Holden closure

[GK]

Originally Posted by cheap

We have the ALP section who's mission is to impose unionism on everyone, the Greens who's mission is to stop all development and the Coalition can't change things because they're being stopped at every turn by the other two.

Starting up a company would probably be easier in Syria!

Both sides, by constantly dismantling tariff barriers and instituting FTAs with countries all around us, have killed off any real chance the industry had.

I agree with your comments about Syria! I can imagine there's a huge market for loading shell casings!

GK

[munners]

This is an interesting article.

If nothing else, it shows how good Holden's marketing department is.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/busin...-1226780776266

A company that wraps itself in the national standard has long been an importer of generic General Motors vehicles made mainly in Korea. None of them - not one among Barina Spark, Barina, Malibu, Captiva, Colorado - are within cooee of the best in their respective classes.
There's not one Carsguide could confidently place among the first five choices. Not even the better variants of the Cruze, with its expert work of Holden engineers, could any longer be counted among the podium finisher in the small car class.

The contrast to Ford, which in May called time on the Falcon and Territory, is marked. Ford has a portfolio of world class imported product which will expand over 2014.
It must be said that Ford has far better managed the diminishing expectations around its locally made products. There seems no sense of residual bitterness beyond those whose livelihoods are being directly affected.

Munners

[Dmarc]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

After Toyota rolls up their swag, Australia will be the only continent on earth (except Antarctica of course) not manufacturing cars.
Soon, the only continent not refining their own oil..
The only continent without their own airline...
AND the only continent that don't even make their own socks & undies.....

Welcome to Keatings banana republic!

[Vormund]

Originally Posted by Dmarc

Welcome to Keatings banana republic!

Might as well put the quote out then.....

Originally Posted by Paul Keating

If this Government cannot get the adjustment, get manufacturing going again, and keep moderate wage outcomes and a sensible economic policy, then Australia is basically done for. We will end up being a third rate economy... a banana republic.

• Speaking to John Laws on Radio 2UE, May 14, 1986.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by johnydep

Either I'm older than you, or they're not teaching History anymore.

Holden almost shut the doors in the late 80's. The then Federal Government introduced the Button plan and other changes which helped persuade the car industry to model share and export - Holden-Toyota, Ford-Nissan.

The plan worked, but the industry got lazy and stopped their progress.

If you look back further, the writing has been on the wall since the late 70's when Chrysler could not compete even with the help from Mitsubishi.

Some times we need to face the hard facts - Australia can not produce a profitable car industry. We're better off looking at businesses we are good at and chase those.

What's happening now reminds me of England and their once strong coal industry. The had to shut it down, with many a doomsayer, now look at England - strong in the service and finance industry.

What happened in the 80's was a completely different set of circumstances to what is happening now. We are now in an ongoing global financial crisis which for the last 5 years govt's have tried to cover up and fix with more debt hoping it would go away... We have a property bubble which over the last decade has spiralled out of control, the cost of living and doing business is completely out of control, confidence is at an all time low and businesses are folding left right and centre. Over the last few years we have had a mass exodus of companies announcing and/or packing up and leaving Australia... Ford, Holden... Toyota to follow... Qantas struggling - all major icons that have survived here for decades are suddenly finding it impossible to do business here.. Even food companies are getting the hell out of here..http://www.smh.com.au/business/kello...212-2z9r8.html.
With manufacturing just about dead, mining with a limited lifespan and just about everything else sold out, what the hell are we going to be doing here in 20 years time? Making lattes?
Sure, call me a pessimist or whatever you like, but I cannot see ANYTHING positive in this whole mess. All the evidence points to dark, dark days ahead.

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by news.com.au

MAKE no mistake, the bland corporatese in which Holden announced the end of its Australian car building story tells only half the story.
Holden are finished not only as a carmaker but as a brand.
Stating that you will "transition to a national sales company" works only if you have something worth selling.
Holden don't.

A company that wraps itself in the national standard has long been an importer of generic General Motors vehicles made mainly in Korea. None of them - not one among Barina Spark, Barina, Malibu, Captiva, Colorado - are within cooee of the best in their respective classes.
There's not one Carsguide could confidently place among the first five choices. Not even the better variants of the Cruze, with its expert work of Holden engineers, could any longer be counted among the podium finisher in the small car class.

