The "ve" Thread

[Bluehoon]

Originally Posted by Falcon Freak

Pardon? The Ford donk is also sophisticated. 4 valves per cylinder, twin over head cams, variable valve timing on both the inlet and exhaust side. And this engine was released two years before Holden's Alloytech V6 (which has failed to live up to expectations). If you read all the VE vs BF comparissons, most of the journalists concluded that the Ford 6 cyl engine is better then the Holden 6 cyl engine.

FF

Yep. But what has changed since 2002?

10 more KW and a bit more torque.....

Not much...........

[Falcon Freak]

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

Yep. But what has changed since 2002?

10 more KW and a bit more torque.....

Not much...........

Ford managed to make this engine comply with both new Euro III emissions requirements and new drive by noise requirements without any loss in engine power. The VZII lost some power when these ADRs were implemented at the start of this year.

The big engine changes are slated for the Orion model due to be released March 2008. Prepare to be surprised.

FF

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Falcon Freak

Ford managed to make this engine comply with both new Euro III emissions requirements and new drive by noise requirements without any loss in engine power. The VZII lost some power when these ADRs were implemented at the start of this year.

The big engine changes are slated for the Orion model due to be released March 2008. Prepare to be surprised.

FF

Also the DVCT was made better in the BF motor and this helped in it's fuel consumption.

I hope Orion's I6 is something great, DI would be a big plus.

[Falcon Freak]

I never said anything about DI.

FF

[Polyal]

Ford could get away with not touching the I6 for another 5 years.

Its the V8 that need attention.

[Falcon Freak]

They are already investigating other V8 options as the current 5.4 "just doesn't cut the mustard".

FF

[McobraR]

Only other option they have is to supercharge it. The 6.2 hurricane, and rumoured 5.8 derivative, wont be out till second half of 2008 at the earliest.

[MITCHAY]

Sounds good although that hyrbid drive sounds hella expensive.

[XR8-260]

Speaking of the VE... I test drove the new SV6 a few days ago. It looks hell sexy and all except the performance was very disappointing. It didn't feel any faster than my BA fairmont but perphaps thats because there was only 750km on the clock and hasn't been 'run in' yet.

[David See]

Guys, I have to say that I saw my first VE HSV today - a Club Sport and, even though I am a proud Ford owner, it looked AWESOME! I cannot find another word for it at this time. FREAKIN' awesome might be better. Sorry, but Ford have nothing on this, in the looks dept anyway.

It was driving through Terrigal on the Central Coast yesterday afternoon (Sat). It was big, red, imposing and incredible. Stood out in the traffic coming towards me like a sore thumb. Very impressive. When finances are right, I will have one in the driveway alongside the Territory.

I also saw a silver VE that was touring the Skillion area (not HSV) - again, very good looking - very smart and modern - very finished off and "solid" in appearance. I saw this from a distance, but again it stood out. Reminded me of a new German-built vehicle.

I'm impressed, anyway. Especially with the HSV.

Sorry, but Ford need to pull their socks up in the looks and engineering dept now these are hitting the roads.

[XR8-260]

I agree... The holden V8's are faster, better handling and better equiped than fords. However, Ford's Barra 6 thrashes the VE's alloytec...

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by 30487256

I agree... The holden V8's are faster, better handling and better equiped than fords. However, Ford's Barra 6 thrashes the VE's alloytec...

Against the 180 yes but the 195 is a better competitor against it.

[Outbackjack]

It will be interesting to see the VE's leaving the fatory now, in 12 months time. If they are true to commodore history they will be developing interia rattles, the plastic dash and centre consoles with be starting to fade. Seat adjusters will be starting to rattle and become difficult to lock into place. Door trims will be pulling away from the door body. These some of the issues that we see up here in the centre. And drive train rattles will be becoming apparent.I can extrapolate out from there and say that the holdens are not built to last. Ford do have their issues but nowhere as bad as holden/commodores. As a comparison, the best judges I know of are the aboriginal people that live out in the comunities. They love their 90's models falcon's. None of them will touch a commodore "dey no bloody good fella" is what they say about them. The jury is out, it will be interesting to read these forums in a year or two.

