All things Solar (merged threads)

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by SJG351

Guys when i try to upload a pic i get a message about a security token? I get told to contact admin

Try using Postimage...........

https://postimages.org/

[73 4V XB]

A bit of information using Postimage.org.
https://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11482048

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by zilo

Nope, many think that...but grid feed inverters have anti-islanding by design..grid down...inverter stops in milliseconds....grid feed inverters need 50hz reference...if that isn't detected...off she goes for a while before it tries again....with increasing wait duration per retry.

Try it...switch your main board feed off and watch your inverter stop...and very quickly too.

Our distributor requires this test be conducted by the PV owner at least every year, to confirm it is working.

I still think you'd be in a world of grief if you failed to inform your distributor that you had a mains feed PV system and didn't declare it, should your PV system fail to anti-island in the event of a grid shut down for maintenance work.

Not something I'd recommend anyone do (not register your system with your distributor).

[zilo]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Our distributor requires this test be conducted by the PV owner at least every year, to confirm it is working.

I still think you'd be in a world of grief if you failed to inform your distributor that you had a mains feed PV system and didn't declare it, should your PV system fail to anti-island in the event of a grid shut down for maintenance work.

Not something I'd recommend anyone do (not register your system with your distributor).

Ahhh...Mr FG falcon....


If your smart meter isnt "coded" for grid feeding you will not grid feed, you will merely reduce in house self consumption, but hey mate...thanks for the advice...

( the point i was making was that it ain't rocket science...an inverter is just another appliance with a 240v connection)

The guy who installed my 2kw system a few years back was around 30 years old and had 6 investment properties in Melbourne...gotta love govt rebates they hide the profit margin nicely....not a bad gig for a sparky with a Nimbin hippidity dippidy CEC membership.

As for everyone doing an islanding test every year...no problems...you can be guaranteed at least one street failure every year with privatisation of the networks....so everyone does a "test" by default...some many many times a year especially over summer...



AFF takes no responsibility for any advice given on these forums. AFF highly recommends that you use your common sense and employ a licensed electrician for any type of electrical work particularly installing solar panels.

[zilo]

Having some fun playing around with the battery pack out of a written off Hybrid Camry.

Bought on FB for 200 bucks....cheap fun....

Very well designed and screwed together bit of kit.

Hoping it works well enough to power a shed on the other side of the "block".

[shedcoupe]

I'm surprised that hybrid or electric cars aren't commonly stolen for their battery packs to be used for stand-alone solar power given that panels are so cheap.
Or maybe they do get stolen ?

My peach tree is pumping out the fruit so it goes into the solar dryer.
A glass box made of recycled glass shower screens and doors with a clear polycarbonate roof attached to the eastern side of a shed. About 3 m x 1.2 m.
There's a twin electric extractor fan setup from an X-Trail radiator ($5) powered by a grid-connect solar panel ($10).
The fans are in series with some 1.5 mm² cable giving useful voltage drop.
Speed control is via some steel sheet or a roller blind draped over one side of the panel.
Fruit slices are placed on racks made of steel IBC (pod) offcuts and security screen black steel mesh offcuts.
Works a treat.
Ants don't seem to be a problem as yet.

[Crazy Dazz]

I haven't looked into this for a while, so I don't know if the WA laws or technology has changed??
Is there anyway to switch (simply) between Grid and Off-Grid, in the event that the Grid goes down??
Not withstanding that I understand that grid-invertors are designed to shut-down by default, the last time I looked into this, the law in WA said that your invertor MUST shut down when disconnected from the grid. (I can only assume that completely off-grid systems were exempt from this requirement).
The result was that in the event of grid failure, you could not isolate and power your own home.
We live in an old suburb, with overhead power, and outages are annoying. (Plus there is always the impending zombie apocalypse.)

[wodahs]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

I haven't looked into this for a while, so I don't know if the WA laws or technology has changed??
Is there anyway to switch (simply) between Grid and Off-Grid, in the event that the Grid goes down??
Not withstanding that I understand that grid-invertors are designed to shut-down by default, the last time I looked into this, the law in WA said that your invertor MUST shut down when disconnected from the grid. (I can only assume that completely off-grid systems were exempt from this requirement).
The result was that in the event of grid failure, you could not isolate and power your own home.
We live in an old suburb, with overhead power, and outages are annoying. (Plus there is always the impending zombie apocalypse.)

im in WA and now have grid batteries
i also talked them in to throwing in a extra package at no extra cost and its all been installed already and was approved by the west gov body western power
i have the blackout package
this will not run the whole house as the battery inverter apparently cant cope with the bungee power spikes n drops as power increases or drops and this slack is taken up by western power
however there are essential circuits wired in that in a blackout i cant tax power up to a certain Kw per that the batteries inverter can cope with for lights and a few other power outlets
but nothing like hot water , oven , aircon
and as long as there is power in the batteries
the only other caveat i know of is the grid cant/isnt allowed to power the batteries as such

[zilo]

Originally Posted by shedcoupe

I'm surprised that hybrid or electric cars aren't commonly stolen for their battery packs to be used for stand-alone solar power given that panels are so cheap.
Or maybe they do get stolen ?