The contrast to Ford, which in May called time on the Falcon and Territory, is marked. Ford has a portfolio of world class imported product which will expand over 2014.
It must be said that Ford has far better managed the diminishing expectations around its locally made products. There seems no sense of residual bitterness beyond those whose livelihoods are being directly affected.

Holden has protracted and at times hysterically overplayed its death scene in way which has divided and embittered the buying public. Apart from the brand's glaring dearth of quality, who now will be well-disposed toward this "Aussie" car company?
news.com.au

Hear hear!

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by stevz

What happened in the 80's was a completely different set of circumstances to what is happening now. We are now in an ongoing global financial crisis which for the last 5 years govt's have tried to cover up and fix with more debt hoping it would go away... We have a property bubble which over the last decade has spiralled out of control, the cost of living and doing business is completely out of control, confidence is at an all time low and businesses are folding left right and centre. Over the last few years we have had a mass exodus of companies announcing and/or packing up and leaving Australia... Ford, Holden... Toyota to follow... Qantas struggling - all major icons that have survived here for decades are suddenly finding it impossible to do business here.. Even food companies are getting the hell out of here..http://www.smh.com.au/business/kello...212-2z9r8.html.
With manufacturing just about dead, mining with a limited lifespan and just about everything else sold out, what the hell are we going to be doing here in 20 years time? Making lattes?
Sure, call me a pessimist or whatever you like, but I cannot see ANYTHING positive in this whole mess. All the evidence points to dark, dark days ahead.

Yep, and its not even 2016/17 yet! Im seeing closed business's everywhere in Melbourne....Its just too bloody hard!

[csv8]

However, while browsing is one thing, actually assembling the business case to import successfully is another. Of course, you only start calculating the numbers if the model you want is available in right-hand drive, something Holden has fallen foul of previously.

The General Motors brand line-up consists of:

Chevrolet – which Holden is most closely aligned with
Buick – a premium version of Chevrolet, if you like, that is popular in China
Truck and SUV maker GMC
Luxury brand Cadillac, which almost came here in 2009
European subsidiary Opel (Vauxhall in the UK) – which did come here briefly in 2012/13
http://yahoo.carsales.com.au/news/20...T0yMCZObmU9MjA

[4.0i_SiX]

Originally Posted by munners

This is an interesting article.

If nothing else, it shows how good Holden's marketing department is.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/busin...-1226780776266



Munners

Finally someone reporting the truth

[EDManual]

and all the while we are "using less electricity, saving electricity", however it is only becuase of industry shutting down. The same fixed costs will stay and the population has to pay for it instead of industry. Everything like that will continue to rise.
Australia is a basket case. A disaster, Gotta get out of here! But to where, the whole world is!

[PlukaDuck]

Originally Posted by EF_6

Yep, and its not even 2016/17 yet! Im seeing closed business's everywhere in Melbourne....Its just too bloody hard!

Yep. The PARTY,S OVER FOLKS
Australia down the toilet 400 million debt
Highest income tax in the western world
2nd highest credit card debt per head of population
in the world
More single mothers with 2 or more kids getting 700 + a week handouts from the government
Longest working hours in the western world.
And now 300,000 a year intake of 457 and 456 visa workers to take our jobs.

Bring back PAULINE HANSON.
At least she had balls and could run her fish and chip shop better than any of these Government academic smucks
who 80% of the population voted in to government
Australians have got a lot to answer for.
Bring back the old days when we all all all nade ourselves herd.
And men where men who didn't get waxes and wear makeup
like they do today.

[fte50]

And add a couple of nukes with the minimum chips

[stevz]

Former Victorian premier Steve Bracks says Holden could have been saved...
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news...212-2z75e.html

What a bloody HYPOCRITE

This is the same person who in 2008 recommended that tariffs be cut...
http://www.smh.com.au/business/car-j...0815-3vyw.html

[b0son]

Originally Posted by stevz

Former Victorian premier Steve Bracks says Holden could have been saved...

