Fpv

[Auslandau]

Put a Holden badge on it ....... imagine how they would fly out the door then! As joking as that is ...... they have done it and continue to do it with Daewoo's, imagine if they put a lion on a really really good car

Marketing isn't really the answer, cant remember a HSV add? ...... neither is heated seats, rain sensor wipers, etc

Personally would like keyless start ...... and that's about it for me. The touch screen, sat nav is brilliant in the FG11, stereo could be better but that's not a deal breaker. Colours could be added. But would it add more sales??

I just think its the attitude or expectations of people not wanting a very quick car when a mediocre car is good enough as long as it has shiny buttons inside to keep them awake rather than the actual driving experience.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by 99AUXR

Rodge your from NZ aswell, and I wonder if its the same in aussie.

But holden personally dont outsell because of gismo's or anything like that. . . sure it helps but when I ask a holden owner/supposed holden fan why they buy/would go the holden option over the ford, I get multiple answers like "Because they are better". When I ask why they can't explain to me. I also get a large number of "because they win more races". hmmm wonder if they no of FPR success lately.

All I mean to say is there seams to be some very ill informed decisions when people buy cars, especially ford and holden. And that some people get to the first dealer and go wow yes that one. I see this allot.

HSV have been around as a brand for bloody ages so there's bound to be more entrenched brand loyalty there. As for Holden, I'm sure you would agree mate, there's been some really good advertising with their Holden Go Better campaign, the majority of the sheep don't seem to ask how exactly is it that they "go better" To their credit I've just noticed Ford starting to take it back to Holden with some very good and creative advertising around the Fieldays campaign, finished off with Ford, "Go Further". They need to push the new Ecoboost thing. Yeah its great to see FPR finally doing well but lets be realistic, that's only a recent thing isn't it. Holden do a lot of work with low interest finance, just a thought, when was the last time there was low or no interest finance on Falcon / FPV ?

[Kryton]

Originally Posted by Rodge

when was the last time there was low or no interest finance on Falcon / FPV ?

Ford DONT finance and havent done for years.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by davway

Ford DONT finance and havent done for years.

I know the debacle of Ford credit with the GFC but its time they re-invented that side of the operation IMO. Next to the old saying of "sex sells" the next best one is cheap credit sells. Suppose FPV were put in a position where they could sell GT's at full retail price with 1/3rd down, and 36 monthly payments @ 5% interest, you think that would sell quite a number of them ?
If they could get wholesale non-recourse funding at 9-10% this deal would nearly fund itself due to the fact that cars are being sold at full retail. Silly idea or worth trying, what do you think gents ?

[My poor XF]

Originally Posted by davway

Holden didnt want your business because:
1/ They didnt have an SS wagon to show you because they had sold all the floor stock but still offer to get you one in anyway for a test drive ($500 shows your serious, not just some **** kicker).
2/ 2 other dealers have sold out and offer to get you one in for you to test drive.
3/ you expect them to let you test drive an unregistered Clubsport.


Seems you really cant please some people - they did what they could for you.
You wouldnt even put down $500 to show your serious, and not just one of the 50 dreamers that walk in everyday looking for a free ride in something they cant afford - and you wonder why they never rang you back.

The difference is Holden are selling the cars, thats why they had none for you to test drive, where as Ford arent, thats why they had them sitting around on the showroom floor.

1.) Who's going to put cash down on a car they haven't even driven or sure they want???
2.) fair enough
3.) Whats the point of trade plates?

Bloke bought a GT so clearly wasn't a tyre kicker. sounds to me like he wasn't impressed with their attitude and service. But if your happy to pay for things you haven't tried in the hope it's right for YOU the good on ya.

