BF Specs and Combined Threads

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by Aussie Pete

I should stop being so negative.... :hihi:

Yeah it'd help !

[Deadman]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

I dunno which would be more popular. A power increase say of about 20-30kw or the 6spd auto.

Hmm.. I can see a poll coming on about this around October :p

I personally would love the auto upgrade over any power upgrade - because it allows those who want to tune their cars to have a box that can handle much more torque! Great for FPV and XR owners alike. Saves worrying about gearbox internals as much as with the current transmission.

Anyhow, just my 2c

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by Ford_Falcon_XR6

Hmm.. I can see a poll coming on about this around October :p

I personally would love the auto upgrade over any power upgrade - because it allows those who want to tune their cars to have a box that can handle much more torque! Great for FPV and XR owners alike. Saves worrying about gearbox internals as much as with the current transmission.

Anyhow, just my 2c

hands you a cigar for thinking!!

[MITCHAY]

Yeah i would say 6spd auto aswell because you could easily mod it to get the extra kws if you want that.

[bathurst77]

I cant get over all the people slagging off ford saying the new model is a let down coz it dont look much different to the BA.

How different to look at was EA to EB. XD to XE. XR to XT, XW to XY, Xa to XB etc to look at? And the same follows for most interim release Commies and magnas.. all cars really.
When you look back at Falcons down the years, you see for each bodyshell they do 1 major facelift (XM,XW,XC,XF,EF BA) and 1 or two small changes to appearances (XY, XB, XE EB BF etc). Often the model with the least cosmetic changes have the most mechanical ones. This time they did the major cosmetic facelift first (Au-BA) and the small one later (BF).

I think its a great change. I would much rather they spent the $$ paying mechanical engineers to make the mechanical package better, rather than some pretty stylist poxing about with the shape of the lights or trim.

Instead of redisgned lights, we get more powerful engines, 6speed auto, better fuel economy, more goodies and a few other worthwhile upgrades. The BA/BF is a great looking car, why mess with it?

So to all you people who say it should look heaps different to the old model, how much more are you willing to pay or what features can you live without to pay for the design studio costs?

Well said bathurst77.

Don't be surprised to find that the BOSS260 is actually a BOSS270+ when dynoed. Forget the figures, drive it and then call it as it is I say.

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by RATT

Well said bathurst77.

Don't be surprised to find that the BOSS260 is actually a BOSS270+ when dynoed. Forget the figures, drive it and then call it as it is I say.

I know you have to flog em, but shush about stuff like that.... Sleepers are so much fun. :evilsasmo

Sleepers are fun yes. But a good brag is good too.

[ED Classic]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Hmm i reckon the 6spd auto is the best update of all. I think some people would prefer that over a power increase. I dunno which would be more popular. A power increase say of about 20-30kw or the 6spd auto.

Both would be preferble but what does everyone reckon if they had of had a choice in the matter.

When you say gets the Gen 4 does that mean in the state is now of 297kw. God damn even with the extra weight that it will get aswell thats a lot of power to help it move.

I am hearing of 270kw and nearly the torque of the current 297. The car is also said to be built to hold both the V8 and V6 lower to the ground for better gravity {handling,Braking etc}.

From a personall opinion I think 6 Auto is better than extra power if I could only have 1. First reason its easy to add power but not as easy to add a whole new Tranny aftermarket. Secondly the 6 speed Tranny promises to take all you can give it. Bassically Id prefer an effecient 290kw car doing 13.5 than an innefecient 320kw car doing 13.5. Having said this I hope theres some power aswell.

[MrSparkle]

An important point this one, and I think everyone might have missed it! From E-News yesterday, regarding the new auto..

"a mandatory fitting when the Barra 230 V8 engine is combined with either Falcon XT or Fairmont."

So it looks like the manual XT V8 is dead?

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by MrSparkle

An important point this one, and I think everyone might have missed it! From E-News yesterday, regarding the new auto..

"a mandatory fitting when the Barra 230 V8 engine is combined with either Falcon XT or Fairmont."

So it looks like the manual XT V8 is dead?

The T5 they had, they won't guarantee for the torque output, and it looks like they won't put the old 5spd TR3650 or the T56 in it. Probably going to be auto-only.

