Ecoboost whats the point

[RASER]

The EB would have been the PERFECT opportunity to reduce the price by $5000, what Ford needs is a baseline Falcon they can sell for $29,990 driveaway

The price is getting out of reach now @ $35k++, far to many quality vehicles and SUV's for less

Shame really, 50+ years down the toilet, one step at the time....

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by flappist

In the same way if there was a model variant now dropped that you did like and you did not buy one then YOU are part of the reason it is gone.

So it's the consumers fault?


Poor dealer service
Outrageuos pricing
Poor value
Lack of features
Nil or invisible advertising
Mis-matched variants
Lack of availability
Lacklustre styling
Below average quality

These are some of the reasons many potentially successful variants disappear from the car world on a daily basis. A vehicle only needs a couple of factors from the above list and it's on its way to death.

Often it is the car-maker not the consumer which is the problem.

[prydey]

some people seem think that ford (or any other manufacturer) just think up a number to put on their cars and claim as a fuel consumption figure. there is a set ADR process that determines the figure. any figure that it determines is able to be used by the manufacturer to advertise the cars economy.

news flash, bf's were never advertised as 10.9 for city driving. falcons adr urban figure has been around 14L/100km for a while (give or take). personally i think it is a very achievable figure. obviously everyones circumstances are different, which is why average km/h figures should also be cited when sprouting fuel economy numbers. to achieve 8.5 in a falcon, the average speed would be high 70's at best, possibly even mid 80's. not really fair to compare that with someone who travels peak hour and averages 18km/h and gets 14l/100km.

ecoboost urban figure is 11ish i think. those that have driven it claim most should be able to see an improvement over the 6cyl. those who read the '4cyl' bit and then start making comments about how much further you need to put your foot down etc etc need to read the specs on the engine. (and move into the 21st century)

Originally Posted by Brazen

I wouldnt be suprised if they bring out a Ecoboost XR6 eventually.

why? xr6 sells pretty well as it is. i'm tipping they are looking to try and sell all model variants in similar numbers.

now that they have a few engine options, i think the petrol I6 should be dropped from the rest of the line up and only be available in xr6, once again separating it from the rest. xt, g6 and g6e in ecoboost or ecolpi only. xr6 in I6 petrol or ecolpi.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by prydey

why? xr6 sells pretty well as it is. i'm tipping they are looking to try and sell all model variants in similar numbers.

now that they have a few engine options, i think the petrol I6 should be dropped from the rest of the line up and only be available in xr6, once again separating it from the rest. xt, g6 and g6e in ecoboost or ecolpi only. xr6 in I6 petrol or ecolpi.

It is an interesting point you & brazen bring up. I can totally get what you are saying & half of me agrees with you. But the other half of me also agrees with Brazen. If people are moving away from I6, then I think it is a big misstake not to put it in your best sell model & stop the bleeding. But, then your points are valued too..


Lets hope Ford have this one right..

[prydey]

many people say xr6 is the new base model. making it the only car in the lineup to get petrol 6 might help to remove that tag, which might also assist sales. having said that, i don't think many people really care about cylinder count anymore. even the fuel economy thing is a bit of a cop out given how many 'thirstier' suv's sell.

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The BMW 3 and 5 series would come close, available with 4, 6 and 8 cylinders, NA and Turbo as well as diesel.

The LH / LX Torana between 1974 and 1978. 1.9L 4 cyl. 2.8L 6 cyl, 3.3L 6 cyl, 4.2L V8 and 5.0L V8 and a diesel in NZ

[RedHotGT]

Originally Posted by Brazen

So it's the consumers fault?

Poor dealer service
Outrageuos pricing
Poor value
Lack of features
Nil or invisible advertising
Mis-matched variants
Lack of availability
Lacklustre styling
Below average quality

These are some of the reasons many potentially successful variants disappear from the car world on a daily basis. A vehicle only needs a couple of factors from the above list and it's on its way to death.

Often it is the car-maker not the consumer which is the problem.