[Cashie]

I wasn't going to post here but thought since I have owned 2 FGs, 5 BA/BFs and 4 VEs (Holden and HSV) in the last 9 years, I might have an opinion.
I only buy used cars and am not overly brand loyal (I buy the car that best suits my budget and requirements).
Being a used car buyer puts a different spin on things, if I want a used large Aussie built V8 sedan, that looks like the current model and is value buying, I am almost always going to choose a VE SS/SSV/Calais (model has been out since 06 and used models can be picked up far cheaper than a FG), also, FG XR8s are thin on the ground.
If I want a 6 cylinder, IMO the FG is the only used Aussie large car worth buying for the money (ZF and I6 are standouts IMO).
If I am after an FPV or HSV (which my next car most likely will be), I have a feeling I will be getting a HSV E Series II. Good buying ATM, cheaper than a Coyote FG, and if I ask the wife (which I will have to ), she thinks the HSV looks more like a performance car and less like the family car it is based on (I love the FG II's with the coyote, but she may be right, the FPVs don't have enough outside to differentiate them)...
Having said all that, my current car I'm keeping an eye on used prices of is an FG F6......

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by Cashie

If I am after an FPV or HSV (which my next car most likely will be), I have a feeling I will be getting a HSV E Series II. Good buying ATM, cheaper than a Coyote FG, and if I ask the wife (which I will have to ), she thinks the HSV looks more like a performance car and less like the family car it is based on (I love the FG II's with the coyote, but she may be right, the FPVs don't have enough outside to differentiate them)...
Having said all that, my current car I'm keeping an eye on used prices of is an FG F6......

This blokes wife is on the money and I believe is the reason many B series FPV owners are reluctant to update

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by My poor XF

1.) Who's going to put cash down on a car they haven't even driven or sure they want???
2.) fair enough
3.) Whats the point of trade plates?

Bloke bought a GT so clearly wasn't a tyre kicker. sounds to me like he wasn't impressed with their attitude and service. But if your happy to pay for things you haven't tried in the hope it's right for YOU the good on ya.

1/ as said, its just a deposit, shows your not wasting their time. you do get it back...

3/ maybe if you had fronted up the 5 hundy the trade plates would have appeared? who knows...

your not just giving them $500 for a test drive, be cheaper to go hire one.
(presuming you can hire them from somewhere)

i used to be the same, i refused to put money down just for a test drive, but it seems to be a part of the modern buying/selling game, and i doubt its going anywhere.

[Shonky.]

I have never and would never put $'s down for a drive.

If I look them in the eye and say I am serious and they won't take that at face value then I can't and won't do business with them

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by davway

The difference is Holden are selling the cars, thats why they had none for you to test drive, where as Ford arent, thats why they had them sitting around on the showroom floor.

Why do people keep saying this, they only sold 2500 Commodores last month and numbers sold are dropping month after month. They are in just as much strife as Ford are in regards to sales of their large cars, yet everyone thinks Holden are doing really well.

They must have thousands of unsold cars sitting on grass and at dealerships.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Why do people keep saying this, they only sold 2500 Commodores last month and numbers sold are dropping month after month. They are in just as much strife as Ford are in regards to sales of their large cars, yet everyone thinks Holden are doing really well.

They must have thousands of unsold cars sitting on grass and at dealerships.

thats it, if it wasnt for cruze holden would be in deep do do right now.

[HUNTER8]

The plot thickens.....
Can anyone explain this?
https://connectonline.asic.gov.au/Re...e=guy4r59yv_24

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by HUNTER8

The plot thickens.....
Can anyone explain this?
https://connectonline.asic.gov.au/Re...e=guy4r59yv_24

was prodrive (the prodrive from the uk) ever actually registered in aus?

[HUNTER8]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

was prodrive (the prodrive from the uk) ever actually registered in aus?

"Bryan Mears, the managing director of FPV majority shareholder Prodrive Automotive Technology Asia Pacific" ...yes.

[HUNTER8]

In case that link is not owrking properly......

Company Summary …
Name: PREMCAR PTY LTD
ACN: 075 575 530
ABN: 72 075 575 530
Registration date: 11/09/1996
Next review date: 11/09/2012
Former name(s): PRODRIVE AUTOMOTIVE TECHNOLOGY (AUSTRALIA) PTY. LTD., PRODRIVE AUTOMOTIVE TECHNOLOGY (ASIA PACIFIC) PTY LTD, TICKFORD ASIA PACIFIC PTY. LTD., TICKFORD (ASIA PACIFIC) PTY. LTD., A.C.N. 075 575 530 PTY LTD

Status: Registered
Company Type: Australian Proprietary Company, Limited By Shares
Locality of registered office: Campbellfield VIC 3061
Regulator: Australian Securities & Investments Commission