[Bluehoon]

Guys, The debate aside,

have a look at the tech stuff Russ posted about the new 6speed.
Very fascinating read, and one i enjoyed.
check it out......

Thanx Russ!!!!!

Oh, and it seems BF marks the end of the T5.....
Only 4 years late, but better late than never....

[merlin]

Re. The whole auto vs power debate.

I can see that the 6spd auto is a BIG thing for Ford and obviusoly a lot of peeps are exicted...and it will increase sales, BUT

What about those (such as me) that would NEVER buy an automatic car, no matter how good (read fast) it is? what do we get? after all they are supposed to be performance cars aimed at performance orientated drivers (who would prefer a manual) yes? no?

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

........
Often the model with the least cosmetic changes have the most mechanical ones. This time they did the major cosmetic facelift first (Au-BA) and the small one later (BF).
.........

I agree with most of what you said bathurst77 but I think you'd have to agree the introduction of the modular V8 in standard and BOSS configuration, along with the Barra 6 (NA and Turbo) and straightening out the rear frame rails to graft on the control blade rear suspension would qualify the BA upgrade as BOTH a major cosmetic and mechanical upgrade.

Had one engineer tell me that there were more changes from AU to BA than there was from EL to AU!

[Bluehoon]

Originally Posted by merlin

What about those (such as me) that would NEVER buy an automatic car, no matter how good (read fast) it is? what do we get? after all they are supposed to be performance cars aimed at performance orientated drivers (who would prefer a manual) yes? no?

See your point.
There is nothing i love more than a clutch.

Yet as this is my dialy driver, i love the auto for traffic.
I also am over the moon at the though of driving a 6 speed.

But most people are in my situation, pop the auto in manual mode and it does the trick for me...... :evil3:

In 10 years time, p plate drivers will wonder what 3 pedals and a clutch means...

Technology, emissions, performance, can be bundled into an auto....
Guess its a majority thing (sadly).

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Aussie Pete

Blah blah. So proof Ford spent all its money on territory and had stuff all to spend on BF. The stuff they did serves all the poofs who drive pooftermatics and TQEs. The V8 Boss gets nothing to even let it close the gap on Gen 3 let alone upcoming Gen 4 SS Commos.

Then Ford does a wonderful thing - they add a front bar that removes pretty much the only thing that differentiates FPV models from 50 yards and more from a lowly XR-TQE or XR-HAD depending how long you've been on the forums.

Nothing there for true enthusiasts. out: Looks like the accountants are back in force at Ford. Flagship cars win badge cred but we have a flagship called XR8 that they seem to want to watch die off in the face of XR-TQE-T which is the only thing they have above Holden at the moment.

Sorry Ford, not good enough. And whoever designed the XR front bar and added those flutes had better get a new guide dog.

Luckily BA was a good start. Otherwise we'd be cringing in the gutter. Just because you call it BF doesn't make it a new model.

I should stop being so negative.... :hihi:

Glad to see you haven't lost your form AP :

So they spent all the money on the Territory - good call Ford!

Thev'e made all the cars look alike - well it works for Holden.

The flagship car for the bogan brigade is driven by Marcos Ambrose - he's winning so Falcon's are selling again. I know that makes no sense to anyone that understands the game but that's reality.

The true enthusiasts by now should have realised the value and potential of the turbo 6 and dumped the nose heavy V8 models anyway, and what true enthusiast would find themselves a member of the LSUG ? (Yes, we have been on the forums a long time)

Originally Posted by ShockWaveXR6na

.......
For a guy whos probably wasted 50 K in depreciation in buying 2 Pursuits you make no sense.

Don't forget the heavily Herrod modded AU sedan before those 2 utes : oh well, to each his own......it's his money.

Ford aren't targeting the enthusiaist market.
Save your criticism for FPV.

[bathurst77]

Originally Posted by Raptor

I think you'd have to agree the introduction of the modular V8 in standard and BOSS configuration, along with the Barra 6 (NA and Turbo) and straightening out the rear frame rails to graft on the control blade rear suspension would qualify the BA upgrade as BOTH a major cosmetic and mechanical upgrade.

