Final FPV sparks kilowatt controversy (GT-F vs GTS)

[The Monty]

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

Yeh , but on same day , same track , same conditions , that XR6t may have run a 13.9.

Need to wait for some times from real world owners with cars that have loosened up a bit. Mid to low 12's will be the norm for stockers, especially with just a tyre swap for something stickier.

Very true, my bad.

[2242100]

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

You know there are gears in the diff right?

Which slows down the rotation speed and multiplies the torque.

[hootar]

I may be wrong but Guys I'm not convinced of this overboost feature we keep talking about.

I mean how do we go "Over" the Maximum Boost?

My thought is that it makes full (maximum)boost and X amount of power (which no one other then Ford knows what that is at the moment). Then when temps etc reach pre determined situations that ford deem to be unsafe then the maximum boost is reduced, possibly by some type of bleed of valve etc. The minimum power it makes is what we believe to be approx 351 fwkw. (Again only ford at this stage know this figure). The rest of us at the moment are only guessing (this includes Wheels, Motoring, Motor, SM and us).

I think we need to see more of these cars on the dyno, drag strip, race track, traffic lights etc before we can make any real informed decision on what these motors do/make. All I see at the moment is a lot of people making a lot of assumptions using a lot of guess work. That's not good for anyone's credibility.

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by hootar

I may be wrong but Guys I'm not convinced of this overboost feature we keep talking about.

I mean how do we go "Over" the Maximum Boost?

My thought is that it makes full (maximum)boost and X amount of power (which no one other then Ford knows what that is at the moment). Then when temps etc reach pre determined situations that ford deem to be unsafe then the maximum boost is reduced, possibly by some type of bleed of valve etc. The minimum power it makes is what we believe to be approx 351 fwkw. (Again only ford at this stage know this figure). The rest of us at the moment are only guessing (this includes Wheels, Motoring, Motor, SM and us).

I think we need to see more of these cars on the dyno, drag strip, race track, traffic lights etc before we can make any real informed decision on what these motors do/make. All I see at the moment is a lot of people making a lot of assumptions using a lot of guess work. That's not good for anyone's credibility.

It's not what is known as an "over boost" function, ie providing a brief increase of boost. The Miami will provide the maximum boost all day as long as the engine remains outside the boost cut parameters.
The fact it can cut boost forces FPV to quote the lower value.
Ford have quoted under what exact conditions boost will be cut. (High temp, first gear etc).
Ford also quoted they expected the GT-F to make more that 320kW at the wheels when this GTS vs GT-F fiasco first occurred.

[shaness8]

Forgot to add the VF R8 340kw manual run a 13.5 @ 177km.

Think I'll put the books away and wait for some owners get real numbers at the track, i'm sure low 12's is on the cards.

[timeout]

Wow lot of dribble in here... I am surprised no one has mentioned dodgey fuel? For either of the cars that day.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by hootar

I may be wrong but Guys I'm not convinced of this overboost feature we keep talking about.

I mean how do we go "Over" the Maximum Boost?

Not so much overboosting as maintaining maximum boost further up the rev range when conditions allow. That is why the GTF makes no more torque but more power, holding boost for longer.

When conditions are not favourable it will pull timing and or open the valve you see at the back here (pic cortesy of BAGT514 from his thread- maybe an upgrade but you will still get the idea)

http://s237.photobucket.com/user/Ext...b5e8c.jpg.html

[2242100]

Originally Posted by shaness8

Is there any in gear acceleration times on the GTF or GTS 80-120k.

I think this Zone represents true power using 2nd gear and 3rd for a bit using midrange and top end power and no traction issue's

2242100
Any mods on your XR6 fast for standard tune, hope my F6 can run those times.

Absolutely no mods or tune and I've had it since new in 2009. So it can't have been tuned before I got it.

See "Confusion over VF SS 0 - 100 times" thread page 2 and the post I did at 4:13 pm on 2/5/14. Their was some skepticism expressed and I think my post successfully addressed it.
I've put off getting my tune till the hot weather returns and I'm still looking for a post mid 2010 Euro 4 CAT to go with the tune.

On the XR6 Turbo.com.au forum I saw a !2.295 from a standard F6 Auto on ET Street radials and the same car got a 12.51 on Factory Dunlops.
There were also some fast normal FG turbo's on there too. Also my performance box was used on another untuned FG Turbo and it had similar pace to mine. So my car is apparently no freak. On the Dyno I've seen it get around 18% overboost although Ford only mentioned up to 10% at the models release.
The Wheels 80 - 120 time for the Auto GTF was 2.4 sec.

[PepeLePew]

Originally Posted by tweeked

Not so much overboosting as maintaining maximum boost further up the rev range when conditions allow. That is why the GTF makes no more torque but more power, holding boost for longer.