Documents … Show all documents



Last 3 Documents Lodged

Date Document No. Document type Pages Uncertified Certified
1/06/2012 028142997 Change to Company Details (484)
Not Available


30/05/2012 027729028 Notification of Resolution Changing Company Name (205A) 2 $18.00
$36.00

24/10/2011 027591322 Change to Company Details (484)

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by davway

Holden didnt want your business because:
1/ They didnt have an SS wagon to show you because they had sold all the floor stock but still offer to get you one in anyway for a test drive ($500 shows your serious, not just some **** kicker).
2/ 2 other dealers have sold out and offer to get you one in for you to test drive.
3/ you expect them to let you test drive an unregistered Clubsport.


Seems you really cant please some people - they did what they could for you.
You wouldnt even put down $500 to show your serious, and not just one of the 50 dreamers that walk in everyday looking for a free ride in something they cant afford - and you wonder why they never rang you back.

The difference is Holden are selling the cars, thats why they had none for you to test drive, where as Ford arent, thats why they had them sitting around on the showroom floor.

I wouldn't buy a car that the dealer wouldn't let me test drive. Most cars in dealerships are unregistered..... that's why they have trade plates...

Have you ever bought a new car? Doesn't sound like you have.

[Kryton]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

I wouldn't buy a car that the dealer wouldn't let me test drive. Most cars in dealerships are unregistered..... that's why they have trade plates...

Have you ever bought a new car? Doesn't sound like you have.

Seems some just dont get it.
Who said he had to buy a car without test driving it?
They offered to get the car in for him to test drive - they just asked for a deposit so they know he is serious.
Yes, they do have trade plates so i dont know the reason for not wanting to take the black Clubby.
Maybe it was in the showroom, maybe the buyer looked like a dero straight from the ghetto - who knows - who really cares.
My vehicle purchase history is irrelevant.
I was merely pointing out how someone who was complaining about poor service, really was offered everything but.

[Pepscobra]

Sorry guys... To save me reading through the entire thread; has there been an official announcement from FPV on this yet? I believe this was coming soon?

[Shonky.]

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

Sorry guys... To save me reading through the entire thread; has there been an official announcement from FPV on this yet? I believe this was coming soon?

ha ha, probably not the best place to look if you want an update

I think other than the first page and this post there is not much content

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

I have something new to add I just found out in the last 30 mins.
FPV building was for sale this is because FPV don't own the building, it was sold by the owner and the new owner of the building has to comply with the FPV lease and will still be in place for the next 6 years, this the term has left to run.
The sacking at FPV were for streamlining the business most jobs that went were in what they would call marketing, creative etc.
FPV will still be there for a few more years as they 6 years left on there lease and FPR will still be V8 supercar next year.
The person now running FPV had been running it for the 12 months as he was covering a person who had time off with illness.
Other than streamlining costs I have been told its business as usual and I lot of recent media reports have been based on assumptions, not real facts.
There will be no Mustang in the short term, after this who knows.

The limited edition GT coming out soon wont have a power upgrade, it will have a 9'' rear wheel with a 275 tyre, it will also have factory race style suspension.

[flooded one]

i have never and will never pay any deposit or buy any car before i test drive one!! i want too be assured the car has everything i want before i buy it and i like the way it drives. I have found that most dealerships are happy too give you a test drive of a car if you arrive in a car that is fairly presentable and you appear presentable. (not a belted up VH with every panel kick in etc or wearing a singlette with thongs etc). you do get the occasional salesman thats just a basturd if he thinks your not serious. thats when i say see you later and go to another dealership!! there are some dealerships that have salesmen like that. I do however see that as a big problem when it comes too new car sales.

[JPFS1]

Wasn't just FPV side that got cuts either, there were cuts to the Prodrive payroll also.

We are living in a world where businesses need to streamline and find efficiencies, if a job can be centralised, achieve the same or better outcomes for less $$$ input, then this is what will happen and is happening all over the place, and not just limited to FPV.

But of course the media jump on the bandwagon with just a whisper of info and essentially no further facts and just throw more fuel on the fire.

[Shonky.]

Back on topic........happy days!