Cheers all.

[Falcon Coupe]

I was following a VE GTS yesterday 307kw badged, first one Ive seen, i must say it's an impressive bit of gear, very modern, i thought it was an Audi from a distance, it looks a generation above a BF GT-P style wise, i can't wait to see what Ford brings out to compete with it.

[David See]

Hey...Outbackjack:

I didn't have to wait ANY time for my ford (Territory) to rattle and clunk! it all came built-in FROM the factory! At least Holden buyers will have SOME time before they start to dismantle themselves. I think this problem is relevant to Holdens and Fords, but the motoring writers are indeed commenting on the excellent quality of build/engineering standards of the VE, so it might have changed for Holden.

However, I was commenting on the looks. Leave Ford for dead! IMO, the FPV's are dead boring. Always have been. But it is all personal taste and my opinion is that you can't really do too much with what is essentially a facelifted AU.

But, I didn't like the HSV's from the VT model on - too bland. But the VE has changed my outlook.

Fortunately for me finances won't allow a purchase for some time and by then the bugs should be ironed out of the VE and longevity will be shown.

The exciting thing is that Ford WILL have to bring out something much better otherwise goodbye FPV.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by David See

Hey...Outbackjack:

I didn't have to wait ANY time for my ford (Territory) to rattle and clunk! it all came built-in FROM the factory! At least Holden buyers will have SOME time before they start to dismantle themselves. I think this problem is relevant to Holdens and Fords, but the motoring writers are indeed commenting on the excellent quality of build/engineering standards of the VE, so it might have changed for Holden.

However, I was commenting on the looks. Leave Ford for dead! IMO, the FPV's are dead boring. Always have been. But it is all personal taste and my opinion is that you can't really do too much with what is essentially a facelifted AU.

But, I didn't like the HSV's from the VT model on - too bland. But the VE has changed my outlook.

Fortunately for me finances won't allow a purchase for some time and by then the bugs should be ironed out of the VE and longevity will be shown.

The exciting thing is that Ford WILL have to bring out something much better otherwise goodbye FPV.

Strange how some cars rattle from day 1. I have had absolutly no rattle issues wit the BF. All the guys that I work with that have moonaros and variuos vintages of commodores ALL have rattle issues. To my eye the commie interia's are just cheap looking, very little class. Havent really looked the VE up close yet. Cant see the point, they look ugly to me, sort of like they are trying too hard.... I think that it will be tough for ford to build a better looking car than the BF, but everyone's eye's are different.

Cheers all.

[Falcon Freak]

Originally Posted by 30487256

Ford's Barra 6 thrashes the VE's alloytec...

And that is where it counts as cars with these engines make up the bulk of the sales.

FF

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

It will be interesting to see the VE's leaving the fatory now, in 12 months time. If they are true to commodore history they will be developing interia rattles, the plastic dash and centre consoles with be starting to fade. Seat adjusters will be starting to rattle and become difficult to lock into place. Door trims will be pulling away from the door body. These some of the issues that we see up here in the centre. And drive train rattles will be becoming apparent.I can extrapolate out from there and say that the holdens are not built to last. Ford do have their issues but nowhere as bad as holden/commodores. As a comparison, the best judges I know of are the aboriginal people that live out in the comunities. They love their 90's models falcon's. None of them will touch a commodore "dey no bloody good fella" is what they say about them. The jury is out, it will be interesting to read these forums in a year or two.

Cheers all.

Our VTII has an interior that is still ok. Admittedly, our family isn't the cleanest, or the most careful when it comes to anything. AFter 6 years I don't pick up too much rattle and everything appears to be pretty well aligned.

It would help that the car has only done ~80,000km in 6 years, as we tend to walk more than most people (e.g. school, shopping etc) and the car is garaged all the time.

