Covid 19 -

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Look at that clip, she's there with the phone out being condescending towards Police with the cub holding onto her, what do you think is going to happen?

I reckon she's had the kid there as a political tool, I've got the little one with me they won't arrest me so she goes to try rub it in their faces until it backfires and another woman is the one who ends up arresting her.

Is the kid now going to end up in the custody of DOCS?

The thing with protests is they can go from peaceful to not peaceful in an instant, you can feel the environment in any of these situations, everyone's on edge and its the perfect climate for things to escalate out of control.

Yep, She pushed and pushed like she was wanting the police to take action and they did. Good on them.
As you say, don't care what they are protesting about, just don't use little kids to make your point. She is the one who put that kid in a volatile situation not the cops.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by guzzis3

I saw the map after I answered the post. I can't believe the Towers aren't included.

FC yes just like the football (?) players who kicked when the executive wanted them to take a 50% cut but gave themselves a 30% cut. Do as I say.... public service wages are still a disgrace though. Politicians salaries should be set in teh constitution as a fixed multiple of the national average wage, 1 - 1.5 sliding scale. Obviously it'll never happen. Afterall it's our money they are spending...

I'm in two minds about politicians wages, in some respects they're probably on the low end.

Imagine if you're someone whose at the top of their game in the finance industry, you're highly skilled and getting towards the pointy end of the ladder with the three letter titles and the money is multiples of 6 figures or even into 7 figures.

Would you step backwards financially and go into politics, you'd probably be an ace treasurer but the money on offer isn't that attractive?

Maybe you're in the finance industry but you're not that great skills wise and sort of stagnating career wise, politics is attractive because of the coin that's on offer is significantly higher than you get now?

Then on the other hand maybe if it's scaled on the average wage you'll get people who are in it for the country and people rather than the money?

The problem is politics isn't based on skill, it's a popularity contest based around how good your social skills are to schmooze your way into preselection for a major party in an electorate and hiding any dirt from the media and your own party who wants to throw you under the bus at any given opportunity.

I did some training with the ALP after working on the 2014 election campaign in VIC and one of the first things they taught us was looking through opposition and their friends social media profiles digging for dirt, one example they gave was from an LNP candidates friends social media with a 20+ year old photo of a Nazi salute - it was enough that saw said candidate removed.

Oh and out of a few hundred selected for further training the only trades people there was myself and a hair dresser from Frankston, everyone else was uni students studying law or lawyers.

It's allowed because we've got a populace who avoid politics at all costs, Australia hasn't really faced significant adversity through it's short history, unlike other parts of the world, which is a double edged sword, we've never had to spill blood for independence or the right to vote for example.

While this is fantastic it's also created the current issues around government being a bit lackluster.

To give it perspective, talk to someone who lived under fascism or communism who now lives in Australia, ask them what they think over crackdown on freedom of speech, freedom of movement, right to protest and giving law enforcement far reaching powers.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

That's what they want, think about it, jobkeeper pays $1308 after tax, centrelink with covid supplement is $1100 tax free, so those getting jobkeeper only get $200 more per fortnight and might have to work for it, jobseeker recipients don't have to do anything as they get an exemption from looking for work.

It doesn't work that way, an employee on Job Keeper keeps getting paid their regular wage. The business is paid the job keeper payment to subsidise keeping staff on.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I'm in two minds about politicians wages, in some respects they're probably on the low end.

Imagine if you're someone whose at the top of their game in the finance industry, you're highly skilled and getting towards the pointy end of the ladder with the three letter titles and the money is multiples of 6 figures or even into 7 figures.

Would you step backwards financially and go into politics, you'd probably be an ace treasurer but the money on offer isn't that attractive?

.

More on this, we lost one of our electrical engineers to the finance industry, even if you're not the traditional accountant, if you've got a degree in a maths based science such as various engineering branches you're in with a chance in the talent pool of the finance industry, they'll also offer attractive wages for the best and this industry ends up sapping all the talent for the sake of their name on your CV and or the money.

You need to offer money to retain or attract skill and the finance industry appears to get pick of the litter.

[Franco Cozzo]

Here's an interesting article by The Age, Its an interview with a few people who have been laid off and are now on benefits:

https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...04-p54pqy.html

We've got:

A Melbourne Symphony Orchestra conductor

An operations manager from a bar in Melbourne

An owner of a boxing gym in North Melbourne

An $800-$1200/hour Melbourne escort

Price begins at $30,000 per month with a minimum of three months. Payment upfront month by month.

I guess not too many on the books for this level of service lol

[guzzis3]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I'm in two minds about politicians wages, in some respects they're probably on the low end.

Your perspective is valid of course but I see it differently.