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by davway

Seems some just dont get it.
Who said he had to buy a car without test driving it?
They offered to get the car in for him to test drive - they just asked for a deposit so they know he is serious.
Yes, they do have trade plates so i dont know the reason for not wanting to take the black Clubby.
Maybe it was in the showroom, maybe the buyer looked like a dero straight from the ghetto - who knows - who really cares.
My vehicle purchase history is irrelevant.
I was merely pointing out how someone who was complaining about poor service, really was offered everything but.

see your points , i did the same with ford when i bought the ba gt , these cars sell themselves they said , well sell them to someone else . 3 ford dealers missed my sale ,this was in 2005 when they tried to follow HSV 's lead of some sort of privelidged right to test drive them the one that had a car and threw me the keys had a deposit when i returned . i was surprised holden was like this at 3 dealerships also THIS YEAR , if they want to sell demos and having nothing to look at , people like me wont buy a car , it's that simple , by the way , sometimes i look like a homeless hobo , other times i dress up , ( who cares ) anyone who cares about this i'm happy to have them lose my business, i was making a point . i'm a FORD MAN , i gave holden the opportunity to convert me , they tried to convert me by sitting in a chair , and telling me they can order one for me at 47k if i lay down 500 bucks , i can see they really go hard at trying to steal fords business , or show someone a vehicle .
if your ever in need of a job DAVWAY , dont apply for a sales position with cars, you wont get a sale off me .
if i go to KFC , and they dont have any chicken , and red rooster is across the road , do you think i'm going to worry about the KFC store .

the other point i was making was i went to buy a GS , 3 dealerships wanted too much on a GS , the one that sold me the GT , offered the best price on a GS , but a better price on a GT , telling me that a GT is a better car , and a better buy , and a better bargain , he was right , perhaps thats why we arent seeing many GS's on the road .
by the way DAVWAY , would you like to come over for dinner , dont eat all day so you dont spoil your appetite , but i may be out of food when you arrive . it's the INVITE that counts right .

[Venomous1]

Originally Posted by Cashie

I wasn't going to post here but thought since I have owned 2 FGs, 5 BA/BFs and 4 VEs (Holden and HSV) in the last 9 years, I might have an opinion.
I only buy used cars and am not overly brand loyal (I buy the car that best suits my budget and requirements).
Being a used car buyer puts a different spin on things, if I want a used large Aussie built V8 sedan, that looks like the current model and is value buying, I am almost always going to choose a VE SS/SSV/Calais (model has been out since 06 and used models can be picked up far cheaper than a FG), also, FG XR8s are thin on the ground.
If I want a 6 cylinder, IMO the FG is the only used Aussie large car worth buying for the money (ZF and I6 are standouts IMO).
If I am after an FPV or HSV (which my next car most likely will be), I have a feeling I will be getting a HSV E Series II. Good buying ATM, cheaper than a Coyote FG, and if I ask the wife (which I will have to ), she thinks the HSV looks more like a performance car and less like the family car it is based on (I love the FG II's with the coyote, but she may be right, the FPVs don't have enough outside to differentiate them)...
Having said all that, my current car I'm keeping an eye on used prices of is an FG F6......

Bolded Best Part.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

Wasn't just FPV side that got cuts either, there were cuts to the Prodrive payroll also.

We are living in a world where businesses need to streamline and find efficiencies, if a job can be centralised, achieve the same or better outcomes for less $$$ input, then this is what will happen and is happening all over the place, and not just limited to FPV.

But of course the media jump on the bandwagon with just a whisper of info and essentially no further facts and just throw more fuel on the fire.

Just to share this thought for a supposedly high flying industry, resources, I have a family member involved in executive recruitment and one of their consultants had 14 positions to fill just for this one company, these were senior management/executive positions only, these are positions that need to be filled for future company growth...fast forward one month and it's now 2 positions and one is because someoone quit...even resources is scaling back, it just hasn't hit the the mainstream news yet.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by davway

Seems some just dont get it.
Who said he had to buy a car without test driving it?
They offered to get the car in for him to test drive - they just asked for a deposit so they know he is serious.
Yes, they do have trade plates so i dont know the reason for not wanting to take the black Clubby.
Maybe it was in the showroom, maybe the buyer looked like a dero straight from the ghetto - who knows - who really cares.
My vehicle purchase history is irrelevant.
I was merely pointing out how someone who was complaining about poor service, really was offered everything but.