When conditions are not favourable it will pull timing and or open the valve you see at the back here (pic cortesy of BAGT514 from his thread- maybe an upgrade but you will still get the idea)

http://s237.photobucket.com/user/Ext...b5e8c.jpg.html

It is interesting to note that the GS doesn't appear to suffer this misrepresentation of output and dyno numbers seem smack on advertised numbers If all misrepresentations were of this kind we'd all be very happy campers.

PS...I've heard a rumour that they haven't shared any results from the new dyno session as the story is still to be rubber stamped at Fishermans Bend

[2242100]

EVO Australia has just tested a manual HSV GTS and a manual FPV GTF.

FPV. 0 - 100 in 4.46 and 400 metres in 12.66 seconds.

HSV GTS. 0 - 100 in 4.34 and 400 metres in 12.53 seconds.

Full numbers on their website soon apparently.

[Professor Farnsworth]

Sounds about right

[BHDOGS]

nah mate not possible the fpv only does high 13s wheels said so.

[shaness8]

Originally Posted by 2242100

Absolutely no mods or tune and I've had it since new in 2009. So it can't have been tuned before I got it.

See "Confusion over VF SS 0 - 100 times" thread page 2 and the post I did at 4:13 pm on 2/5/14. Their was some skepticism expressed and I think my post successfully addressed it.
I've put off getting my tune till the hot weather returns and I'm still looking for a post mid 2010 Euro 4 CAT to go with the tune.

On the XR6 Turbo.com.au forum I saw a !2.295 from a standard F6 Auto on ET Street radials and the same car got a 12.51 on Factory Dunlops.
There were also some fast normal FG turbo's on there too. Also my performance box was used on another untuned FG Turbo and it had similar pace to mine. So my car is apparently no freak. On the Dyno I've seen it get around 18% overboost although Ford only mentioned up to 10% at the models release.
The Wheels 80 - 120 time for the Auto GTF was 2.4 sec.

What did the GTF do for 1/4 mile and speed in Wheels.

Did some testing on my F6 80-120 in 2.5 sec, did 3 runs all same times, hoping to run around the 12.5 down the strip

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by 2242100

EVO Australia has just tested a manual HSV GTS and a manual FPV GTF.

FPV. 0 - 100 in 4.46 and 400 metres in 12.66 seconds.

HSV GTS. 0 - 100 in 4.34 and 400 metres in 12.53 seconds.

Full numbers on their website soon apparently.

Plenty to be proud of there, great numbers really, and $20k cheaper.

[Rob 351]

Originally Posted by 2242100

EVO Australia has just tested a manual HSV GTS and a manual FPV GTF.

FPV. 0 - 100 in 4.46 and 400 metres in 12.66 seconds.

HSV GTS. 0 - 100 in 4.34 and 400 metres in 12.53 seconds.

Full numbers on their website soon apparently.

Finally found someone who can drive a manual!!!!

[SensationFG8]

There seems to be a noticeable silence from wheels on the retest... Wonder if they've decided to let this slide away silently.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

nah mate not possible the fpv only does high 13s wheels said so.

Depends on testing criteria

Wheels normally test with full tank of petrol and a passenger on board - apparently - not sure if this has changed recently.

If someone else tests with 1/4 tank and no passenger - you would of course expect it to be quicker.

I think Wheels also carries about 100Kg extra of EGO - so that alone would slow down any car.....

[Sorted]

Originally Posted by Rob 351

Finally found someone who can drive a manual!!!!

Originally Posted by 2242100

I see that EVO Australia Magazine has extracted some quite fast times out of an HSV GTS Manual and an FPV GTF Manual.

HSV GTS 0 - 100 kmh in 4.34 sec and 400 metres in 12.53 seconds.

FPV GTF 0 - 100 kmh in 4.46 sec and 400 metres in 12.66 seconds.

Apparently full numbers will be on their website soon.

Off their facebook page:-
Our Vbox has been busy lately. Any guesses how the FPV GT F and HSV GTS went on the strip? Both manuals, both incredibly difficult to get the best from.

On an unprepped track and using a Vbox with no roll out (worth two to three tenths in our experience) the GTS hit 100km/h in a best of 4.34 and 0-400 in 12.53. The FPV did 0-100km/h in 4.46 and the quarter in 12.66.

Without a prepped track and the benefit of roll out, there is no way a manual GTS will do a 12 flat

[Polyal]

12.66 1/4 stock. Bloody hell!

[BHDOGS]

So what are the autos gonna run

[fgpsi]

Just seen some pics on Fakebook of Herrods new white GT-F. Getting ready to mod already

[Charliewool]

Hope Rob dynoed it before the mods?

