Holden closure

[Express]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Profoundly sad news.

As a Kiwi over the last 15 years I've bought 7 brand new Austrlaian cars, most have been very good, quite why Australians seem to by and large have abandoned buying their own cars is something I struggle to come to terms with to be honest.

Quite why Australians thought their own cars arn't up to scratch and showed such a low level of loyalty.......................and we will all be so much poorer for it.

How did it all go so terribly wrong

One thing I did notice from the comments of people around me at the time the VE came out was a general feeling the Commodore had been left behind by the superior kit in the Jap/Euro imports. I would believe if the people I knew were picking up on this then no doubt the whole buying public were also seeing the same.

I bought a new VE Calais V and a Clubsport when they were released and was very disappointed in the lack of offerings in creature comforts compared to my friend’s cars given the amount of money I had paid. Still I bought them for their V8’s and reluctantly had no choice but to live with it.

A bit later on I made arrangements with my local Holden shop to purchase a W427 and the Dealer Principal gave me his for a few hours to test drive. It had been lowered and as I walked up to it I thought what a great looking car. The moment I opened the driver’s door I knew I’d never shell out the money they were asking for a car that was so bare boned even compared to a cheap Asian Compact let alone the C63, M3 or RS4.

There lays the problem. At a time when the Jap/Euros were pouring on the features, customers of the bread and butter Commodore models would have seen better value for money (not to be confused with a better built or engineered car) in the cheaper imports. And as any manufacturer will tell you, once the customer experiences another brand and they like it, it is hard to get their focus back.

Customers turned their back on the lack lustre features of the Commodore in late 2000 and were happy with their new found purchases and never bothered to look back. The VF came too late to rectify this, its fate and perception had already been sealed.

That’s my slant on it. Good cars were let down by not keeping pace with the creature comforts most people love. If the buying public were all performance enthusiasts Ford and Holden would out sell everything on the market but most people care little about performance and those things that mean less to us killed these two brands.


.

[karj]

Does anyone else find it bizarre that the AMEP has been completely silent on this issue?

I've had a quick look online and can't find any statement from them or Ricky Muir. Elected on a motoring platform, but it seems they have got nothing to say about the biggest shake-up the industry has seen in the last 60 years...

[2011G6E]

Seeing as how these guys (and Ford employees) have multiple years notice that the place will most likely be closing, why are they demanding the government does something to "help them" and "support them"?

Sorry, but people lose their jobs every day...today the average worker doesn't stay in the one job very long (60% have been in the same job less than 5 years), so what do they expect? Jobs for life? Not anymore, and not for an awful long time in any other industry.
Time to start planning for a career change...but you shouldn't expect the government (taxpayers actually) to give you more support or some special deal that no other worker gets when their work finishes.

"Loyalty"...why? You can't force people to buy cars they simply don't want anymore. SUV's and twin cab utes and smaller cars are the commonest sections of the market now...people just don't want large sedans in profitable numbers. Car trends come and go...mostly "go"...and the publics vehicle needs change. If a car maker doesn't respond quickly enough to this or just ignores it, they do so at their peril.
Holden and Ford are both learning that...

[ZH For Me]

Even though I'm a blue-blooded Ford supporter through-and-through, it still saddens me to see that Holden are pulling the pin as well. I can't say I'm at all surprised by the developments, but it is still disheartening. Like them or hate them, Holden has been an integral part of the vehicle scene in Australia for well over double my lifetime. After Ford announced ceasing Australian-built vehicles, I, amongst many, many others, saw the writing on the wall for Holden, and call me crazy, but it feels like we're losing nostalgia. Bad enough we lose one of the three key producers, but now we've lost a second as well.

What will become of our racing scene now? I know, chances are Fords and GM will still be racing, but what will they be using? Its always been Commodores and Falcons since I was born, and I can't imagine it being any different.

To me, come 2017, Bathurst will never be the same again.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by karj

Does anyone else find it bizarre that the AMEP has been completely silent on this issue?

I've had a quick look online and can't find any statement from them or Ricky Muir. Elected on a motoring platform, but it seems they have got nothing to say about the biggest shake-up the industry has seen in the last 60 years...

Ricky is waiting for instructions from Clive - at this present time Ricky is in the process of breathing and that is all he is allowed to do.

What a waste of space!

[stevz]

Originally Posted by Express

One thing I did notice from the comments of people around me at the time the VE came out was a general feeling the Commodore had been left behind by the superior kit in the Jap/Euro imports. I would believe if the people I knew were picking up on this then no doubt the whole buying public were also seeing the same.

I bought a new VE Calais V and a Clubsport when they were released and was very disappointed in the lack of offerings in creature comforts compared to my friend’s cars given the amount of money I had paid. Still I bought them for their V8’s and reluctantly had no choice but to live with it.