Sounds to me more like it was the end of the month and the salesman had met his quota for bonus...

To not have an SS variant of some description in the dealership is impossible, whether it be a ute, sedan, wagon, SSV, Redline etc. Doesn't really make sense in the current climate, these guys are very hungry, they are starving in fact.

All I can say is dealers in QLD must be alot hungrier, I have been looking for a new dual cab ute for our business and have been thrown keys for a drive every dealer I went to except for one Ford dealer, who just ignored me even though they all seen me drive in my FG GT sedan.... Not even knowing I wanted a Ranger, I could have wanted another GT for all they knew, which they had about 5 sitting out the front rusting away.

[barra240t]

Originally Posted by Cashie

I wasn't going to post here but thought since I have owned 2 FGs, 5 BA/BFs and 4 VEs (Holden and HSV) in the last 9 years, I might have an opinion.
I only buy used cars and am not overly brand loyal (I buy the car that best suits my budget and requirements).
Being a used car buyer puts a different spin on things, if I want a used large Aussie built V8 sedan, that looks like the current model and is value buying, I am almost always going to choose a VE SS/SSV/Calais (model has been out since 06 and used models can be picked up far cheaper than a FG), also, FG XR8s are thin on the ground.
If I want a 6 cylinder, IMO the FG is the only used Aussie large car worth buying for the money (ZF and I6 are standouts IMO).
If I am after an FPV or HSV (which my next car most likely will be), I have a feeling I will be getting a HSV E Series II. Good buying ATM, cheaper than a Coyote FG, and if I ask the wife (which I will have to ), she thinks the HSV looks more like a performance car and less like the family car it is based on (I love the FG II's with the coyote, but she may be right, the FPVs don't have enough outside to differentiate them)...
Having said all that, my current car I'm keeping an eye on used prices of is an FG F6......

It's funny because the F6 is probably the most understated looking performance car out of all the cars you have been talking about?

[brett7777]

http://au.linkedin.com/pub/rod-barrett/38/83b/422

[BOOSTEDGAZ]

Regarding the finance and dealership side of things i don't know about Oz but as someone who has just recently purchased a new 335 GT in NZ i can honestly say a big part of the reason they are not selling in NZ is crap dealership service compared to the HSV's etc.
I made the decision that it was time to upgrade my BF GTP (mint black GTP 48000Kms) to a new 335 GT. Started to look around. I wont name the dealerships but they are all FPV dealers. I turned up at my local FPV dealership met a salesman - after 20mins walking around the yard looking for one. Explained that i wanted to trade my BF GTP and was interested in orgainising a test drive of a GT and an F6. The dealer took one look at me like you can't afford that and proceeded to tell me they do not do test drives the only way i could drive one was to be preaprooved for finance and to put a deposit down. I explained that i did not need finance and was still told i would have to put a deposit down before i could drive one. 2 dealerships later i found a salesman who was actually interested and orgainised a test drive for me.
Upon deciding it was the GT for me i started looking for who can offer the best deal. My local dealership had a GT they offered to me for 74000 with a good trade yet 1 week later when i contacted them to pursue further they told me the buyer they had lined up or my car decided not to go ahaed and they could not do the GT for 74 it was now 79 and tried to take 5000 of the trade they had offered to me, even though thet had given me a written quote - needless to say i walked away. Of the 4 other dealerships only 2 really bent over backwards to make a deal the other 2 were down right slack. It was almost like they were doing me a favour selling me a GT. The differance in prices for the new GT varied by 8k and the trade in deals varied by 8 - 10k and 1 in particular was down right insulting.
I can honestly say if i was not the loyal FPV fan that i am i would have told them to stick it and brought a HSV (the thought sends shivers down my spine!!)
Comparing that to recently when i helped a friend to purchase a HSV every Holden yard we went to rolled out the red carpet, offered test drives of everything and offered finance deals and service to boot and really made you feel that they wanted your sale.
Here lies were i think alot of the problems in NZ are with FPV sales crap service from dealers and not pushing sales and making you feel like a valued customer.
Yes i will admit the yard i bought through in the end (Courtesy Ford - Fielding) were awesome and have been great to deal with but this was one of 5 yards i looked at and i can honestly say of the other 4, 1 was good, 1 was OK and 2 particulaly my local were crap. It was almost like "we are the only FPV dealer in town so who else are you going to go through". As i said if i was a first time FPV buyer i would have walked away and would not be driving one now.
The reality is if i am going to spend 70k plus on a car than i expect service and to be treated accordingly this is what FPV and Ford should be looking at. It dosn't matter how greater product you have - and it is a great product if you don't maket it and look after your buyers you will not make the sales. Brand loyalty will only sell so many cars.
I know i am not the only persoon who has come across this as 2 guys i work with decided it was time to buy V8's and are driving HSV's because the service and deals were just so much better.
As i said i am a loyal Ford fan and no matter how much of a better deal you would not get me in a Holden but there are alot of buyers out there who are not brand loyal and are looking for the best package / deal and FPV are dropping the ball in this area.
Gaz