.

Not worth stealing a Camry battery pack...only 1.8kw....

but a Tesla on the other hand.....100kw!

[zilo]

Originally Posted by wodahs

.....the only other caveat i know of is the grid cant/isnt allowed to power the batteries as such

Nah....you can install an off grid system connected to the grid by having a battery charger connected to the grid charging the batteries...grid goes down...battery charger stops charging....batteries not connected to grid so no compliance issues.

Think of it as having a battery charger connected to your car battery...when the grid goes down do you have to do anything?

On a state of the art SMA Sunny Island system you can connect the grid to the generator input of the inverter and the grid operator doesn't need to know a damn thing....but of course there is no grid feed....

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

I haven't looked into this for a while, so I don't know if the WA laws or technology has changed??
Is there anyway to switch (simply) between Grid and Off-Grid, in the event that the Grid goes down??

Yep...it's called a changeover switch...needs an electrician to install.

Basically up position is grid to house, middle all off, lower position off grid power to house (or generator)

Around two hundred bucks fitted it cost me.

[wodahs]

Originally Posted by zilo

Nah....you can install an off grid system connected to the grid by having a battery charger connected to the grid charging the batteries...grid goes down...battery charger stops charging....batteries not connected to grid so no compliance issues.

Think of it as having a battery charger connected to your car battery...when the grid goes down do you have to do anything?

On a state of the art SMA Sunny Island system you can connect the grid to the generator input of the inverter and the grid operator doesn't need to know a damn thing....but of course there is no grid feed....

firstly if you read the whole of what i typed and what i quoted youd see we were only talking bout grid connected setups
and secondly well plain you wouldnt need this caveat you quoted me on as with off grid as there is no way it could charge from the grid

yes i know all about off grid systems and still chose this route with my current circumstances , i was just answering the question asked

[wodahs]

Originally Posted by zilo

Yep...it's called a changeover switch...needs an electrician to install.

Basically up position is grid to house, middle all off, lower position off grid power to house (or generator)

Around two hundred bucks fitted it cost me.

with this does the excess power made by the solar system feed back in to the grid ? or just waste ?
also why if you have a stand alone off grid system would you still want to be grid connected ?

[AlanD]

Originally Posted by wodahs

with this does the excess power made by the solar system feed back in to the grid ? or just waste ?
also why if you have a stand alone off grid system would you still want to be grid connected ?

Hi, answer to second question first. I do not know, except that the capacity of the off grid system might not be able to provide power to the premises in the longer term when weather conditions do not allow sufficient charging across a number of days. In that circumstance you might want to be able to access grid power, eg restaurants do not want foodstuffs, either fresh or pre-prepared to spoil.

First question, which I think, is that you want to know if the capacity of a system that can be connected to the grid, or stand alone, wastes that part of its capability that is not being used to power the premises when it is off grid? Well, you could argue that it gets wasted, but better to understand that the generator simply adjusts its output to match the load that is being supplied. In the case of a PV array feeding an inverter the dc input current falls to match what the inverter sees on its output side. If the generator is an ICE driving an alternator it simply uses less fuel and can last for more hours.

Zilo's changeover switch concept can be automated and is for places like Hospitals and airports, where loss of grid power could be life challenging. (You don't want operating theatres or lead in to runway and runway lights suddenly being without power - bit disconcerting for surgeons and pilots.)

I own an ICE powered alternator, but connecting it up to the house so that all I have to do is start the thing up is a challenge because the alternator location is remote from the distribution board and I do not have a dedicated feed circuit for it. Also I'm not sure if the output frequency is stable enough to get the PV system inverter working. Still working on a solution for this.

Hope I've helped.

Cheers

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by wodahs

also why if you have a stand alone off grid system would you still want to be grid connected ?

No way would I want to be connected, for a start it wouldn't be considered offgrid.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by wodahs

with this does the excess power made by the solar system feed back in to the grid ? or just waste ?

Just waste...but giving power to multinational companies virtually for nothing is not waste in my opinion..it gives more options for self consumption.
I would rather operate an aircon with all the windows open rather than sell at 4c/kwh...but that's just me...

Originally Posted by wodahs

also why if you have a stand alone off grid system would you still want to be grid connected ?

It make for a true non stop power system...rather than run a generator you use the grid for automatic emergency backup...can be a lot less maintenance and no skills required by the operator....having said that a 100 bucks a quarter buys a fair bit of diesel...

[zilo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

No way would I want to be connected, for a start it wouldn't be considered offgrid.

How so?

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by zilo

How so?

Well technically you are connected to the grid if it not a RAPS.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by AlanD

Zilo's changeover switch concept can be automated and is for places like Hospitals and airports, where loss of grid power could be life challenging.

Yep...also try telling my missus that she has to do anything if the lights go out in the middle of cooking dinner...or the toilet won't flush cause the water pump ain't working from the tank water..