A bit later on I made arrangements with my local Holden shop to purchase a W427 and the Dealer Principal gave me his for a few hours to test drive. It had been lowered and as I walked up to it I thought what a great looking car. The moment I opened the driver’s door I knew I’d never shell out the money they were asking for a car that was so bare boned even compared to a cheap Asian Compact let alone the C63, M3 or RS4.

There lays the problem. At a time when the Jap/Euros were pouring on the features, customers of the bread and butter Commodore models would have seen better value for money (not to be confused with a better built or engineered car) in the cheaper imports. And as any manufacturer will tell you, once the customer experiences another brand and they like it, it is hard to get their focus back.

Customers turned their back on the lack lustre features of the Commodore in late 2000 and were happy with their new found purchases and never bothered to look back. The VF came too late to rectify this, its fate and perception had already been sealed.

That’s my slant on it. Good cars were let down by not keeping pace with the creature comforts most people love. If the buying public were all performance enthusiasts Ford and Holden would out sell everything on the market but most people care little about performance and those things that mean less to us killed these two brands.


.

I'm sorry but I'm sick and tired of hearing this argument. What 'creature comforts' does an import have that an Aussie built car doesn't? Some fancy but useless gimmicks that will probably never be used once the novelty wears off?
You say a cheap asian imports has more kit than a W427? Whoopty do. Does your cheap asian import match it's performance credentials too? Not in a million years.
If playing with useless gimmicks is so important then go and visit a toy store.

[PepeLePew]

I think it's fair to say many PERFORMANCE buyers these days at least are driven to Falcon because they wish to buy an engine. Our turbo and V8 offerings are second to none. I bought the GS for it's powerplant, and skipped a helluva lot of kit in the VF to get it. Course I could've been steered away, nearly bought a turbo instead

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by vztrt

The price of Falcons really hasn't changed in the last 10 years and in some cases they have gotten cheaper. There have been cost cuts every were to try and reduce the loss. So items going into the Falcon/Terri really don't have the quality that they should have.
One example is the carpet in the FG, its absolute rubbish compared to the BA.

Unfortunately things need to suffer as the Falcon/Terri is not a worldwide car and costs can't be spread like they can on something like a Corolla,Focus,Ranger.

Errrr ... Nah ... I've owned both ... don't agree. If anything, the FG was better than the BA.

[GTP534]

Originally Posted by stevz

I'm sorry but I'm sick and tired of hearing this argument. What 'creature comforts' does an import have that an Aussie built car doesn't? Some fancy but useless gimmicks that will probably never be used once the novelty wears off?
You say a cheap asian imports has more kit than a W427? Whoopty do. Does your cheap asian import match it's performance credentials too? Not in a million years.
If playing with useless gimmicks is so important then go and visit a toy store.

What? People aren't allowed to have an opinion different to yours? What's important for some might not be important for others and vice versa.

[EgoFG]

please, let us not make this Lib Vss Lab

Both of them screwed us over

[jpd80]

Apparently Holden's engineering is to close too... this just gets better (not).

LINK


GENERAL Motors’ decision to axe most of its Holden engineers by the end of 2017 along with its manufacturing operations spells the death knell for Holden’s global vehicle engineering role in Australia.

Holden chairman and managing director Mike Devereux said today that although its engineering centre and proving ground will close, the company will look to use outside firms to tweak the suspension of its fully imported cars for Australian conditions.

“When we look at tuning vehicles to the road conditions, that can also be done in other engineering centres,” he told ABC radio.

“So to the extent that we retain that engineering centre (now) and wind it down over the next three to four years, we will also retain some amount of local tuning for the tastes of Australian consumers and to make sure that, no matter what, we continue to give Australian consumers cars that are ‘Holdens’.”

FYI, it's pretty common knowledge that Mark Reuss clashed with Former CEO Dan Akerson several times over product decisions
and in particular Holden's continued presence in Australia. Akerson wanted Holden gone for a while and Mary Barra's ascension
to CEO sealed that fate as she was an Akerson supporter in terms of economic reform and simplified business strategy.

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by johnydep

Easy said for someone that did not experience it.

People were losing there homes, business were closing down, cities were turning into ghost towns, wages were frozen, cost of living was increasing due to the high inflation rate, the high interest rate and the increase in taxes on every day goods.

Today's economic times are bad and they probably seem a lot worse than anything you've been through before, especially having gone through a prolonged boom, but like every boom there's a downturn.

History is not as boring as it seems. Check it out, you'll find a lot of evidence where past generations have gone through bad times and have said something like "nothing compares to what we are experiencing now". That's part true, because each time is different - circumstances, technology and people.

Ahhh Johnny .. you seem to be an ol' bugger too ... or at least "advanced middle aged?". Absolutely agree with your comment/s.

