Whats stopping people from buying the Falcon? - Page 10

Brazen · 13-01-2012, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic85

Who knows what the Ford system will be like, it might be the same, it might not.

I didn't say anything about the Ford system, I simply commented on the VW car I drove with the system installed. Didn't you ask the question?

I spent time driving a Audi Q7 3litre diesel and I found it worked well.

Actually getting back into my normal car and having the engine running while I was sitting at a red light felt so.....old fashioned.

jpd80 · 13-01-2012, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic85

Who knows what the Ford system will be like, it might be the same, it might not.

I didn't say anything about the Ford system, I simply commented on the VW car I drove with the system installed. Didn't you ask the question?

Sorry, no direct offense intended, gee there sounds to be real issues with the VW system.
I'm curious because the US Fusion is using 1.6 EB and stop/start with an "Auto trans" (DSG?),
so I think come this time next year we will hear the truth from a market that tough on
shortcomings but if the Ford system survives there then it should be relatively bug free...

Quote:

I work in Newstead and never see them here. Are they the Black & White cab company ones? Or a different company?

IIRC it was Silver Service

MelsGolf · 13-01-2012, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic85

I have. In a new VW Passat diesel. It's the work of the devil. Doesn't work till the engine has warmed up, but once it has, every time you slow down in slow moving traffic, the engine will turn off - combine that with the throttle lag, DSG hesitation and turbo lag on that car, and it was one of the most frustrating experiences of my life.

That's not correct, my Brother has a Diesel Passat CC, you have to be dead still stationary for about 30 seconds before it stops, as soon as you take your foot off the brake it restarts, and you can turn it off. The engine will not turn off while youre coasting or in slow moving traffic.

Nic85 · 13-01-2012, 11:13 PM

When we took the test drive, in slow moving traffic, when I came to a stop behind another car, the engine would switch off. To get going again took what seemed like an eternity. I shouldn't have said, "every time you slow down in slow moving traffic" That was incorrect.

DSG gearboxes really are the work of the devil. But that's another thread altogether.

Bossxr8 · 13-01-2012, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic85

When we took the test drive, in slow moving traffic, when I came to a stop behind another car, the engine would switch off. To get going again took what seemed like an eternity. I shouldn't have said, "every time you slow down in slow moving traffic" That was incorrect.

DSG gearboxes really are the work of the devil. But that's another thread altogether.

DSG gearboxes are the work of the devil IN VW's. Especially if you get a bad one. I'm yet to read a review on one that hasn't criticised the jerkiness of it on takeoff, or slow speed maneuvering.

Other manufacturers don't seem to have the same problems as the VW versions.

Brazen · 13-01-2012, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

DSG gearboxes are the work of the devil IN VW's. Especially if you get a bad one. I'm yet to read a review on one that hasn't criticised the jerkiness of it on takeoff, or slow speed maneuvering.

Other manufacturers don't seem to have the same problems as the VW versions.

The one in the Focus is REALLY bad.

Nic85 · 13-01-2012, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

DSG gearboxes are the work of the devil IN VW's. Especially if you get a bad one. I'm yet to read a review on one that hasn't criticised the jerkiness of it on takeoff, or slow speed maneuvering.

Other manufacturers don't seem to have the same problems as the VW versions.

The ones in the Ralliart Lancer and Evo X MR I drove were horrific too. Infact, the one in the Ralliart Lancer was so bad I cut the test drive short and just went back to the dealership.

b0son · 14-01-2012, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

DSG gearboxes are the work of the devil IN VW's.

If the DSG is the work of the devil, then send me straight to hell. My GTI's DSG was fine... far better than a slush box.

1TUFFUTE · 14-01-2012, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

The one in the Focus is REALLY bad.

really i havnt heard nearly as much problems as vw is with theirs. And i still find it extrordinary that a modern car can have such an unpolished bit of tech that is proven to be a fail everytime you drive it....AMAZING

In Focus · 14-01-2012, 12:14 PM

It's occurred to me of late that one of the reasons people are buying a Mazda 3 or other small car over a Falcon is sheer affordability. I can recall that a small car cost about $20K in 1995, and there was no way I could afford that at the time without taking a loan. In fact, I bought a $17,000 1994 Falcon in 1998 with a loan.

In the last 18 months, the wife and I have both cash purchased small (imported) Fords in the low 20's K range. Two new Falcons, even if desired/needed, would not have been possible for us without digging deep into savings.

To get to the point, maybe a lot of people are buying smaller cars these days simply because the cars are in their price range for affordability. The fact most of these small cars have most/all of the features you need/want means you can buy them new rather than go for a second-hand (larger) car.