Car-maker's build cars with many of those above factors all the time. And they sell the car quite successfully. How successful was the 90s Hyundai Excel? Or the Daewoo Lanos?? What about the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo range (Massive difference between the 2nd best Lancer vs the EVO - and about $40k)

I would have thought that a considerable factor for why a brand/make/model disappears is because when it was conceived and released, it was at the top of it's game. Then a competitor makes a similar car that is either cheaper, better, or both. There would be very few makes/models that last less than 12 months. The Fairlane for instance, was around for many years and now is discontinued (because European cars aren't 'that' much more expensive than Aussie made luxos). The XR8 was around nearly 20 years - and now essentially the FPV GS does what it could do.

The Ecoboost could well be the best thing that's happened to Ford for years! And the people that turn their nose up at it - probably wouldn't have bought the 6cyl version anyway.

I hope it goes well for Ford - both mechanically and sales wise. I'm not their target market, so I won't be buying one. But i'm sure there will be plenty of people out there who will.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Brazen

So it's the consumers fault?


Poor dealer service
Outrageuos pricing
Poor value
Lack of features
Nil or invisible advertising
Mis-matched variants
Lack of availability
Lacklustre styling
Below average quality

These are some of the reasons many potentially successful variants disappear from the car world on a daily basis. A vehicle only needs a couple of factors from the above list and it's on its way to death.

Often it is the car-maker not the consumer which is the problem.

If you read the whole of my post you will see it applies to BA-FG2 Falcons & SX-SZ Terris specifically to the various model variants that have been discontinued e.g. V8 Fairmont or manual XT.

In this is a Ford forum there are very few on here who are not reasonably familiar with the various permutations of these two vehicles over the last decade.

[drwevil]

The 2l EB engine while its a fun drive isnt worthy of the XR badge ....
The 3.5 V6 EB on the other hand would be a blast...

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by drwevil

The 2l EB engine while its a fun drive isnt worthy of the XR badge ....
The 3.5 V6 EB on the other hand would be a blast...

IMO it would be a HUGE wasted opportunity not to make a EB XR6. I mean lets face it, the XR6 as we knew it (Tickford Era) died come BA. So while from an enthusiasts POV it was a shame from a brand point of view it lifted the Falcon by having the sporty model being cheaper and perhaps the XR6T replacing what was the enthusiasts 6 cylinder Falcon.

The XR6 I believe is the private buyers choice by a mile, Ive heard fleets even favour it as it has slightly better resale (cant be much though).

Either way, Ford needs numbers and anything it can do to increase its reach without adding costs (a EB XR6 is just an interior and bumper change from a XT) I would be all for.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Would you pay the same price for a BMW 525i as a BMW 550i ?

BMW fit higher equipment levels on the bigger engined cars as well, its not just a different engine like XT, G6 or G6E, so not apples with apples.

Originally Posted by Brazen

With people seeing Ecoboost around, positive road tests, and having a few dealers and Ford workers on here, just wondering has Ecoboost been a success?

Realise it may be too early to tell, but even a few weeks into diesel Territory release demand was outstripping supply - has there been a real surge in Falcons from what people can tell? Be curious if there is a real order surge banking up which might give a boost to sales figures over the next few months.

Based on build numbers i'd say it hasn't been, some days they don't even build any and other days maybe 5-8. So tiny numbers, but it might be a bit early to say, there could be other factors. They probably build just as many V8's as they do Ecoboosts.

But is it really any surprise, they don't advertise them so very few people are probably even aware they exist.

A real shame cause its a good product that deserves to succeed.

Originally Posted by RASER

The EB would have been the PERFECT opportunity to reduce the price by $5000, what Ford needs is a baseline Falcon they can sell for $29,990 driveaway

The price is getting out of reach now @ $35k++, far to many quality vehicles and SUV's for less

Shame really, 50+ years down the toilet, one step at the time....

Ford cut the price of FGII down by up to $3000, and upped equipment levels at the same time, so they have already done it. Any further and they probably start hacking too far into profit levels.

[TMC]

I know they won't do it, but a 3L I6 Ecoboost engine would be so cool. 270kW at 5000rpm and 530Nm at 1900rpm would be a killer engine for a Falcon or Territory. You have covered all bases with that configuration. Midsize 6 cylinder with monster power, and economy in cruise mode.