I thought of that while I wrote it,, thats why i said "often teh model..blah blah"
I noticed this too in Drive.com.au

"Bigger, more powerful brakes with firmer pedal feel"

So theres something for those who complain about the brakes (shudder etc)
New brakes.

[bathurst77]

Nothing for the true enthusiast AP?

no
except
More engine power and torque
6 speed auto
Bigger better brakes
improved suspension
electronic Stability control
new wheels
new frontbar and tail-lights on the "True Enthusiast" models (XR and Ghia)
even a new key!!!!!!! (whoopee - joking)

waddya want?
and there are more unannounced changes yet to be revealed.

[Bluehoon]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

Nothing for the true enthusiast AP?

no
except
More engine power and torque
6 speed auto
Bigger better brakes
improved suspension
new frontbar and tail-lights on the "True Enthusiast" models (XR and Ghia)

waddya want?

less kerb weight........... :

[bathurst77]

Originally Posted by filthy_monkey

less kerb weight........... :

Suddenly I feel like im in that scene in "Life of Brian" movie
"what have the Romans ever given us..."

So I will shut up now

Originally Posted by ShockWaveXR6na

Get over it, If you don't love it then don't buy it, go buy the HSV. out: Let the rest of us enjoy what they offer because we actually do like them. For a guy whos probarly wasted 50 K in depreciation in buying 2 Pursuits you make no sense.

You're missing the point (maybe you should go work for FPV because you're easily impressed by TQEs and funny coloured paint. The reason I'm harsh on Ford and FPV is because they don't want to seem to take the pointy end of the market and assert any sort of dominance. I couldn't think of anything worse than living life behind a 4.0 with a pooftermatic but lots of people do. Including lots of Ford/FPV people.

If we want to stay as we are then I'm not impressed. I want to see constant pushing of boundaries and let's see FPV at the top of the performance scales once in our lives. You may not care about quarter mile etc but that's what sells a lot of SS/XR8/GT/Clubbies etc.

[XplosiveR6]

the funny thing is, that ford has no competition for this six speed auto, the only thing cloase is that holden has the five speed which is only built for the V6!

But the stuffed up thing is that holden will still sell well, even with a less ferforming six and a rougher ride quality, god knows why though. It always seems that ford goes to all these efforts to make the falcon a world class car, and holden alway seems to find an easy way out and spend less money on their cars and they still sell better.

[Bluehoon]

Originally Posted by Aussie Pete

You're missing the point (maybe you should go work for FPV because you're easily impressed by TQEs and funny coloured paint. The reason I'm harsh on Ford and FPV is because they don't want to seem to take the pointy end of the market and assert any sort of dominance. I couldn't think of anything worse than living life behind a 4.0 with a pooftermatic but lots of people do. Including lots of Ford/FPV people.

If we want to stay as we are then I'm not impressed. I want to see constant pushing of boundaries and let's see FPV at the top of the performance scales once in our lives. You may not care about quarter mile etc but that's what sells a lot of SS/XR8/GT/Clubbies etc.

XR6T
Typhoon
Tornado
Most torque from a local production motor ever.

Only factory, australian made forced induction engines.

BOSS - only local production V8

XR6T, Phoon, nado, cult cars of the decade.

What more boundaries are there???
FPV - 4 years old and out stripping the established HSV


Territory COTY
Turbo COTY
BA Falcon, best suspension package in family market

Now, AP, turn it up!!!!
FFS, what more is there and what more do you want.

You have your 2 pursuits, and your manuals
AND there is a 6 speed manual.
Get over it.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by Aussie Pete

I couldn't think of anything worse than living life behind a 4.0 with a pooftermatic but lots of people do.

Exactly, lots of people do, so I dont think there's any need to insult them. Geez, I drive a 4cyl so id hate to see what you think of me! But do I lose sleep over it? No.

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by merlin

What about those (such as me) that would NEVER buy an automatic car, no matter how good (read fast) it is? what do we get? after all they are supposed to be performance cars aimed at performance orientated drivers (who would prefer a manual) yes? no?

You got your transmission upgrades with BAII, the Auto buyer benefits this time around. And given that Auto is the bulk of the market the ZF is a pretty exciting change!