They still can. They collect more than enough in speed camera revenue.

[mik]

They could ............... but they won't. ........... even while both major parties cry crocodile tears and crap on about car makers not having the right product , or not being efficient enough, the deal was done with UN years ago, our manufacturing is the sacrificial lamb................. the truth is they(our pollies) don't want australian manufacturing to kick on.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

http://www.victa.com/au/support-centre/faqs/

Victa begs to differ.

Let me clarify. Victa is a US owned company, using mostly Chinese, US and Japanese sourced parts that are assembled in Australia.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Profoundly sad news. The new VF looks like a good bit of kit and I have been warming up to the idea of a new HSV Senator or HSV GTS next year, (I have been keeping that pretty quiet till now), but can't see any point in writing yet another big cheque and buying a pending orphan now.

As a Kiwi over the last 15 years I've bought 7 brand new Austrlaian cars, most have been very good, quite why Australians seem to by and large have abandoned buying their own cars is something I struggle to come to terms with to be honest.

My BF2 Typhoon and my current SC GT-P especially stand out as an exceptionally good bit of kit. I am very fortunate to also own a top of the line Euro so I know how well the FPV cars stack up on an international comparitive level, not from a technology perspective granted, but they do the core functions of performacne, handling and braking very, very well for the money.

Quite why Australians thought their own cars arn't up to scratch and showed such a low level of loyalty, why the unions didn't take a more pragmatic approach, why your Govt entered into such a blatantly one sided so called "free" trade agreement with Thailand, why the Govt both at a Federal level and state level didn't encourange a more Australain made vehicle buying policy, I find difficult to figure but when the music finally stops all Australians and Kiwi's will have lost something very special and unique to their culture that goes back over 50 years and we will all be so much poorer for it.

How did it all go so terribly wrong

There's a simple answer to your querys rodge...MEDIA. They have been bagging and ripping ford products off for many years, despite being best in class and or simply great cars!

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

See now thats the outlook of someone that obviously hasn't experienced the right imports...

The local heroes, ie falcon and commodore, are awesome but theyre dinosaurs, fossils of a marketplace thats moved on.

Name one import ( that hopefully looks as sexy as the G6eT) that has the raw thrill factor of the G6eT and yet is extremely comfy with adequate tech. Cruises well with lots of room!......for the same price....in Australia.

It's seems to me you have the typical attitude of uneducated Australia who's been brain washed into buying cars there told to buy.

Small eg: I got in a fully optioned euro today.....nice leather seats.....till I looked at the back of the seats, which were hard plastic from top to bottom. That's just stupid for tall people in smallish cars. You won't find that logic in Australian cars thats fore sure.

[1TUFFUTE]

Not to mention names cough cough (gadgetman) cough......but so much for the clowns who refused to believe Holden would announce their descissions before Christmas.
2017 they say.....wonder how all their wind down will go.....it's been every messy so far, and it's just started.

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Not to mention names cough cough (gadgetman) cough......but so much for the clowns who refused to believe Holden would announce their descissions before Christmas.
2017 they say.....wonder how all their wind down will go.....it's been every messy so far, and it's just started.

Bookmark this: they will be gone way before 2017. They have said that manufacturing will cease BY 2017. That's their absolute latest deadline. Can't see them lasting that long.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by stevz

What happened in the 80's was a completely different set of circumstances to what is happening now. We are now in an ongoing global financial crisis which for the last 5 years govt's have tried to cover up and fix with more debt hoping it would go away... We have a property bubble which over the last decade has spiralled out of control, the cost of living and doing business is completely out of control, confidence is at an all time low and businesses are folding left right and centre. Over the last few years we have had a mass exodus of companies announcing and/or packing up and leaving Australia... Ford, Holden... Toyota to follow... Qantas struggling - all major icons that have survived here for decades are suddenly finding it impossible to do business here.. Even food companies are getting the hell out of here..http://www.smh.com.au/business/kello...212-2z9r8.html.
With manufacturing just about dead, mining with a limited lifespan and just about everything else sold out, what the hell are we going to be doing here in 20 years time? Making lattes?
Sure, call me a pessimist or whatever you like, but I cannot see ANYTHING positive in this whole mess. All the evidence points to dark, dark days ahead.