The only bad thing is that the dowels holding the pockets on the back seat are VERY weak and break easily. The passenger side rear pocket is damaged. Didn't take much.

But the VTII interior is far nicer than the old XF. The old XF was plastic bertron all the way.

I think Holdens are okay.

But I still prefer a Falcon.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Stoney!

It seems Holden aren't going to stop enhancing this car.... As is known they are still working on shift patterns in the 5 and 6 speeders to bring the up to a much higher standard.

From Wheels this month there was an article detailing the following:-

To top this of apparently holden are looking at the 6L40 for the V6's and keeping the 6L80 in the V8's, this could mean the end of the four speeder by VEII or VF. Which will bring a price increase of only $500 - $1000

They are also looking at hybrid drive which is a gearbox with an eletric motor in it mated to the current 3.6 or maybe even a slightly smaller engine... but mated to the 3.6 it will achieve a fuel saving of up to 25%! At a premium of $5000 - $8000 though.

Cylinder shutdown system for V8's will apparently save approximatly 5 - 12% fuel and will come at a premium of only $250 - $750!

DIRECT FUEL INJECTION - This one is certain and will be hitting the street in V6 commodores in just of 12 months, early 2008, with power going from 195kw up to 215 kw and fuel consumption dropping from 11.3 to around 9.9, maybe better, and if the 6 speed auto comes through even better again. Price premium around $500 - $1000.

Should be interesting to see how many of these avenues they are looking at, they actually chase.

Stoney!

I highly doubt DI will be available on VEII. They haven't even started working on it yet. Adding $1000 to the price per car is absolutely massive, and will limit the technology to the upper spec models anyway, there will be no way Holden could justify that sort of price rise on an Omega, especially after they cut costs on the VE to the bone.

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

It will be interesting to see the VE's leaving the fatory now, in 12 months time. If they are true to commodore history they will be developing interia rattles, the plastic dash and centre consoles with be starting to fade. Seat adjusters will be starting to rattle and become difficult to lock into place. Door trims will be pulling away from the door body. These some of the issues that we see up here in the centre. And drive train rattles will be becoming apparent.I can extrapolate out from there and say that the holdens are not built to last. Ford do have their issues but nowhere as bad as holden/commodores. As a comparison, the best judges I know of are the aboriginal people that live out in the comunities. They love their 90's models falcon's. None of them will touch a commodore "dey no bloody good fella" is what they say about them. The jury is out, it will be interesting to read these forums in a year or two.

Cheers all.

1979 VB Commodore with no creaks in the dash. And only minor creaks all over. Would have been the best car if it didn't have massive rust in it.
And my current car 92 VP creaks in the dash when the heater is on and it just sounds like a pop. All seats are good, Well in-fact the VB seat never rattled or moved, the VP on the other hand might move a touch on harder corners. Drive train rattles? Scratching my head on that one.
The aboriginal people would be happy to have a car they wouldn't be picky.
Byron Pickett has a couple of Commodores 90's models.

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I highly doubt DI will be available on VEII. They haven't even started working on it yet. Adding $1000 to the price per car is absolutely massive, and will limit the technology to the upper spec models anyway, there will be no way Holden could justify that sort of price rise on an Omega, especially after they cut costs on the VE to the bone.

It would be accepted if it was added with 5 speed auto. But chances are it will only be added to high spec models at first.
But there working on it right now some comments they have already said are they are tyring many things to make the DI quite as it's loud.

[David See]

Hmmm...interesting read in this month's Motor magazine:

Commodore SS, SSV, Falcon XR6T and XR8 comparison.

"We can't really work out why you would buy the XR8...it is off the pace and has been for some time...the VE certainly brings the (Ford's) limitations into sharp focus."

It was SS, XR6T, SSV (based on price) in third and then XR8.

"Wanna be king of the road? Then you need a Commodore SS, you do."

But then again, what do motoring journalists know?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by David See

Hmmm...interesting read in this month's Motor magazine:

Commodore SS, SSV, Falcon XR6T and XR8 comparison.

