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fede...01-p56jmi.html

and thats another point re the above, our Uni's.
They reacted towards our own (a student standing up to them due to their investment in our own Unis ffs, sure they can have a say but they shouldn't be able to "gag" one of our citizens and the Uni honchos also are guilty of the towing the line protecting the funding ffs and suspended him) demonstrating against them in that Brisbane Uni.

That was the short version?

There is an underlying issue on our side, and thats greed.

Uni's got to big for their boots and saw the $$$

I am not against the Feds being able to slap states, states shouldnt have that much freedom.

Diversification is a long held business plan for any successful entity...so..no one can cry foul when China start pulling stumps, it was never going to last forever at that rate if we want to have our say.

China has a long way to go in order to become a responsible global player, whether they want to or not is another question that I cant answer but we need to be prepared for the consequences if we want to be the ones to slap them. We havent done anything aggressive yet and look at the situation. Hold on fellas.

You cant throw grenades over some words and a picture. Some talk a big game but dont quite grasp what that means for Australia.

We have seen already that NZ (meh but thanks), France (not bad) and Taiwan (they will take anything right now) have commented....

Where is the UK and the US!

[Bossxr8]

Imagine how much the CCP stooges would flip out if we posted this on twitter. They spent the last 3 decades denying it even happened.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Imagine how much the CCP stooges would flip out if we posted this on twitter. They spent the last 3 decades denying it even happened.

image

Feel free to tag old mate

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Imagine how much the CCP stooges would flip out if we posted this on twitter. They spent the last 3 decades denying it even happened.

image

Probably wouldnt bother them, twitter is banned in China.

But they do have Sina Weibo and WeChat if you feel inclined to post

[five 7]

Heres a little light reading, "Unrestricted Warfare" by two PLA Colonels Qiao Liang and Wang Xiangsui by PLA Litrerature and Arts publishing house, the link is not the whole book but you can take this Quote by Qiao, "the first rule of unrestricted warfare is that there are no rules, nothing is forbidden" https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr9...91lUHDr6LPuFg-

[FTE217]

More will come in time.....
https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/no...26-p56i8y.html

UK is in trouble due to covid as quoted here and known before but I expect more diplomats/or maybe No10 sooner or later issue a statement.
https://thediplomat.com/2020/11/seni...le-with-china/

CCP will never be considered a global responsible player, a leopard can't change its spots.
Our slaps won't be huge in the big picture but we need to make a stand we are not to be treated like sweeping crumbs under the carpet.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by FTE217

More will come in time.....
https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/no...26-p56i8y.html

UK is in trouble due to covid as quoted here and known before but I expect more diplomats/or maybe No10 sooner or later issue a statement.
https://thediplomat.com/2020/11/seni...le-with-china/

CCP will never be considered a global responsible player, a leopard can't change its spots.
Our slaps won't be huge in the big picture but we need to make a stand we are not to be treated like sweeping crumbs under the carpet.

Saw that but nothing about the image yet.

Might have to put the track car purchase on hold and see what happens!