The westminster system is specifically designed so politicians DON'T have to be expert in anything. Remember the original parliaments were aristocrat farmers.

In teh 60's when I was born, our PM got 1.5 times the average salary. Now it's almost 6 isn't it ? So you are arguing today's politicians are 4x better than the ones we had in the 60's. Go ahead, tell me that story

The disincentive to go into politics is not the money. Plenty of people rolling in $$ would happily sacrifice their income and do it for free. Some people don't have that luxury, hence the living wage. They problem as you pointed out is the environment. The electorate treat politicians like dirt, no thanks for doing anything right and limitless howls of protest against everything they disagree with, and this from the imbeciles who elected them in the first place. It's created parliaments filled with teh most horrible people because no one with any feelings at all would subject themselves to the invasion of privacy, the backstabbing, the corruption.

In a democracy you get the government you deserve, always, but cutting their wages we can get it at a lower cost

[GasoLane]

Whilst the topic of politicians salaries compared to the general public is positively riveting, could we stick to the original topic please.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by tweeked

It doesn't work that way, an employee on Job Keeper keeps getting paid their regular wage. The business is paid the job keeper payment to subsidise keeping staff on.

Umm, I know, I said the same thing pages ago but that depends on what the original wage was, if it was equal or less than the jobkeeper subsidy then what I said is accurate, so too if the employer has been put on reduced hours in line with the payment.
Remember, only business with reduced turnover are eligible for Jobkeeper so many have been forced to reduce employee hours anyway.

My employer has put us on Jobkeeper, but a few didn't want to receive it and instead went on Jobseeker, they would have needed to do 40hrs per fortnight to receive the jobkeeper and clear $1308, instead they're staying home and getting $1100 per fortnight.
How many people will put their hand up to work 40hrs a fortnight for $208 more than they can get doing nothing..

Having said that, should have seen the dummy spits when those who elected not to receive it found out us who did got back paid 4 weeks in one lump sum and they only just started getting their Jobseeker without backpay.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by prydey

I don't think so. It's better to have a job. These incentives are only for a few months. Much better to be employed even if it seems attractive to be on the dole in the short term.

I do, I've seen it first hand.

You cant apply a common answer to this as what is happening is anything but common practice and every situation is different.
When this is all over and industry returns to normal I can assure you many employers will take back their previous employee's if they're worth having as its easier to re engage them than train someone new.

[Citroënbender]

I saw an ABC news article on the sorts of things people are looking forward to potentially doing again - sometime after we are all declared at much lower risk of pandemic transmission.

For me, being able to amble along bush tracks in some of the parks that are presently closed, will be nice. To travel, visit interstate will be good. Hugging close friends, definitely a big thing.

[Citroënbender]

Pinched from Reddit Dad Jokes:

What’s the difference between Covid 19 and Romeo & Juliet?
..One’s a Corona virus and the other’s a Verona crisis.

[zipping]

US intelligence agencies are reportedly examining mobile phone data suggesting there could have been an emergency shutdown in October at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

According to a report, obtained by NBC News, there was no mobile phone activity in a high-security part of the Chinese laboratory complex from October 7 to 24. Previously, there had been consistent use of mobile phones.

Experts urged caution, suggesting the report may be based on limited commercially available mobile phone data, and that there could be other reasons for varying levels of phone usage.

However, the document could be what Donald Trump was referring to when he recently said he had seen evidence giving him a “high degree of confidence” the pandemic began accidentally at the Wuhan laboratory.

The prevailing theory is that the virus originated in bats and crossed over to humans at a market in Wuhan.

[russellw]

12 new cases in Australia, mostly in Victoria but no deaths. The CMR improved to 1.397% and active cases to 9.8%.

2 new cases for NZ but no deaths so the CMR improves to 1.406% and active cases to 6.9%.

Just under 4k new cases for the UK but under 300 deaths so the CMR improves to 14.534% while active cases rises to 85.2%.

Just over 25k new cases in the USA but the CMR dropped to 5.941% and active cases to 75.3%.

Russia continues to have more than 10k new cases / day and has now passed the 200k mark.

[Cav]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Pinched from Reddit Dad Jokes:

Yeah

One’s a pandemic disaster, the other’s Iambic pentameter

Pinched also.

[guzzis3]

Originally Posted by Cav

Yeah

One’s a pandemic disaster, the other’s Iambic pentameter

Pinched also.

Oow, now you usin' yur grown up words...

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by zipping

US intelligence agencies are reportedly examining mobile phone data suggesting there could have been an emergency shutdown in October at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

According to a report, obtained by NBC News, there was no mobile phone activity in a high-security part of the Chinese laboratory complex from October 7 to 24. Previously, there had been consistent use of mobile phones.