"We can't really work out why you would buy the XR8...it is off the pace and has been for some time...the VE certainly brings the (Ford's) limitations into sharp focus."

It was SS, XR6T, SSV (based on price) in third and then XR8.

"Wanna be king of the road? Then you need a Commodore SS, you do."

But then again, what do motoring journalists know?

The SSv was impressive over the 1/4... 15.3 or something?....

[xr8ted]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The SSv was impressive over the 1/4... 15.3 or something?....

13.6 over the quarter.....

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by xr8ted

13.6 over the quarter.....

ok, i saw 15.3 listed for the SSv somewhere when i was flicking through, must have been another mag.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

The aboriginal people would be happy to have a car they wouldn't be picky.
Byron Pickett has a couple of Commodores 90's models.

Dead wrong, the Aboriginals that actually have a car are quite picky, the royalty rich one's always buy fords before holdens. In fact even the poor ones go ford first, reliability for these people is everthing. Drive a commodore over dirt roads for a few months, then you wont need to scratch your head anymore.

Who the hell is Byron Pickett??

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

The aboriginal people would be happy to have a car they wouldn't be picky.
Byron Pickett has a couple of Commodores 90's models.
.

What a rediculous and offensive comment.....

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

1979 VB Commodore with no creaks in the dash. And only minor creaks all over. Would have been the best car if it didn't have massive rust in it.
And my current car 92 VP creaks in the dash when the heater is on and it just sounds like a pop. All seats are good, Well in-fact the VB seat never rattled or moved, the VP on the other hand might move a touch on harder corners. Drive train rattles? Scratching my head on that one.
The aboriginal people would be happy to have a car they wouldn't be picky.

I saw that bush mechanic show (the one that shows the genius and tremendous ingenuity of the outback Aborigines mechanical abilities) a couple of years ago and they reversed a VB Commy backwards at 30 to 40 k/ph for 200 k’s after blowing up the trannie when they hit a rock. It kept going for ages until the tranny let go altogether because it over heated. Incredibly the engine was still running after revving its guts out without sufficient cooling.

[McobraR]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I highly doubt DI will be available on VEII. They haven't even started working on it yet. Adding $1000 to the price per car is absolutely massive, and will limit the technology to the upper spec models anyway, there will be no way Holden could justify that sort of price rise on an Omega, especially after they cut costs on the VE to the bone.

Mooney stated in Wheels magazine that they are definitely working on DI. and that the introduction of the DI V6 is a little more than 12 months away. If the VEII is released late 2007, it probably wont have DI, but if its released in 2008, then i reckon it definitely will. Considering the VE drinks abit more than the falc already, i reckon they're desperate to lower its fuel consumption. As for the cost of the project, i agree that holden has already cut costs with the car, but since they're good at exporting, im sure they'l make some money in no time.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by Bud Bud

I saw that bush mechanic show (the one that shows the genius and tremendous ingenuity of the outback Aborigines mechanical abilities) a couple of years ago and they reversed a VB Commy backwards at 30 to 40 k/ph for 200 k’s after blowing up the trannie when they hit a rock. It kept going for ages until the tranny let go altogether because it over heated. Incredibly the engine was still running after revving its guts out without sufficient cooling.

Tranny hit a rock ay!.... That sounds familiar, they must be crap cars!!!

I am sorry if anyone was offended by my bringing up the topic of what cars the comunity folk out here like to drive. This was not an attempt to belittle or critisize the local Aboriginal people of central OZ. To me they represent the best testing crews of cars this country has to offer. Nowhere is the biuld quality of a vehicle put to the test like central Australia. And as it happens, one brand stands head and shoulders above all other brands. I think that the same applies to current builds as well. The comunity folk are starting see BA's come into their affordability bracket. These cars wil be driven to destruction, but they buy the cars that they know will last the longest.

Slickholdens comment was precious and not relevant, hopefully he will edit it out.....

Cheers all.

[SSBUB]

Byron Pickett plays for the Melbourne Demons AFL club by the way.