.. "have said something like "nothing compares to what we are experiencing now"." Hehehe ... It sounds remarkably like "You don't know what it's like to be a young person"

Like fads and fashions ... Economic cycles come .. and they go. Have done since man discovered he can profit from the work of another, and will continue to do so.

Now .. back to the Holden closure.

While I do find this news very sad, I do get a little(?) satisfaction, from the facial expressions of some of my Holden loving friends, who laughed at my choice of vehicle, when Ford announced their departure from manufacturing in Oz. They were so smug and believed that their great Australian vehicle was here to stay. Suck it up Richard Cranium.

[Wretched]

Well that is disappointing, I suppose they could use Ford's You Yang's proving ground and engineers

[Express]

Originally Posted by stevz

I'm sorry but I'm sick and tired of hearing this argument. What 'creature comforts' does an import have that an Aussie built car doesn't? Some fancy but useless gimmicks that will probably never be used once the novelty wears off?
You say a cheap asian imports has more kit than a W427? Whoopty do. Does your cheap asian import match it's performance credentials too? Not in a million years.
If playing with useless gimmicks is so important then go and visit a toy store.

I take a middle of the road open minded view to most things and I don’t expect anyone to agree with me, certainly not someone whose view leans one side or the other in the extreme.

Yes the cheap Asian import did have more kit than the W427 but for those in the market for one, many bought the C63, M3 or RS4 instead. Plus they were all as fast or faster, had heaps more tech and cheaper than the W427.

I don’t care if you are sick of hearing it or whether you can wrap your head around it or not, performance means zilch to most car buyers, kit means a lot. Useless gimmicks or whatever, in the market place majority rules.

I’ve privately out of my own pocket bought 7 new locally built cars in 8 years, I'm a big supporter of Aussie manufacturing, no need to kill the messenger.




.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Apparently Holden's engineering is to close too... this just gets better (not).




FYI, it's pretty common knowledge that Mark Reuss clashed with Former CEO Dan Akerson several times over product decisions
and in particular Holden's continued presence in Australia. Akerson wanted Holden gone for a while and Mary Barra's ascension
to CEO sealed that fate as she was an Akerson supporter in terms of economic reform and simplified business strategy.

I call dibs on Lang Lang

Jokes aside, getting rid of the engineers is a seriously bad move. Outside contractors... lemme guess, from India or China.

Government Motors has just signed their death certificate in Australia.

[XWGT]

4 years is a long time to transition to another job. You could actually complete a University degree and a professional year in that time. Seriously I do believe the impacts are being a tad overstated.

New playing field peoples. Choose your favourite import, live long and prosper.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by Express

I take a middle of the road open minded view to most things and I don’t expect anyone to agree with me, certainly not someone whose view leans one side or the other in the extreme.

Yes the cheap Asian import did have more kit than the W427 but for those in the market for one, many bought the C63, M3 or RS4 instead. Plus they were all as fast or faster, had heaps more tech and cheaper than the W427.

I don’t care if you are sick of hearing it or whether you can wrap your head around it or not, performance means zilch to most car buyers, kit means a lot. Useless gimmicks or whatever, in the market place majority rules.

I’ve privately out of my own pocket bought 7 new locally built cars in 8 years, I'm a big supporter of Aussie manufacturing, no need to kill the messenger.




.

I wasn't having a go at you personally and I apologise if it came across that way, but it is just frustrating that Aussie built cars ae constantly mocked for their lack of 'gadgets' when in reality they are just useless gimmicks which trick people into buying an inferior car.
What exactly is this 'kit' that makes cheap asian imports so much better?

[JG34JA]

Exactly that - those who went through the 1990's recession have seen the playing field tilted for 'boom' and tilted for 'bust'. Some copped the inflation of the 1970's after the boom before it... etc etc

In some ways it will be a good rebalance. If you actually produce or repair things, an industrial shed will no longer set you back $300,000 to $700,000 (my locale) so you can begin to operate business without a massive debt load before your income stream is solidified. Hopefully the local councils will reduce their rates. Power prices come down? The value of each $ in your pocket goes up as prices rebalance cheaper. People stop punting on houses and begin to make things for each other again. Interest rates eventually go up (Australia yet to reach lows; rest of world must go up) so the price of money has some respect again - artificially low rates just encourage mal-investment. AUD falls (by itself or managed) and our competitiveness returns - but a Thai holiday gets more expensive, so you stay home and work and save.

And for someone above who said Australians already work the longest hours in the world, it was a shock to see the City of London quiet on the streets until 8:45AM in bright sunshine!

[Mighty Reds]

Sorry Joe Blow we have to let you go, just make sure you clear your desk out and pick up your last pay slip by 2017.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by stevz

I'm sorry but I'm sick and tired of hearing this argument. What 'creature comforts' does an import have that an Aussie built car doesn't? Some fancy but useless gimmicks that will probably never be used once the novelty wears off?
You say a cheap asian imports has more kit than a W427? Whoopty do. Does your cheap asian import match it's performance credentials too? Not in a million years.
If playing with useless gimmicks is so important then go and visit a toy store.