I'm guessing that you missed the period from the late 80's to early 90's & the "recession that Australia had to have" (look it up).

• October 1987 international Stock Market Slump saw markets crash around the world.

• Global share prices fell an average of 25%, but Australia saw a 40% decline.

• 17 of the 18 major OECD economies experienced a recession in the early 90's.

• Black Monday of October 1987, a stock collapse of unprecedented size caused the Dow Jones Industrial Average to fall by 22.6%.

• 1989 inflation increased to 5.1% and economic growth slowed.

• financial institutions failed around Australia, including the State Bank of Victoria, the State Bank of South Australia, the Teachers Credit Union of Western Australia, the Pyramid Building Society as well as several merchant banks, a mortgage trust, and a friendly society.

• Interest rates Jan 1990 17.00 to 17.50

• The 1990 Gulf War, causing spike in the price of oil.

• The collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991

• By 1992 unemployment had reached 11 per cent, the highest level in Australia since the Great Depression of the 1930s

Every decade or generation brings it's a different set of difficulties to overcome. We'll always get through, however, with good planning and strategies we can get through faster and in better shape.

[ryeman]

It seems from comments here, that nobody read that other brand of newspaper.
Could it be that ALL the facts don't support opinions which are set in concrete.
Abbott is receiving all the anti union assistance he needs from the 70% brand newspaper. There's a print war going on which you won't be aware of if you don't read 'the commie daily' (am I right?).
Don't be prejudiced by falling for one side, unless you don't want to hear about things that don't fit the 'story'.
V interesting article on the 2012 decision re the VIP fleet which one paper 'claims' Holden didn't bother with a tender.
The 'other' paper says 'not true at all'.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by cheap

Debt is not good, having lots of debt is bad, but since you claim it is only a percentage of GDP, here's a suggestion:

1) The Coalition draws a line and "balances the budget" (in accounting terms it is that simple)
2) As for the 300-500 Billion debt, just pay off the interest
3) Eventually the ALP will get back in power - hand them a balanced budget but with Billions in debt

Would that work for you?

Sustainable debt is fine, if the LNP were really that **** about debt they wouldn't have come in and borrowed more money.

What I do find interesting is that the shutdown will cost the Australian taxpayer the same as if they had have just kept them going. The only difference is people will be losing their jobs.

If anything this is were the LNP can show me how good of a government they can be. They now need to get a value added industry to get people back into jobs. They even have a case study they can work off (Newcastle) were unemployment ended up lower then the state average and GDP was higher then the state average. If they can do that then they can show me they're not another bunch of useless politicians voted in cause they were less liked then the other lot of useless politicians.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by ryeman

It seems from comments here, that nobody read that other brand of newspaper.
Could it be that ALL the facts don't support opinions which are set in concrete.
Abbott is receiving all the anti union assistance he needs from the 70% brand newspaper. There's a print war going on which you won't be aware of if you don't read 'the commie daily' (am I right?).
Don't be prejudiced by falling for one side, unless you don't want to hear about things that don't fit the 'story'.
V interesting article on the 2012 decision re the VIP fleet which one paper 'claims' Holden didn't bother with a tender.
The 'other' paper says 'not true at all'.

Oh no another media conspiracy theory.

I guess there are people out there that seriously think union work practices, CO2 tax and host of other factors (all of which Abbott didn't introduce nor can he presently do anything about), that these factors didn't contribute to the GMH mess?

[superyob]

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

Yep. The PARTY,S OVER FOLKS
Australia down the toilet 400 million debt
Highest income tax in the western world
2nd highest credit card debt per head of population
in the world
More single mothers with 2 or more kids getting 700 + a week handouts from the government
Longest working hours in the western world.
And now 300,000 a year intake of 457 and 456 visa workers to take our jobs.

Bring back PAULINE HANSON.
At least she had balls and could run her fish and chip shop better than any of these Government academic smucks
who 80% of the population voted in to government
Australians have got a lot to answer for.
Bring back the old days when we all all all nade ourselves herd.
And men where men who didn't get waxes and wear makeup
like they do today.