[music189]

Originally Posted by GT0132

The LH / LX Torana between 1974 and 1978. 1.9L 4 cyl. 2.8L 6 cyl, 3.3L 6 cyl, 4.2L V8 and 5.0L V8 and a diesel in NZ

Torana diesel ????? never heard that before

[flooded one]

I remeber gemini diesels. It could exist. i mean there was a 4 cylinder commodore and also there was 4 cylinder commodores in new zealand up to the the VN i think???

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by music189

Torana diesel ????? never heard that before

never seen or heard of that

Originally Posted by wildrider

I remeber gemini diesels. It could exist. i mean there was a 4 cylinder commodore and also there was 4 cylinder commodores in new zealand up to the the VN i think???

not quite, we got the 4 cylinder starfire p.o.s, then the vl had the rb20 6 cylinder as the base engine, then the vn went back to the 2.0 4 cylinder bucket as the base engine.

[Matty4]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

then the vl had the rb20 6 cylinder as the base engine, then the vn went back to the 2.0 4 cylinder bucket as the base engine.

Not here is Aus.
The VL only had the RB30E or RB30ET and the VN had the Buick sourced 3.8 V6.
There was of course the optional V8's still

[dimka100]

what profit levels are you talking about? nobody ever pays anywhere near the RRP prices for Falcons, Fleets and general ABN holders get well over 20% - 30% discount on Falcons ... why should the regular consumer be paying more?

This is whats been really hurting the Falcon in the retail market, buyers simply do not accept paying loads more for a car that other can easily get for a lot less ... just look at the success of the Mazda3, its price is fixed no matter if you buy 1 or 1000 ... that's why the product has such a good resale value and that's why people buying it feel like they are getting good value for money.

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Ford cut the price of FGII down by up to $3000, and upped equipment levels at the same time, so they have already done it. Any further and they probably start hacking too far into profit levels.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Matty4

Not here is Aus.
The VL only had the RB30E or RB30ET and the VN had the Buick sourced 3.8 V6.
There was of course the optional V8's still

In New Zealand and I believe Singapore the VL had an RB20 (2 liter six), but the "smallest" engine here in Oz was the excellent RB30 3 liter. Interestingly, the RB26DETT out of a GTR Skyline will drop straight into a VL...the front wheel drive part of the system even bolts straight up to the front subframe of the VL. One "sleeper" that was in Street Machine many years back was a plain looking VL with the running gear out of an R32 GTR Skyline with the full AWD system. The guy who owned it laughed and said after he registered it, for a laugh he got his elderly mother to drive it to the local Holden dealer to get them to check the oil in her "old Commodore", and watch the expression on their face when they opened the bonnet...

Starting to see a few TV adverts for the Ecoboost Falcon..."four cylinder registration and running costs, big car comfort" type of thing. Well done!

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Starting to see a few TV adverts for the Ecoboost Falcon..."four cylinder registration and running costs, big car comfort" type of thing. Well done!

You are?? That is new?

[flooded one]

i havent seen it. hope i do soon!! bout time ford advertised it on tele!! even that cane toad road video on youtube would be pretty cool on TV

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by RASER

The EB would have been the PERFECT opportunity to reduce the price by $5000, what Ford needs is a baseline Falcon they can sell for $29,990 driveaway

The price is getting out of reach now @ $35k++, far to many quality vehicles and SUV's for less

Shame really, 50+ years down the toilet, one step at the time....

Falcon value packs have been anchored at $36,990 and $35,990 for nearly 15 years now.

So you think that dropping the price to $29,990 drive away will bring back buyers but Ford is probably better off selling
lower numbers for $6,000 more per car instead of wasting money and resources building cars wich much less profit.
Well, that's what we're hearing from Ford CEO Bob Graziano and why Ford isn't pursuing low profit fleet sales anymore..

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Falcon value packs have been anchored at $36,990 and $35,990 for nearly 15 years now.

So you think that dropping the price to $29,990 drive away will bring back buyers but Ford is probably better off selling
lower numbers for $6,000 more per car instead of wasting money and resources building cars wich much less profit.
Well, that's what we're hearing from Ford CEO Bob Graziano and why Ford isn't pursuing low profit fleet sales anymore..