"Performance credentials" that I am sure you will use every day when driving around (like to know how many W427's were actually used for anything except being polished once a week or driven steadily down to the coffee shop...), as opposed to "useless gimmicks" that you use every single day every single time you drive the car...?

Originally Posted by Mighty Reds

Sorry Joe Blow we have to let you go, just make sure you clear your desk out and pick up your last pay slip by 2017.

That about sums it up...Holden (and Ford) workers aren't turning up next monday morning to locked factory gates and a pink slip. I'm sure that's happened to more than a few people, or people you know, on this forum. I'm sure there are many people who would have loved a few years notice that they'll be out of a job rather than the normal couple of weeks...if that...everyone else gets.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by stevz

I'm sorry but I'm sick and tired of hearing this argument.

Clearly, since you obviously couldn't be bothered reading the countless times objective evidence was provided that it was in fact true.

I don't know a single person who's owned a falcadore, then gone to jap/euro, and not been impressed by the spec.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by b0son

Clearly, since you obviously couldn't be bothered reading the countless times objective evidence was provided that it was in fact true.

I don't know a single person who's owned a falcadore, then gone to jap/euro, and not been impressed by the spec.

Or even something else in the Ford range.

[duaned]

Originally Posted by stevz

You say a cheap asian imports has more kit than a W427? Whoopty do. Does your cheap asian import match it's performance credentials too? Not in a million years.
If playing with useless gimmicks is so important then go and visit a toy store.

Attitude lad! Anyways just look at what matters most in car industry. Sales! Clearly performance orientated cars are what most people DO NOT WANT! The sales charts prove this. Having a fast car is great, but the general public want value, not 0-100kms in 5 seconds!

[bigwil]

Can anyone remember the front page of the Herald Sun the day after Ford announced they were closing, it had BETRAYAL , and this week with Holden all it had on the front page was out they go or something like that even though they received nearly twice the amount of money that Ford got, plus a few pages of Holdens from the last 65 years.

[Falcman0o7]

I feel for the workers and familys but holden can screw themselves....Oh they did.
All i've heard is holden holden holden....like they are a GOD.
90% of thier cars are overseas rubbish anyway.
GOOD BYE!

[superyob]

Originally Posted by b0son

Clearly, since you obviously couldn't be bothered reading the countless times objective evidence was provided that it was in fact true.

I don't know a single person who's owned a falcadore, then gone to jap/euro, and not been impressed by the spec.

Hypothetical scenario (and I am not trying to be smart here) - I am going to trade in my old ZD for a new Jap/Euro... What gadgets will they have that are so important that would impress me? To be fair I'll reveal that I am not tech savvy and have no interest in gadgets. What is it exactly that causes the motoring public to define their automotive preferences by the amount of 'shiny things'?

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by GCRXR6

Ahhh Johnny .. you seem to be an ol' bugger too ... or at least "advanced middle aged?". Absolutely agree with your comment/s.

.. "have said something like "nothing compares to what we are experiencing now"." Hehehe ... It sounds remarkably like "You don't know what it's like to be a young person"

Like fads and fashions ... Economic cycles come .. and they go. Have done since man discovered he can profit from the work of another, and will continue to do so.

Now .. back to the Holden closure.

While I do find this news very sad, I do get a little(?) satisfaction, from the facial expressions of some of my Holden loving friends, who laughed at my choice of vehicle, when Ford announced their departure from manufacturing in Oz. They were so smug and believed that their great Australian vehicle was here to stay. Suck it up Richard Cranium.

The later. My teenage kids sometimes pop out "You don't know what it's like to be a young person". If they only knew I

[stevz]

Originally Posted by superyob

Hypothetical scenario (and I am not trying to be smart here) - I am going to trade in my old ZD for a new Jap/Euro... What gadgets will they have that are so important that would impress me? To be fair I'll reveal that I am not tech savvy and have no interest in gadgets. What is it exactly that causes the motoring public to define their automotive preferences by the amount of 'shiny things'?

I think people have become so infatuated with technology that they are forgetting that 100% of their attention needs to be focused on the road while driving, not playing around with silly gadgets.
This is so typical of Gen WHY... They can't even take a dump without having their Iphone in their hand and bragging about it on facebook.

Technology has its place.... but some people take it to the extreme.

[Sprint]

I picture the future of Australia to be like Mad Max but with liberal zombies.

[ryeman]

Were Holden goes so goes the LPG industry, both dedicated and conversions.
Outside of the odd petrol Patrol frinstance ...... And who's going to do the heavy lifting for so few specific vehicles. Then it will be gas bowsers and the entire infrastructure .....do the Feds realise or care?
,,,WHAT A DISASTER FCOL!