Ford would love the manual to go away altogether as would GM but they know it's never going to happen. Just be glad that incrimental improvements keep happening. Even as a manual fan the best thing that can happen for you is a freshen up and improved sales for Falcon.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by filthy_monkey

XR6T
Typhoon
Tornado
Most torque from a local production motor ever.

Only factory, australian made forced induction engines.

BOSS - only local production V8

XR6T, Phoon, nado, cult cars of the decade.

What more boundaries are there???
FPV - 4 years old and out stripping the established HSV


Territory COTY
Turbo COTY
BA Falcon, best suspension package in family market

Now, AP, turn it up!!!!
FFS, what more is there and what more do you want.

You have your 2 pursuits, and your manuals
AND there is a 6 speed manual.
Get over it.

:

I hate to see someone go buy a 30 k XR6 Turbo second hand and spend 5 grand modding it, goodbye Mr V8 man :

Oh, on the V8 Boss power thing, to say the 260 is now 270++ would be great but that's a marketing mistake. So if true owners will now dyno their BA versus a BF and find maybe 10kW at the wheels. Kind of strange and not the idea we were suggesting. To make this change work you still have to market the change. So, make it the Boss 265 so at least a change is announced. Same for Boss 290 - make is Boss 295 but maybe run the power at 310.

I am happy with BF changes - they've done a lot of work. But my disappointment is that the performance end isn't being looked after properly. How many models have we seen now where Ford/Tickford etc promised their new car would match or beat the Holden stuff in a straight line? Well, this started with AU2 and the 220kW XR8 but none actually have done it.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Aussie Pete

Oh, on the V8 Boss power thing, to say the 260 is now 270++ would be great but that's a marketing mistake. So if true owners will now dyno their BA versus a BF and find maybe 10kW at the wheels. Kind of strange and not the idea we were suggesting. To make this change work you still have to market the change. So, make it the Boss 265 so at least a change is announced. Same for Boss 290 - make is Boss 295 but maybe run the power at 310.

I am happy with BF changes - they've done a lot of work. But my disappointment is that the performance end isn't being looked after properly. How many models have we seen now where Ford/Tickford etc promised their new car would match or beat the Holden stuff in a straight line? Well, this started with AU2 and the 220kW XR8 but none actually have done it.

Do we actually know though if the FPV is anymore powerful?

I think we should wait and see.

[MADDER]

Now a report on Web Wombat.

NOTE: For those (like me) that hadn't noticed, peak torque for the I6 comes in 750rpm earlier at 2500 rather than 3250. That's gotta be good news. Also further confirmation that the BOSS260 has no power or torque changes. That's gotta be crap.


LINK HERE

Ford Let's Fly with Powerful New Falcon
Motoring Channel Staff - 17/8/2005


BF Ford Falcon (Fairmont Ghia pictured)

Power Packed
New camshaft profiles, dual independent variable cam timing and a host of other changes ensure the new BF Falcon's volume selling 6-cylinder 4.0-litre engine develops more power and more torque lower in its rev range, while adhering to upcoming emissions standards.

Ford is also promising better fuel economy, which we'll test when we review the BF Falcon, and it also claims to have refined the engine, resulting in smoother operation.

The new 6-cylinder turbo/intercooled engine also benefits from all the changes to the naturally aspirated model, which will give XR6 Turbo models a massive 30Nm boost, taking peak torque to 480Nm. Should be a blinder!

- Feann Torr, Editor

BARRA 190 Upgrades:

- Dual independent VCT
- 10.3:1 compression ratio
- Revised camshaft profile
- Dual knock sensors with individual spark control
- Lighter driveplate
- Low viscosity oil
- Euro III emissions
- Transient rpm limit
- Improved NVH
- Improved fuel economy





The XR8 Ute gets new look 17-inch alloy wheels


The entry level XT Falcon gets a new look front
end, an updated interior and the 190kW engine

Revealing more powerful 6- and 8-cylinder engines, plus a new high torque 6-speed automatic transmission and a subtle new look for particular models, Ford has let the cat out of the bag - the new BF Falcon.

Tom Gorman, who is the President of Ford Australia, just recently divulged the details of the new Falcon that replace the BA Falcon and Territory range, which the company says will be ready for sale by the end of October.