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by GTGAZ

Regarding the finance and dealership side of things i don't know about Oz but as someone who has just recently purchased a new 335 GT in NZ i can honestly say a big part of the reason they are not selling in NZ is crap dealership service compared to the HSV's etc.
I made the decision that it was time to upgrade my BF GTP (mint black GTP 48000Kms) to a new 335 GT. Started to look around. I wont name the dealerships but they are all FPV dealers. I turned up at my local FPV dealership met a salesman - after 20mins walking around the yard looking for one. Explained that i wanted to trade my BF GTP and was interested in orgainising a test drive of a GT and an F6. The dealer took one look at me like you can't afford that and proceeded to tell me they do not do test drives the only way i could drive one was to be preaprooved for finance and to put a deposit down. I explained that i did not need finance and was still told i would have to put a deposit down before i could drive one. 2 dealerships later i found a salesman who was actually interested and orgainised a test drive for me.
Upon deciding it was the GT for me i started looking for who can offer the best deal. My local dealership had a GT they offered to me for 74000 with a good trade yet 1 week later when i contacted them to pursue further they told me the buyer they had lined up or my car decided not to go ahaed and they could not do the GT for 74 it was now 79 and tried to take 5000 of the trade they had offered to me, even though thet had given me a written quote - needless to say i walked away. Of the 4 other dealerships only 2 really bent over backwards to make a deal the other 2 were down right slack. It was almost like they were doing me a favour selling me a GT. The differance in prices for the new GT varied by 8k and the trade in deals varied by 8 - 10k and 1 in particular was down right insulting.
I can honestly say if i was not the loyal FPV fan that i am i would have told them to stick it and brought a HSV (the thought sends shivers down my spine!!)
Comparing that to recently when i helped a friend to purchase a HSV every Holden yard we went to rolled out the red carpet, offered test drives of everything and offered finance deals and service to boot and really made you feel that they wanted your sale.
Here lies were i think alot of the problems in NZ are with FPV sales crap service from dealers and not pushing sales and making you feel like a valued customer.
Yes i will admit the yard i bought through in the end (Courtesy Ford - Fielding) were awesome and have been great to deal with but this was one of 5 yards i looked at and i can honestly say of the other 4, 1 was good, 1 was OK and 2 particulaly my local were crap. It was almost like "we are the only FPV dealer in town so who else are you going to go through". As i said if i was a first time FPV buyer i would have walked away and would not be driving one now.
The reality is if i am going to spend 70k plus on a car than i expect service and to be treated accordingly this is what FPV and Ford should be looking at. It dosn't matter how greater product you have - and it is a great product if you don't maket it and look after your buyers you will not make the sales. Brand loyalty will only sell so many cars.
I know i am not the only persoon who has come across this as 2 guys i work with decided it was time to buy V8's and are driving HSV's because the service and deals were just so much better.
As i said i am a loyal Ford fan and no matter how much of a better deal you would not get me in a Holden but there are alot of buyers out there who are not brand loyal and are looking for the best package / deal and FPV are dropping the ball in this area.
Gaz

MATE THAT IS GREAT , if i were you perhaps it might be worth driving your GT into the dealership that told you you cant buy one unless your financial blah blah blah , and park it out the front , and walk in and see the dealer principle , and tell him who and what was said when you tried to purchase one off them .