There may be a whole chunk of the buying market who would never have bought a new/demo car in the past but are now willing to do so, because the car in question is only a few months' rather than a year's wages.

A Falcon is still at least 50% more than its smaller competition, which is not worth it personally for the 5% or less of the time when the extra space and power would come in handy.

Just my 2c worth.

jpd80 · 14-01-2012, 12:22 PM

Leasing rather than ownership is key here, until Falcon gets better financing and residual values, nothing changes.

How come other brands can do 2% and 4% financing but Ford seems unable to match them?
This to me is where the battle is really being lost, the perception that Falcon is 50% dearer and loses
so much money in the first four years. Reduce the double hurt of interest and depreciation.

Brazen · 14-01-2012, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

really i havnt heard nearly as much problems as vw is with theirs. And i still find it extrordinary that a modern car can have such an unpolished bit of tech that is proven to be a fail everytime you drive it....AMAZING

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...rd-Focus-today.

jpd80 · 14-01-2012, 12:27 PM

In December (winter) in the USA, Ford still sold well over 14,000 Focus with no cash or leasing incentives.
If Powershift was really a dud, no one would be buying them and paying for retail for the pleasure...

Brazen · 14-01-2012, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

In December (winter) in the USA, Ford still sold well over 14,000 Focus with no cash or leasing incentives.
If Powershift was really a dud, no one would be buying them and paying for retail for the pleasure...

It is a very well equipped car with all the latest connectivity tech, It's a great car, just the trans is crapola.

prydey · 14-01-2012, 12:39 PM

speaking to my younger brother the other day (not a car person) and he reckons its tech that will sell cars to gen y. not high tech engines etc but gadgets and do dads on the inside. mentioned the first car to have android compatibility would sell bucketloads. imagine how personalised you'd be able to have your car

i thought it was interesting hearing from a younger non car person. things like that never enter my head. i don't care too much for doo dads and gadgets but probably in a class of 1

he actually was aware of the ford sync system and whatnot which i was impressed with. reckons fords tech is probably up with the best globally.

jpd80 · 14-01-2012, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

It is a very well equipped car with all the latest connectivity tech, It's a great car, just the trans is crapola.

The trans was fixed with software updates, the reports of problems have dropped dramatically.

Could our next Falcon be as simple as grafting a Mustang engine bay onto the AWD Fusion body?
We could then build Mondeo I-4s here alongside V6 and V8 Falcons...everybody wins.

Bossxr8 · 14-01-2012, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...rd-Focus-today.

Wow, someone on a VW enthusiasts site comparing a competitors cars against his VW, and he doesn't like it because the gearbox supposedly does things his VW is renown for.

Wow oh wow. Who would have thought

vztrt · 14-01-2012, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

you probably won't get a new xr6 for $35k drive away either. more than likely late 2011 plate as well.

Only 1k more.

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/...1&sort=default

jpd80 · 14-01-2012, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Only 1k more.

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/...1&sort=default

Those cars are 2011 plate, yeah probably November- December but still 2011,
something that does play against you when selling in a few years...

Only separated by one month but a Jan-2012 will fetch more than a Dec-2011,
been the victim of it once but never again....

prydey · 14-01-2012, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Those cars are 2011 plate, yeah probably November- December but still 2011,
something that does play against you when selling in a few years...

my bf2 was a 12/06 build and 1st registered 1/07. i actually advertised it as 07 when i sold it, but was very up front about the build date, and the amount of people that walked away after that....

you wouldn't think it would make that much difference, but it does.

DanielXR8 · 14-01-2012, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

my bf2 was a 12/06 build and 1st registered 1/07. i actually advertised it as 07 when i sold it, but was very up front about the build date, and the amount of people that walked away after that....

you wouldn't think it would make that much difference, but it does.

Being upfront means you advertised it as the 06 model it was in the first place. People probably wondered if there was something else you weren't being so upfront about, after finding the advertised date was the first thing wrong.

It sucks when you have a December build car for sure, but if it was built in 06 thats what it is. Hammer the purchase price down when you get it, because you pay for it at resale time as you discovered I'm guessing.

prydey · 14-01-2012, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Being upfront means you advertised it as the 06 model it was in the first place. People probably wondered if there was something else you weren't being so upfront about, after finding the advertised date was the first thing wrong.

It sucks when you have a December build car for sure, but if it was built in 06 thats what it is. Hammer the purchase price down when you get it, because you pay for it at resale time as you discovered I'm guessing.

selling cars is a tough gig, so whatever helps to attract a bigger crowd.... i did mention it was 06 in the longer details/description, so i felt i wasn't being dishonest.

jpd80 · 14-01-2012, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

selling cars is a tough gig, so whatever helps to attract a bigger crowd.... i did mention it was 06 in the longer details/description, so i felt i wasn't being dishonest.