"The new BF Falcon and SY Territory models incorporate a host of changes aimed at delivering even more driving enjoyment and fuel economy advantages to our valued customers," enthused the American-born Gorman.

BF Ford Falcon and SY Territory models equipped with the 4.0-litre straight 6-cylinder engine get an 8kW boost in power from 182kW to 190kW, now on par with Holden's range-topping 6-cylinder V6.

"Every Falcon and Territory owner will appreciate the noticeable improvements in performance, refinement and fuel economy in the petrol engines," said Gorman.

"Today we revealed changes to the look of the BF Falcon and upgrades to the engines and transmissions powering the Falcon and Territory range.

"These upgrades will ensure that Falcon and Territory remain at the technological forefront of Australian-made vehicles.

"Importantly, all the improvements we've made have been driven by customer feedback and have a real world application that drivers will notice and appreciate," Mr Gorman said.

Just briefly, here are some of the upgrades to the BF Falcon and SY Territory range we know about:

A reworked Barra 190 4.0-litre 6-cylinder engine


More power and torque in the turbocharged engine for the Falcon XR


More power and torque in the 3-valve SOHC V8 engine


A world-class ZF 6-speed automatic transmission available in premium Falcon sedans and utes, and AWD versions of Territory


An improved ION 4-speed automatic transmission


Introduction of the Tremec T56 six-speed manual transmission on XR6 sedan


New exterior styling for the Falcon range, including Fairlane and Falcon Ute


New interior upgrades for all models


New wheel designs for XT, Futura, Fairmont, Fairmont Ghia, XR and XLS


New Fairlane G8 (replacing Fairlane G220)

"The new Falcon and Territory will boast an engine line-up offering the latest technology, providing customers with substantial improvements in fuel economy, increased performance and greatly improved levels of refinement," said Ford Australia Product and Development Vice President Trevor Worthington.

"The addition of dual independent variable camshaft timing and dual knock sensors keeps the engine powering the new vehicles at the forefront of automotive technology."

The base model 4.0-litre inline 6-cylinder engine gets a power boost to 190kW, while peak torque rises from 380Nm to 383Nm.

More telling of the performance gains however, is the earlier torque peak: the new model hits peak torque @ 2500rpm, where the older engine arrived at peak thrust @ 3250rpm.

Ford's popular turbo six has also been benefited with a 5kW power increase and a substantial 30Nm increase, rising from 450Nm to 480Nm. For all the new engine specifications, see the table below.

"With the introduction of this new engine programme, Ford Australia is providing customers with the best of both worlds – more usable performance, cleaner emissions and increased fuel economy for all petrol engines. This strategy has also helped us meet all the requirements of the stringent Euro III emissions legislation which come into force on January 1, 2006," said Trevor Worthington.


"Working in combination with our new ZF 6-speed automatic, revised Ion 4-speed automatic and the Tremec T56 6-speed manual transmission, the BF Falcon and SY Territory are truly world-class cars," Worthington said.

Ford has engineered two versions of the 6-speed automatic transmission – a standard version with a torque capacity of 450 Newton metres and a performance version with a torque capacity of 600Nm.

"As the first Australian-manufactured vehicles with a 6-speed automatic transmission, Falcon and Territory remain at the forefront of engineering innovation, delivering best-in-class technology to Australian drivers while maintaining the Ford hallmarks of affordability and durability," finished Worthington.


BF XR8 Ford Falcon with new look 18-inch alloy
wheels and revised front apron/bumper section


This is the 'luxury' interior option for the XR models


The new ZF 6-speed auto shifter

Ford has also made changes to the exterior designs for the first time since the BA Falcon launched. "BF Falcon is a refined evolution of the successful BA range of vehicles," said Ford Australia Director of Design Simon Butterworth.

There's also the introduction of an array of new fabrics, trims and finishes and of course new alloy wheel and wheel cover styles.

The new look front end on XR models continues to forge strong links with Ford's performance heritage. This is seen in the new sports front apron's deep, wide central airdam and GT-style fog lights, recessed in a more angular surround with pronounced fluting.

"By utilising Ford's corporate design DNA, the new BF range strengthens the Falcon brand by delivering a more dynamic, powerful and exciting front graphic, while still maintaining the elements of sophistication evident throughout the BA range," said Butterworth.