That the US is monitoring mobile phones in China is not surprising. They would not have needed the Chinese to notify them of the pandemic, they would have known about it from phone intercepts. The intelligence services did say they warned the President early in January but he doesn't read the daily briefings.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020...-briefings-pdb

[zipping]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

That the US is monitoring mobile phones in China is not surprising. They would not have needed the Chinese to notify them of the pandemic, they would have known about it from phone intercepts. The intelligence services did say they warned the President early in January but he doesn't read the daily briefings.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020...-briefings-pdb

You get your news from a mostly entertainment monthly?

Anyway, as I posted previously, Trump (against advice and was the first to move) banned travel from China to the US on Jan 31st came into effect Feb 2nd.

If he didn't read or listen to briefings......why did he take this action?

Look I get it, you don't like Trump but can you refrain from juvenile arguments such as Trump doesn't take briefings, it adds nothing to the thread except that you take gossip as fact.

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Umm, I know, I said the same thing pages ago but that depends on what the original wage was, if it was equal or less than the jobkeeper subsidy then what I said is accurate, so too if the employer has been put on reduced hours in line with the payment.
Remember, only business with reduced turnover are eligible for Jobkeeper so many have been forced to reduce employee hours anyway.

My employer has put us on Jobkeeper, but a few didn't want to receive it and instead went on Jobseeker, they would have needed to do 40hrs per fortnight to receive the jobkeeper and clear $1308, instead they're staying home and getting $1100 per fortnight.
How many people will put their hand up to work 40hrs a fortnight for $208 more than they can get doing nothing..

Having said that, should have seen the dummy spits when those who elected not to receive it found out us who did got back paid 4 weeks in one lump sum and they only just started getting their Jobseeker without backpay.

I guess the $208 sorts out the ones that want to work,from the ones that would rather bludge off the taxpayer

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

I guess the $208 sorts out the ones that want to work,from the ones that would rather bludge off the taxpayer

No doubt, im not saying its right or wrong, im simply saying its an option people are taking because they can.

[zipping]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

I guess the $208 sorts out the ones that want to work,from the ones that would rather bludge off the taxpayer

Many people think that the economy will be flicked back on just like we would turn a car off and on again. This leads them to making short term decisions around employment issues, hence some people have refused to go on Jobkeeper, probably because of $208 difference in the expectation that jobs will be available soon. But unfortunately economies don’t work like that—switching on won’t be nearly as easy as many assume.

[russellw]

50 of the 212 countries that have had at least a single case are continuing to increase the number of active cases they have which is the reverse of what you'd like to see.

Those still significantly on the increase include:

Afghanistan. Didn't start seeing any real numbers until late March but it was still >50/day. The 5-day moving average has been increasing ever since and is now over 200/day.

Armenia. Had small numbers in March with only a slight increase in the early part of April but since the 3rd week in April it has been climbing and the 5DMA is now >100 cases / day.

Bahrain. Went through March and early April with a moving average rate below 50/day but is now over 240/day.

Brazil. I know we've looked at in depth before but it's not improving. It was bad enough in April with a 5 day moving average of ~2,400/day but it's currently more than 9,000/day and getting worse.

Chile. Another one that was bad enough with a 5DMA over 400/day in April but it's over 1,300/day now and still getting worse.

India. Has had cases about as long as most but the 5DMA was 1,300/day in mid April and it is now > 3,500 although it might be flattening a little.

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by zipping

Many people think that the economy will be flicked back on just like we would turn a car off and on again. This leads them to making short term decisions around employment issues, hence some people have refused to go on Jobkeeper, probably because of $208 difference in the expectation that jobs will be available soon. But unfortunately economies don’t work like that—switching on won’t be nearly as easy as many assume.

First time posting in this thread, but been lurking reading everyones comments.

Zipping - I agree, those who have chosen to stay home and receive the Jobseeker benefits because they prefer not to work harder for the added $208 may think they will get their old job back, but I have read that some companies and businesses are looking at the changes they have had to make over the past 2-3 months and adjusting their business setup to be just as manageable with less staff moving forward. Some are thinking a business model with Zoom meetings and limited face to face contact is the way to go, therefore potentially laying off the previous staff numbers to more skeleton staff to maintain similar outcomes pre-Covid.

With this thinking, we could see employment take a lot longer to recover after the hand outs are done with.

[Tickford.]

Victorian restrictions have been eased, to take effect from 11:59pm on Tuesday 12/05/20.


New rules apply until 11:59pm 31st May 2020.