I believe you but it just another example of how buying a discounted late year plate
can work against you if you turn your cars over fairly regularly in two or three years time.
Think about the buyers who ponyed up full retail for those FGII bought before Christmas
and how they must feel seeing their cars with good discounts one month later...

martyk54 · 14-01-2012, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

selling cars is a tough gig, so whatever helps to attract a bigger crowd.... i did mention it was 06 in the longer details/description, so i felt i wasn't being dishonest.

Wrong approach...

People almost expect to be taken for a ride with a second hand car, therefore are automatically on the defensive. Don't think for a second that people walked away due to 1 month on the build date, they walked because they smelt a rat. Right or wrong, that's the way it is.

You say selling cars is a tough gig, try laying down the literals, shooting at market price and being pleasant to your audience, works for me. I've sold many cars and never had any problems. I hardly think 1 month on the build date makes any difference, kms, reputable servicing and general condition take priority with buyers... again, that's from my experience.

martyk54 · 14-01-2012, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

I believe you but it just another example of how buying a discounted late year plate
can work against you if you turn your cars over fairly regularly in two or three years time.
Think about the buyers who ponyed up full retail for those FGII bought before Christmas
and how they must feel seeing their cars with good discounts one month later...

How about the buyers who ponyed up 35k for an 'old' out of date FG up until the start of the year? Point??

Bottom line... 2012 FGII XR6s won't sell for any more than this when they become available anyway, otherwise they simply won't sell. I highly doubt anyone paid much more than 36k for an FGII last year anyway. Not unless you walked in and said sign me up, I'm a bunny.

BOSSGT302 · 14-01-2012, 10:45 PM

When considering this debate, we should remember that there isn't a Falcon wagon anymore and people wanting a wagon, who aren"t worried about brand may move to the Commomdore wagon if still requiring a large car. Also Ford have added the Territory and I have heard the new model is selling quite well, so if you added Falcon and Territory sales, were does Ford stand against the No 1 & 2 on the sales list?
I also know someone who bought the Mondeo wagon as it still had more rear space then the Commondore and are very happy with the quality of the vehicle. There are lots of things to consider when buying a car.
Just one more thing and again about no Falcon wagon, how does this effect fleet sales.

jpd80 · 14-01-2012, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyk54

How about the buyers who ponyed up 35k for an 'old' out of date FG up until the start of the year? Point??

They got a discounted price and it was for FG which was aging, people knew that.
The point is that those people buying FGII XR6 before Christmas paid well over $40K drive away
and not one month after, the same cars built at the same time are now going for way less.

I'm not griping, just pointing out the importance of going in eyes open buying a
new model released just before Christmas, probably a reason why sales were down too.

1TUFFUTE · 15-01-2012, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...rd-Focus-today.

well that was a waste of time...thats just auseless opinion from some kid with clear biases.Most of the guys disslikes where purely things that one person will like and the next will love. Im talking about proper serious complaints with background...and id argue vw shouldnt evn have a quality issue such as this in this day and age....espescially a gearbox....ford....most people these days would just go, see just another ford problem. How uneducated.
but seriously didnt ford fix their problem...has the vw boxs been fixed yet...im not sure...maybe not if were still hearing about them...

Nic85 · 15-01-2012, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

well that was a waste of time...thats just auseless opinion from some kid with clear biases.Most of the guys disslikes where purely things that one person will like and the next will love. Im talking about proper serious complaints with background...and id argue vw shouldnt evn have a quality issue such as this in this day and age....espescially a gearbox....ford....most people these days would just go, see just another ford problem. How uneducated.
but seriously didnt ford fix their problem...has the vw boxs been fixed yet...im not sure...maybe not if were still hearing about them...

Sorry, I know we're way off topic now, I just thought this was interesting.

When I was looking at a new car last year, I did drive a Golf GTi and really liked it. I almost bought one. When I sat down with the "Warranty guy" he was explaining the VW warranty to me, then told me about the extended warranty that the dealer does, but it's through VW. His explanation to me was, "Say for example your DSG gearbox blows up and it costs $8k to fix it..." I thought, I'm outta here.

Bossxr8 · 15-01-2012, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic85

Sorry, I know we're way off topic now, I just thought this was interesting.

When I was looking at a new car last year, I did drive a Golf GTi and really liked it. I almost bought one. When I sat down with the "Warranty guy" he was explaining the VW warranty to me, then told me about the extended warranty that the dealer does, but it's through VW. His explanation to me was, "Say for example your DSG gearbox blows up and it costs $8k to fix it..." I thought, I'm outta here.

8k would be a cheap fix, i'm used to hearing about 10k all up. Half the value of the car. It must be made of unobtanium.