Or try to marry each other...

[stevz]

Originally Posted by johnydep

I'm guessing that you missed the period from the late 80's to early 90's & the "recession that Australia had to have" (look it up).

• October 1987 international Stock Market Slump saw markets crash around the world.

• Global share prices fell an average of 25%, but Australia saw a 40% decline.

• 17 of the 18 major OECD economies experienced a recession in the early 90's.

• Black Monday of October 1987, a stock collapse of unprecedented size caused the Dow Jones Industrial Average to fall by 22.6%.

• 1989 inflation increased to 5.1% and economic growth slowed.

• financial institutions failed around Australia, including the State Bank of Victoria, the State Bank of South Australia, the Teachers Credit Union of Western Australia, the Pyramid Building Society as well as several merchant banks, a mortgage trust, and a friendly society.

• Interest rates Jan 1990 17.00 to 17.50

• The 1990 Gulf War, causing spike in the price of oil.

• The collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991

• By 1992 unemployment had reached 11 per cent, the highest level in Australia since the Great Depression of the 1930s

Every decade or generation brings it's a different set of difficulties to overcome. We'll always get through, however, with good planning and strategies we can get through faster and in better shape.

All of which is a drop in the ocean compared to what we are experiencing now and what is yet to come.

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by cheap

Oh no another media conspiracy theory.

?

So when challenged ITS A CONSPIRACY, that's rich!

[Sprint]

Originally Posted by johnydep

I'm guessing that you missed the period from the late 80's to early 90's & the "recession that Australia had to have" (look it up).

• October 1987 international Stock Market Slump saw markets crash around the world.

• Global share prices fell an average of 25%, but Australia saw a 40% decline.

• 17 of the 18 major OECD economies experienced a recession in the early 90's.

• Black Monday of October 1987, a stock collapse of unprecedented size caused the Dow Jones Industrial Average to fall by 22.6%.

• 1989 inflation increased to 5.1% and economic growth slowed.

• financial institutions failed around Australia, including the State Bank of Victoria, the State Bank of South Australia, the Teachers Credit Union of Western Australia, the Pyramid Building Society as well as several merchant banks, a mortgage trust, and a friendly society.

• Interest rates Jan 1990 17.00 to 17.50

• The 1990 Gulf War, causing spike in the price of oil.

• The collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991

• By 1992 unemployment had reached 11 per cent, the highest level in Australia since the Great Depression of the 1930s

Every decade or generation brings it's a different set of difficulties to overcome. We'll always get through, however, with good planning and strategies we can get through faster and in better shape.

Nice info, don't forget the Floating Aussie dollar in 1983.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by stevz

All of which is a drop in the ocean compared to what we are experiencing now and what is yet to come.

Easy said for someone that did not experience it.

People were losing there homes, business were closing down, cities were turning into ghost towns, wages were frozen, cost of living was increasing due to the high inflation rate, the high interest rate and the increase in taxes on every day goods.

Today's economic times are bad and they probably seem a lot worse than anything you've been through before, especially having gone through a prolonged boom, but like every boom there's a downturn.

History is not as boring as it seems. Check it out, you'll find a lot of evidence where past generations have gone through bad times and have said something like "nothing compares to what we are experiencing now". That's part true, because each time is different - circumstances, technology and people.

[Blue Roo]

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

Yep. The PARTY,S OVER FOLKS
Australia down the toilet 400 million debt
Highest income tax in the western world
2nd highest credit card debt per head of population
in the world
More single mothers with 2 or more kids getting 700 + a week handouts from the government
Longest working hours in the western world.
And now 300,000 a year intake of 457 and 456 visa workers to take our jobs.

Bring back PAULINE HANSON.
At least she had balls and could run her fish and chip shop better than any of these Government academic smucks
who 80% of the population voted in to government
Australians have got a lot to answer for.
Bring back the old days when we all all all nade ourselves herd.
And men where men who didn't get waxes and wear makeup
like they do today.

Go Get'em Plucka!