Don't tell them that, some of these guys think the way to run Ford would be to sell the Falcons for $20k and spend an infinite amount of money on advertising. That will solve all their problems!

[brett7777]

"Ecoboost whats the point" ...of this debate?

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by wildrider

i havent seen it. hope i do soon!! bout time ford advertised it on tele!! even that cane toad road video on youtube would be pretty cool on TV

It is a shame they can't edit that one down to 30 seconds & put is on TV a few times.. Then make some funny billboards or paper adds to go with it...


I think a perfect example of very very simple advertising that is very effective, I've seen recently.. Is the commonwealth bank add of just putting the word "Can't" in big letter on billboards!!! Whoever thought of that one (which would have been cheap), is a smart person. Ford could do something like this so easy. Similar format, just but a Cane toad on the billboards for 1-2 weeks.. All of a sudden everyone wants to know "What f' is this cane toad about'... Then you hit them with the message..

[RASER]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Falcon value packs have been anchored at $36,990 and $35,990 for nearly 15 years now.

So you think that dropping the price to $29,990 drive away will bring back buyers but Ford is probably better off selling
lower numbers for $6,000 more per car instead of wasting money and resources building cars wich much less profit.
Well, that's what we're hearing from Ford CEO Bob Graziano and why Ford isn't pursuing low profit fleet sales anymore..

Not saying they would sell more, but it would open up to more customers who have capped there budget to $29,990 where you can buy a whole heap of vehicles.

After all when u buy a vehicle u will have to know your top budget figure, maybe Ford can do a Germany brand mantra, start with a low price and then charge for every option which should really be standard and raises the price to +35% and more extra

History has shown selling more for less is better than selling less for more, makes jobs and opportunity all along the chain, manufacture, dealership, workshop etc, its a numbers game with flow-on-effect.

[RASER]

Originally Posted by chevypower

Don't tell them that, some of these guys think the way to run Ford would be to sell the Falcons for $20k and spend an infinite amount of money on advertising. That will solve all their problems!

Here in AUS, $20k is the "compact" price point, Corolla, Focus, Lancer etc

Cannot and should not sell a Falcon for that.

$29,990 is a do-able and fair real price for a Falcon, $40k is not, just to many other brands and models here to take away buyers attention.

Puts pressure on the Mondeo but thats imported, a hatch, FWD and diesel so a different punter is buying that.Besides we want Ford jobs in AUS not Belgium, Belgiums/Europeans can buy Mondeos, we need to look after our own brothers

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by RASER

Here in AUS, $20k is the "compact" price point, Corolla, Focus, Lancer etc

Cannot and should not sell a Falcon for that.

$29,990 is a do-able and fair real price for a Falcon, $40k is not, just to many other brands and models here to take away buyers attention.

Puts pressure on the Mondeo but thats imported, a hatch, FWD and diesel so a different punter is buying that.Besides we want Ford jobs in AUS not Belgium, Belgiums/Europeans can buy Mondeos, we need to look after our own brothers

So what is the cost price of building, selling and warranting a Falcon sold at this pricepoint?

[RASER]

Originally Posted by tweeked

So what is the cost price of building, selling and warranting a Falcon sold at this pricepoint?

U will have to ask FoA accountants, they could sell it at that price, and may have to in the future.

They already have ~ $2000+ head start [freight, duty, storage etc] on even cheap imported vehicles, plus all the GovCo hand outs etc

Need a Falcon's with powertrain options of, diesel, hybrid, electric and alcohol fuel, VW does it and sure Ford could too

[JADED6]

I think a falcon with a 4 is a bit like a bloke walking around with womens underwear under his jeans. From the outside, all may appear normal but you'd never feel quite right about it.

I hope for ford it sells. Sad days for the automotive industry as it all seems like last ditch attemps for the falcon.

[RASER]

Originally Posted by JADED6

I think a falcon with a 4 is a bit like a bloke walking around with womens underwear under his jeans. From the outside, all may appear normal but you'd never feel quite right about it.

I hope for ford it sells. Sad days for the automotive industry as it all seems like last ditch attemps for the falcon.

+1

Which/who womens underware, soiled or unsoiled?

Yes the Falcon is sinking, done it all themselves, no such problems at team Red