"The rear of the car has been endorsed by improved, dynamic tail lamps that mirror the design philosophy of Falcon's distinctive and successful front," stated Butterworth.

"The new design alloy wheels and wheel covers are both elegant and strong in their appearance, for a more refined aesthetic that builds on the sophisticated style of the BA range.

"The XR6 and XR6 Turbo continue the tradition of bold, performance driven, five-spoke, 17-inch designs, while the XR8 sedan has a new 18-inch alloy wheel as standard that contributes to its powerful, road-hugging stance," stated Butterworth.

All Falcon models gain new wheel designs for an enhanced appearance, while Fairlane Ghia and LTD increase wheel size from 16- to 17-inch for a more dynamic driving experience.

Wheel styles:

XT – a seven-spoke, 16-inch wheel cover in a twin-spoke style that has been designed with new resin technology and Computer Aided Engineering to deliver high strength and stiffness, while also reducing weight.

Futura – a nine-spoke, 16-inch alloy wheel with elegant cues.

XR6 – a five-spoke, 17-inch alloy wheel with a bold ‘Tuning Fork’ design (standard on XR6 and XR6 Turbo sedans and Utes, and XR8 Utes).

XR8 – a five-spoke, 18-inch alloy wheel with an aggressive ‘Boomerang’ spoke design and machined ‘Boomerang’ features on the spokes (standard on XR8 sedans, optional on all other XR variants).

Fairmont – a 10-spoke, 16-inch alloy wheel with classic lines.

Fairmont Ghia – a nine-spoke, 17-inch alloy wheel with a machined front face and ‘Ghia’ script on the centre cap.

Fairlane Ghia – a seven-spoke, 17-inch sports-luxury alloy wheel with a fully machined front face, chrome finish centre cap and ‘Ghia’ badge.

Fairlane G8 – a five-spoke, 17-inch sports alloy wheel with a fully machined front face, chrome finish centre cap and ‘G8’ badge.

LTD – a seven-spoke, 17-inch sports-luxury alloy wheel with a fully machined front face, chrome finish centre cap and ‘LTD’ badge.

"The changes we've announced today signal another exciting step forward for our local product range," continued Mr Gorman, Ford Australia's chief. "There are other details of the new Falcon and Territory program that we'll be revealing as we get closer to the launch.

"The key overriding principle behind all of them however is their customer-driven focus and user-friendly application.

"When combined with the world-class engines and transmissions we've announced today, these further changes will keep Falcon and Territory at the forefront of local automotive engineering and deliver real benefits for every Ford customer."

The new BF range of Ford Performance Vehicles will make their debut at the 2005 Australian Motor Show in Sydney during October, and we'll have all the details of changes to the new 6-speed auto and manual models closer to the auto show.

[Bluehoon]

Originally Posted by Aussie Pete

Oh, on the V8 Boss power thing, to say the 260 is now 270++ would be great but that's a marketing mistake. So if true owners will now dyno their BA versus a BF and find maybe 10kW at the wheels. Kind of strange and not the idea we were suggesting. To make this change work you still have to market the change. So, make it the Boss 265 so at least a change is announced. Same for Boss 290 - make is Boss 295 but maybe run the power at 310.

I am happy with BF changes - they've done a lot of work. But my disappointment is that the performance end isn't being looked after properly. How many models have we seen now where Ford/Tickford etc promised their new car would match or beat the Holden stuff in a straight line? Well, this started with AU2 and the 220kW XR8 but none actually have done it.

Turbo
Phoon
Tornado
Game over out: :

As for the BOSS motors, sorry to all the V8 fans here, but they don't cut the mustard. Too heavy too slow, and the manufacturing tolerances with the power differences is not acceptable, there you have a point.

AP, please i love a sound debate, but this is not.
Ford/ FPV is more then performance, its a thrill, nothing puts a bigger smile on my face than stripping Holden / HSV, and any boss silly enough to want a run. I own a stock T, but knowing how to drive and get the performance is the key : out: ...

Oh, and while i am going, if you have such an issue with lack of performance from ford, who kills a HSV, then sell your pursuits and go buy a Ferrari... :dr_Evil: