SS vs XR8 and the winner is......

[335POWER]

Originally Posted by tempted

People will come up with all sorts of crap to try and discredit the VF. Face it, Holden have done well with it. Credit where credit is due.

They've done really well with it

For my own personal taste, I'll take the performance of the xr8 over the tech filled SS. But that's just me though

[kypez]

Originally Posted by arronm

Wrong.

Its the difference in the overall diameter between the front and rear tyres. Not all the tyres. Plenty of FG running 245/35 and 275/30 both in 19 and 20 inch. And as the OD of both the front and rear tyres is similar. Traction control is not affected. BUT depending on where the speedo is taken from it may need to be recalibrated as with larger tyres it may be reading slower than you are actually travelling.

What you need to do is keep the front and rear tyres the same OD. Which your suggested tyres arnt.

On a side note can you turn off the traction control but leave the DSC on an FG. Or is it one button so its either all on or off.

The OD will increase by a huge margin of I ran the same profile on 20's over 19's!

Besides, they don't need to be similar to each other. That's the whole point! The comp knows they are different and calculates accordingly. Bit like the cars that had a 19 inch front and 20 inch rear. There is no need for them to have similar OD front and rear!

Dear God you have no clue! Now run off to your mate and ask him to back you...

OT: I love the look of the XR8. I've left a deposit for the run out special that might happen. Though I have also said I'd go the XR6T if the special edition does happen

[kypez]

Originally Posted by tempted

People will come up with all sorts of crap to try and discredit the VF. Face it, Holden have done well with it. Credit where credit is due.

I do like the VF, just like the FGX more. I do like the HUD and the automatic parking as that addresses a big problem people have with big cars (especially from women I know). They hate trying to park it.

No need to discredit the VF. It's a great car and up to the times. The engines and driving experience let it down for me. But if you want the tech, I've told many people that the VF would be better suited to them.

[arronm]

Originally Posted by kypez

The OD will increase by a huge margin of I ran the same profile on 20's over 19's!

Besides, they don't need to be similar to each other. That's the whole point! The comp knows they are different and calculates accordingly. Bit like the cars that had a 19 inch front and 20 inch rear. There is no need for them to have similar OD front and rear!

Dear God you have no clue! Now run off to your mate and ask him to back you...

OT: I love the look of the XR8. I've left a deposit for the run out special that might happen. Though I have also said I'd go the XR6T if the special edition does happen

You obviously have no idea how traction control and dynamic stability control work.

Go and have a read and learn.

Can other forum member chime in. Because he thinks I speak with forked tongue...

[graphicgoose]

Originally Posted by kypez

No need to discredit the VF. It's a great car and up to the times. The engines and driving experience let it down for me. But if you want the tech, I've told many people that the VF would be better suited to them.

I don't think driving experience lets the VF down, lack of power yes, but not driving experience. I took my VF for a decent blat through the same hills run I'd taken the GT before and through the corners it instills monumentally more confidence than my GT did, even with the Shockworks. In the GT you'd be fighting understeer on entry to get it just right, then it'd get unsettled with the weight transfer mid corner and then the tail got happy on the way out. The VF turns in beautifully, stays very flat and doesn't get unsettled with the weight transfer through the corner and then squats down and just powers out of the corner. Granted it has less power, therefore is going to be less tail happy on power down, but the handling between these two cars is worlds apart. I can definitely see why the VF won around Wakefield in the video comparison.

Value for money, if power alone is what you want from your car, the XR8 is great...but the VF is a much better package. If the Miami was in the VF it'd be heaven!

[Windsor220]

VF is ok but its a bit bland

[HULK_I6T]

I can't believe people are bagging out the Vf for its performance of all things? It has a 6.0L V8 under the hood that would kill any ford pre Miami/i6t, still around the same performance as an xr6t. Sure the xr8 has better performance but by no means is the Vf ss a slouch lol.

If (or when) VF go with the ls3 in the ss, I think as a total package it can't be ignored. I find the xr8 explosive on the performance front but an average car otherwise.

Some people would buy an EA falcon in 2014/15 if they re released it with a Miami under the hood

[Maka]

Originally Posted by HULK_I6T

I can't believe people are bagging out the Vf for its performance of all things? It has a 6.0L V8 under the hood that would kill any ford pre Miami/i6t, still around the same performance as an xr6t. Sure the xr8 has better performance but by no means is the Vf ss a slouch lol.

If (or when) VF go with the ls3 in the ss, I think as a total package it can't be ignored. I find the xr8 explosive on the performance front but an average car otherwise.

Some people would buy an EA falcon in 2014/15 if they re released it with a Miami under the hood

But i'snt that what great performance car's are all about, slightly lacking on the interior niceties but plenty of stick, brakes & handling?

A mate has got a VF SS & i reckon it's a fine all round performance car with plenty of nice gear inside. It look's pretty nice too, but so does the new XR8 in it's own way!

cheers, Maka

[SensationFG8]

Yep if I wanted refinement I wouldn't be looking at either of these cars...

If I want raw muscle and a bit of tail end fun then the Ford is the only one with the engine and handling to please.

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by Maka

But i'snt that what great performance car's are all about, slightly lacking on the interior niceties but plenty of stick, brakes & handling?

I thought a performance car came reasonably well equipped and it’s a sports car that relies less on the bells and whistles.

Otherwise you couldn’t refer to all those fast Germans as performance cars.

And a sports car really needs to be nibble and have great handling properties.

A performance car these days needs to be fast and comfortable.

Even the XY GTHO was based on the Fairmont.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by HULK_I6T

I can't believe people are bagging out the Vf for its performance of all things? It has a 6.0L V8 under the hood that would kill any ford pre Miami/i6t, still around the same performance as an xr6t. Sure the xr8 has better performance but by no means is the Vf ss a slouch lol.

If (or when) VF go with the ls3 in the ss, I think as a total package it can't be ignored. I find the xr8 explosive on the performance front but an average car otherwise.

Some people would buy an EA falcon in 2014/15 if they re released it with a Miami under the hood

You do realise that 70% of the VF range has a V6 motor and almost 90% falcons will be Inline 6. The Inline 6 and EcoBoost, IMO are better than the VF offerings. The EcoBoost > 3.0 V6 and the I6 > 3.6 V6. The Ecoboost gives you fantastic balance over the front end and the I6 delivers its torque so effortlessly its fantastic.

Originally Posted by graphicgoose

I don't think driving experience lets the VF down, lack of power yes, but not driving experience. I took my VF for a decent blat through the same hills run I'd taken the GT before and through the corners it instills monumentally more confidence than my GT did, even with the Shockworks. In the GT you'd be fighting understeer on entry to get it just right, then it'd get unsettled with the weight transfer mid corner and then the tail got happy on the way out. The VF turns in beautifully, stays very flat and doesn't get unsettled with the weight transfer through the corner and then squats down and just powers out of the corner. Granted it has less power, therefore is going to be less tail happy on power down, but the handling between these two cars is worlds apart. I can definitely see why the VF won around Wakefield in the video comparison.

Value for money, if power alone is what you want from your car, the XR8 is great...but the VF is a much better package. If the Miami was in the VF it'd be heaven!

Sure. As I said before, wasnt only talking SS here (Though the topic is SS VS XR8).

As I said, I prefer the snappy shorter Wheel base of the XR8 over the SS. Everyone has a different driving style as I've mentioned. I put down quicker times in the GTF than I did with a GTS LSA at Wakefield cause it didnt suit my style of driving.

Also just because you have Shockworks, they arent the be all and end all of suspension. I'd even ask, did you adjust them for the roads you were on? Was it setup correctly? Or have you set it once and never changed it again?

[arronm]

This is a muscle car. The term is used very loosely these days.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by arronm

This is a muscle car. The term is used very loosely these days.

image

With those wheels/tyres, he's lucky he doesnt have DSC...

[SensationFG8]

Originally Posted by arronm

This is a muscle car. The term is used very loosely these days.

This coming from a someone talking about how good refinement is in a holden...

Not that I disagree with the awesomeness of the pic, it's just so funny given your stance on the discussion.

[Maka]

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

I thought a performance car came reasonably well equipped and it’s a sports car that relies less on the bells and whistles.

Otherwise you couldn’t refer to all those fast Germans as performance cars.

And a sports car really needs to be nibble and have great handling properties.

A performance car these days needs to be fast and comfortable.

Even the XY GTHO was based on the Fairmont.

A sports car predominately can be a lightweight two seater with or without the interior goodies, the German vehicles you refer to are i believe sport's saloon's & in the case of Audi R8, TT etc, well they are in a class of their own.

What's the difference between a performance car & a muscle car?

Both can be a bit heavy though one handle's well & goes well in a straight line, the other goes well in a straight line only imo.

cheers, Maka

[mik]

Really your car is whatever you make it to be.

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by Maka

A sports car predominately can be a lightweight two seater with or without the interior goodies, the German vehicles you refer to are i believe sport's saloon's & in the case of Audi R8, TT etc, well they are in a class of their own.

What's the difference between a performance car & a muscle car?

Both can be a bit heavy though one handle's well & goes well in a straight line, the other goes well in a straight line only imo.

cheers, Maka

There’s not much need for argument as what you say is fair enough.

Sports sedan, sports saloon, performance car, muscle car, what’s in a loosely used term?

German’s also make 2 door no rear seat options of their performance models.

None of them are really sports cars.

And if you remember back to the muscle car era you’ll also remember many of them came far better equipped and were offered many more options than their base model equivalents.

And apart from the homologation of some for racing purposes which could also be spec’d up, yesterday’s muscle car is much the same as today’s performance car. The fast cars of the 60's & 70's are bare by today’s standards but not by the criteria of their time of manufacture.

I wasn't having a go at the two in question here, if the blinkers are taken off people would find both are great performance cars.

Despite the arguments, one is quicker in a straight line, one is quicker around a track and they come with varying options. It all depends on what you like and you can say that about all cars that compete in the same segments.

[SensationFG8]

Correction one might be quicker around a small track based on one drivers test.

I'd be interested in seeing more such comparisons on varying tracks.

[Freiherr]

Originally Posted by arronm

This is a muscle car. The term is used very loosely these days.

image

Are you kidding. As good as the 67 Dodge 426 Hemi is, Aussie muscle cars will challenge and beat without too much effort.
The Charger out of the factory did the standing quarter mile in 13.5 secs @ 105 mph and a top speed of 139 mph. This was not bad in the 60s/70s but the XR8 would have no problems on any track.

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

Correction one might be quicker around a small track based on one drivers test.

I'd be interested in seeing more such comparisons on varying tracks.

Whatever.

I didn’t say which was quicker when or how, nor do I care.

I don’t understand why some people are so frightened by a competitor that every little point must be address.

The thread is eleven pages of head banging.

[Maka]

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

There’s not much need for argument as what you say is fair enough.

Sports sedan, sports saloon, performance car, muscle car, what’s in a loosely used term?

German’s also make 2 door no rear seat options of their performance models.

None of them are really sports cars.

And if you remember back to the muscle car era you’ll also remember many of them came far better equipped and were offered many more options than their base model equivalents.

And apart from the homologation of some for racing purposes which could also be spec’d up, yesterday’s muscle car is much the same as today’s performance car. The fast cars of the 60's & 70's are bare by today’s standards but not by the criteria of their time of manufacture.

I wasn't having a go at the two in question here, if the blinkers are taken off people would find both are great performance cars.

Despite the arguments, one is quicker in a straight line, one is quicker around a track and they come with varying options. It all depends on what you like and you can say that about all cars that compete in the same segments.

Well said, i agree with you LoudPipes. Remember those late 50's to late 60's sport's car's, now they were real sports car's weren't they!

Old mate with his Healy - Hi honey just going for a "quck jaunt" around Le Man, Mrs - see ya in a couple of day's & dont forget your helmet, goggles & driving gloves! Yeah Baby!

Bot, the consumer is the winner. Just like others have said earlier, take your pick, what kind of driver are you & let that help you decide what you want. For me, its XR8 for sure, no bias either it's more sport (especially with a change of tire's).

cheers, Maka

[335POWER]

Originally Posted by arronm

This is a muscle car. The term is used very loosely these days.

image

That's one hot ride! Loved those Chargers since, well, I saw Domenic Toretto in it in Fast and Furious......

[graphicgoose]

Originally Posted by kypez

Also just because you have Shockworks, they arent the be all and end all of suspension. I'd even ask, did you adjust them for the roads you were on? Was it setup correctly? Or have you set it once and never changed it again?

I adjusted the suspension depending on what sort of driving I was doing based on Brett's recommendations for settings for each type of driving. Noticeably changed and suited each setup very well. I've never said I didn't enjoy belting the GT around, the track we did our drive day on was great fun...but it was clearly evident the car was nose heavy and tail happy. Each their own, they're both great cars...but personally I prefer my VF from a daily driver standpoint. GT was fun to go rip skids in though

[SensationFG8]

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

Whatever.

I didn’t say which was quicker when or how, nor do I care.

I don’t understand why some people are so frightened by a competitor that every little point must be address.

The thread is eleven pages of head banging.

You didn't say, you simply implied it. Why the rage, you talk about head banging but you flew off at one small statement? I think it's fair to say one track test where the test is on a relatively small track is not enough to declare a "winner".

Threads like this are always bound to contain some head banging.

[XBGTFGGTP]

Originally Posted by Freiherr

Are you kidding. As good as the 67 Dodge 426 Hemi is, Aussie muscle cars will challenge and beat without too much effort.
The Charger out of the factory did the standing quarter mile in 13.5 secs @ 105 mph and a top speed of 139 mph. This was not bad in the 60s/70s but the XR8 would have no problems on any track.

Think you mean 14 sec. No E49 did a 13 sec 1/4m stock.

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by Maka

For me, its XR8 for sure, no bias either it's more sport (especially with a change of tire's).

cheers, Maka

I’d probably go the Ford as well.

And simply for the reason that I've never owned a supercharged V8 car and something with that sort of power would be fun to own and experience.

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

You didn't say, you simply implied it. Why the rage, you talk about head banging but you flew off at one small statement? I think it's fair to say one track test where the test is on a relatively small track is not enough to declare a "winner".

Threads like this are always bound to contain some head banging.

No rage here, more a case of interested indifference and if you hadn’t have commented on my post I would have gone my merry way.

If you took the posts of 2 or 3 members out of this thread it would have only lasted a couple of pages.

I honestly couldn’t have an internet argument for this long over something the antagonists are never going to agree on.

I’d just say my piece, maybe throw back and forth a few times and then leave it at that. It’s not that important.

All the more when the posts have become nothing more than cut and paste reading.

I’ll leave you too it, I’ll admit you’ve got a very nice car with your GT F and the XR8 is great, I’m envious but if it was mine I’d be quietly reserved and smile to myself that it offers everything that I want.

[SensationFG8]

Some of us come here to discuss things, it is after all a forum. I wish you farewell.

I think I've stated why I've posted in this thread before, there is some clear misinformation being spread, this is a ford forum, people may come here to research their buy. If all our members are sitting here saying Holden is the best with no counter that isn't good for the brand. Simple fact Miami is king in the price point motor wise, the thing I found most astonishing here was some people actually want to say the motor isn't that great. Bag lack of toys, interior, whatever else you want. The one thing ford did get right was the motor!

As an owner I'm of one of those amazing motors I think it would be wrong to not step up and correct the Holden camp when they post on a ford forum.

I don't goto ls1 and post cos I don't own one. Had I bought a Holden when I did my test drives I guarantee I would not be here ramming it down anyone's throat.

[mik]

Originally Posted by XBGTFGGTP

Think you mean 14 sec. No E49 did a 13 sec 1/4m stock.

never ever seen a factory charger go that fast , nor reviewed that fast, the old chargers seem to be getting faster as they get older.

[2242100]

Originally Posted by HULK_I6T

I can't believe people are bagging out the Vf for its performance of all things? It has a 6.0L V8 under the hood that would kill any ford pre Miami/i6t, still around the same performance as an xr6t. Sure the xr8 has better performance but by no means is the Vf ss a slouch lol.

If (or when) VF go with the ls3 in the ss, I think as a total package it can't be ignored. I find the xr8 explosive on the performance front but an average car otherwise.

Some people would buy an EA falcon in 2014/15 if they re released it with a Miami under the hood

High HULK I6_T.
The VF Commodore and FG Turbo's might be close when the Turbo's overboost feature is not working after a number of back to back runs without cooldown runs in between. However in everyday real world driving it seems that the overboost feature puts the XR 6T quite a bit ahead. Also it's ballistic if there is enough grip to launch with a 22-2300 rpm stall.

I wouldn't expect a VF SS to get to 100 in 4.56 seconds at nearly 700 metres altitude as my unmodified and untuned Auto XR6 T did with a 90 kg plus driver. Also total load was a bit more than a full fuel load and there was a full sized spare. The only plus the car had going for it was a reasonably cool 14 degree temperature.

As I've mentioned before, My GPS based Performance Box (the same model as MOTOR has been using) was used on another stock FG Turbo 2 months older than mine and it had equal rolling acceleration to my XR6T. Also there have been a few fast standard FG Turbo times on the Ford XR 6 Turbo.com.au forum.
Mine is apparently no freak and it confirmed the Performance Boxes measured times when it ran a dragstrip timing gear measured 12.509 second quarter mile time at WSID.

That said though I'm definitely not knocking the VF SS Commodore's, they seem like a great overall car.