[Sorted]

Originally Posted by fgpsi

Just seen some pics on Fakebook of Herrods new white GT-F. Getting ready to mod already

See here http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11422521

[2242100]

[QUOTE=Bluey-GT;5163040]Depends on testing criteria

Wheels normally test with full tank of petrol and a passenger on board - apparently - not sure if this has changed recently.

If someone else tests with 1/4 tank and no passenger - you would of course expect it to be quicker.

I think Wheels also carries about 100Kg extra of EGO - so that alone would slow down any car.....




That's apparently no longer the case. I was told by a staff member around 18 months ago that they had stopped running 2 up and towards the end both passenger and driver were generally quite light. I believe that the Manual RSPEC 4.5 to 100 and 12.6 sec 400 metre run was driver only.

[Whitey-AMG]

[QUOTE=2242100;5163691]

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

Depends on testing criteria

Wheels normally test with full tank of petrol and a passenger on board - apparently - not sure if this has changed recently.

If someone else tests with 1/4 tank and no passenger - you would of course expect it to be quicker.

I think Wheels also carries about 100Kg extra of EGO - so that alone would slow down any car.....



That's apparently no longer the case. I was told by a staff member around 18 months ago that they had stopped running 2 up and towards the end both passenger and driver were generally quite light. I believe that the Manual RSPEC 4.5 to 100 and 12.6 sec 400 metre run was driver only.

Yes - I had read that there may have been a change but wasn't sure.
I'll just stick with my other theory on the big heads and ego weighing the cars down then, wheels times are always much slower than most other mags get so makes you wonder wtf they're doing so badly. Maybe they need to check the handbrake has been released next time.

[2242100]

[QUOTE=Bluey-GT;5163722]

Originally Posted by 2242100

Yes - I had read that there may have been a change but wasn't sure.
I'll just stick with my other theory on the big heads and ego weighing the cars down then, wheels times are always much slower than most other mags get so makes you wonder wtf they're doing so badly. Maybe they need to check the handbrake has been released next time.

It's a bit of a mixed bag I think and depends a lot on the conditions. For example
Wheels got a very good 6.5 to 100 and 14.5 sec 400 metre time out of an ECOBOOST 2 litre Falcon and 6.1/ 14.2 out of an Aurion under admittedly cool conditions with a light driver.
On the other hand Motor could only manage a 14 seconds plus 400 metre time for an FG Turbo Falcon on one occasion and their time for the new Auto GTF was much slower than Wheels got. They can't always have the best conditions.

[2242100]

The EVO AUSTRALIA article with full times of the GTS and FPR has finally been posted on their website and it's probably the most detailed shootout story that I've ever seen.

They've gone to great detail to avoid accusations of bias.

No where to hide for red or blue I think, and no real need I'd say. Both cars did well.

[2242100]

Originally Posted by shaness8

What did the GTF do for 1/4 mile and speed in Wheels.

Did some testing on my F6 80-120 in 2.5 sec, did 3 runs all same times, hoping to run around the 12.5 down the strip

The end speed for the Auto in Wheels was 186.7.

2.5 would be very good for an F6 Auto (I'm assuming it's an Auto). I'm guessing that you would be taking the readings off the speedo and if it's say 2 kmh optomistic you'd need to add about 0.08 to the times because it would be accelerating harder at 78 than 118 kmh. I understand a lot of cars speedos are a bit optomistic these days because manufacturers aren't allowed to make them read under the true speed.
I think the Falcon speedo's are pretty accurate though, so it seems like your car is pretty fast.

On the 12.5 quarter, it certainly should be possible to get a timeslip like that if you shallow stage and get a good launch, but I wouldn't take the tools and spare out of the boot, also a fairly low fuel load and if necessary some weight at the back of the boot can help. I ran my tyres at about 37 PSI.
I'd be interested to see what your F6 could manage with a second gear launch. For that I'd stall to about 2250 revs briefly and I wouldn't practice stalling. Just one go. Also make sure that the under bonnet temperature is as low as possible.
I got a 12.731 with a second gear launch.

[F6BF]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

So what are the autos gonna run

With the mph they are running 117-118 should see the autos into the high 11's

[shaness8]

Yeah it's an Auto, Have you done a 80-120 in the XR6

12.731 for a second launch is awesome maybe the smaller turbo's are stronger down low.

Car feels quicker than my SS commodore 6sp which run 177km'h over the 1/4, think 80-120 was around 3 seconds so i'm hoping for around 182km'h providing i can get traction in 1st gear.

Tried a tune'd F6 80-120 in 2.1 has run 11.7 in street trim.

Should be at Calder Park for the next street meet.