• You may have up to five visitors in your home
  
  
• You can leave the house to meet family and friends
  
  
• You can catch up in groups of 10 outdoors, provided physical distancing is applied
  
  
• Up to 20 mourners can attend funerals indoors, or 30 if they are outdoors
  
  
• If the funeral is inside a home, then the five-person limit applies
  
  
• Up to 10 guests can attend weddings, in addition to the couple and celebrant
  
  
• Cafes and restaurants remain restricted to takeaway service only
  
  
• Private worship ceremonies of up to 10 people are permitted, plus those needed to run the service
  
  
• Hairdressers remain open, provided physical distancing is followed
  
  
• No camping in state or national parks (day trips only)
  
  
• Hostels are open for accommodation, but attached restaurants and cafes are closed
  
  
• Retail stores remain open, with 4 square metres per person limits indoors
  
  
• Auction houses may operate, with 10 people and the minimum number required to run the auction
  
  
• Open house inspections may be held, with a 10-person limit
  
  
• Casinos must "maintain baseline restrictions on bars and gaming rooms"
  
  
• Community facilities can host essential public support service or support services (e.g. alcohol and drug support meetings, parents' groups, youth groups)

[MITCHAY]

It is very short sighted to stay at home and claim JobSeeker instead of going to work on JobKeeper if you can in my opinion.

Both are supposed to be short term measures. There is already talk of them changing it.

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

It is very short sighted to stay at home and claim JobSeeker instead of going to work on JobKeeper if you can in my opinion.

Both are supposed to be short term measures. There is already talk of them changing it.

I agree, but I have heard of a number of people take this preference through friends and I was perplexed at the shortsightedness of this way of thinking.

[russellw]

.. and NSW has also gone part-way to easing restrictions from Friday.

Allowed will be:

• Outdoor gatherings of up to 10 people.
• Visits to a household of up to 5 people.
• Cafes and restaurants can seat 10 patrons at any one time.
• Weddings will be allowed to have up to 10 guests.
• Funerals can accommodate up to 20 mourners indoors and 30 outdoors.
• Religious gatherings and places of worship will be allowed up to 10 people.
• Outdoor gyms and playgrounds will open and outdoor pools with restrictions.

Travel restrictions will remain in place.

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by zipping

You get your news from a mostly entertainment monthly?

Anyway, as I posted previously, Trump (against advice and was the first to move) banned travel from China to the US on Jan 31st came into effect Feb 2nd.

If he didn't read or listen to briefings......why did he take this action?

Look I get it, you don't like Trump but can you refrain from juvenile arguments such as Trump doesn't take briefings, it adds nothing to the thread except that you take gossip as fact.

Not that I care but many countries in the world moved before the USA.

https://www.thinkglobalhealth.org/ar...a-due-covid-19

Mr Trump has been criticised for not moving sooner, he had all the information weeks before he moved. So he claimed he moved first (a lie) to answer his critics.

Instead of making it about himself he should have pointed out the facts.

The USA is one of the world’s great democracies. As such it is not beholden to one person to make decisions in a crisis.

The public service kicked into action before Mr Trump lifted a finger. The CDC was monitoring arrivals from Wuhan and checking temperatures weeks before the travel ban was imposed. The USA acted prompty and correctly with the information that was know at the time.

This is the information Mr Trump should have reassured the American people with.

[Tickford.]

I heard something today in regards to this JobKeeper payments scheme, and that being most first and second year apprentices, are now earning a higher weekly wage than third year apprentices!

How is that fair to a third year apprentice?

Is this really the case?

[cs123]

Originally Posted by Work Horse

Not that I care but many countries in the world moved before the USA.

https://www.thinkglobalhealth.org/ar...a-due-covid-19

Mr Trump has been criticised for not moving sooner, he had all the information weeks before he moved. So he claimed he moved first (a lie) to answer his critics.

Instead of making it about himself he should have pointed out the facts.

The USA is one of the world’s great democracies. As such it is not beholden to one person to make decisions in a crisis.

The public service kicked into action before Mr Trump lifted a finger. The CDC was monitoring arrivals from Wuhan and checking temperatures weeks before the travel ban was imposed. The USA acted prompty and correctly with the information that was know at the time.

This is the information Mr Trump should have reassured the American people with.

Yup, wasn't the first to move and all the advice from his people was to do it.

He's a compulsive liar.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

I heard something today in regards to this JobKeeper payments scheme, and that being most first and second year apprentices, are now earning a higher weekly wage than third year apprentices!

How is that fair to a third year apprentice?

Is this really the case?

It's not specific to apprentices. Some people are earning more and some are earning less because the employer has to pay at least $1500 per fortnight before tax to be eligible.

It's not perfect but it's what was done to enable a quick roll out while trying to keep costs down I imagine. I think it is roughly minimum wage per week.