Originally Posted by AlanD

I own an ICE powered alternator, but connecting it up to the house so that all I have to do is start the thing up is a challenge because the alternator location is remote from the distribution board and I do not have a dedicated feed circuit for it. Also I'm not sure if the output frequency is stable enough to get the PV system inverter working. Still working on a solution for this.

Hope I've helped.

Cheers

I don't think you can synchronise the generator to the PV inverter, many have tried and all have failed. Being even a tiny fraction of an AC cycle out presents itself as a short circuit....the bigger the phase shift the bigger the short circuit....usually a bang.

But...there are inverters around that take care of all that.
An AC coupled system with say...a Sunny island and SMA grid feed inverter will do exactly what you require including controlling the generator...this can be done on battery state of charge and even can start the generator to aggregate the AC load if say...welding etc.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Well technically you are connected to the grid if it not a RAPS.

I would rather say you are off grid if not physically connected to the grid.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by zilo

I would rather say you are off grid if not physically connected to the grid.

FFS thats what I said. Maybe not the way you would.

[wodahs]

Originally Posted by AlanD

Hi, answer to second question first. I do not know, except that the capacity of the off grid system might not be able to provide power to the premises in the longer term when weather conditions do not allow sufficient charging across a number of days. In that circumstance you might want to be able to access grid power, eg restaurants do not want foodstuffs, either fresh or pre-prepared to spoil.

First question, which I think, is that you want to know if the capacity of a system that can be connected to the grid, or stand alone, wastes that part of its capability that is not being used to power the premises when it is off grid? Well, you could argue that it gets wasted, but better to understand that the generator simply adjusts its output to match the load that is being supplied. In the case of a PV array feeding an inverter the dc input current falls to match what the inverter sees on its output side. If the generator is an ICE driving an alternator it simply uses less fuel and can last for more hours.

Zilo's changeover switch concept can be automated and is for places like Hospitals and airports, where loss of grid power could be life challenging. (You don't want operating theatres or lead in to runway and runway lights suddenly being without power - bit disconcerting for surgeons and pilots.)

I own an ICE powered alternator, but connecting it up to the house so that all I have to do is start the thing up is a challenge because the alternator location is remote from the distribution board and I do not have a dedicated feed circuit for it. Also I'm not sure if the output frequency is stable enough to get the PV system inverter working. Still working on a solution for this.

Hope I've helped.

Cheers

this i fully understand and did at the time i answered the question to which i was commented on that led to this (refer further up to original question)

Originally Posted by zilo

Just waste...but giving power to multinational companies virtually for nothing is not waste in my opinion..it gives more options for self consumption.
I would rather operate an aircon with all the windows open rather than sell at 4c/kwh...but that's just me...

and yet even be it only a small amount i was getting more than 4c (was around 47c) and with the new changes i will still get more than 4c (around 10c and i do agree it should be more ) but it is still better than nothing and offsetting my connection fee

Originally Posted by zilo

It make for a true non stop power system...rather than run a generator you use the grid for automatic emergency backup...can be a lot less maintenance and no skills required by the operator....having said that a 100 bucks a quarter buys a fair bit of diesel...

which negates the question i was answering if you would like to go back and refer to it

in the event that the Grid goes down
I understand that grid-invertors are designed to shut-down by default
The result was that in the event of grid failure, you could not isolate and power your own home.

so as asked to power the house durin a grid failure event not power the house from the grid when the batteries are flat
i can and do with the situation i have stated above
and i am grid connected

[zilo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

FFS thats what I said. Maybe not the way you would.

Nothing to do with RAPS.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by wodahs

which negates the question i was answering if you would like to go back and refer to it

Your syntax is so poor I can't understand what you say, so will not talk to you again.

[wodahs]

thats fine by me
even if thats the reason you have to cease replying
the info i gave still is in line with what asked by and answering crazy dazz for the state we both share to live in

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by zilo

Nothing to do with RAPS.

Geeze, where have you been, RAPS is the original name given to any offgrid power system.
REMOTE AREA POWER SYSTEM

I will say it again......The remote part refers to not connected to any grid connected power source in any way shape or form.

btw......The term doesn't just mean out in the boondocks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-alone_power_system

[zilo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Geeze, where have you been, RAPS is the original name given to any offgrid power system.
REMOTE AREA POWER SYSTEM

I will say it again......The remote part refers to not connected to any grid connected power source in any way shape or form.

btw......The term doesn't just mean out in the boondocks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-alone_power_system

My first solar installation was in 1986.

I really, really, really do not need you to explain that acronym to me.

(or any other solar related matter)

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by zilo

My first solar installation was in 1986.

I really, really, really do not need you to explain that acronym to me.

(or any other solar related matter)

Funny so was mine, I really, really, really think I do.

[wodahs]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Funny so was mine, I really, really, really think I do.

thats about when i use to work for a small company delivering and manually instaling hospital and big buildings swiching gear and UPS systems along side the leccy techs
small transport compny now known as C.O.P.E

even tho by trade im a railways deisel fitter for deisel electric units

how things have change since them days

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by wodahs

thats about when i use to work for a small company delivering and manually instaling hospital and big buildings swiching gear and UPS systems along side the leccy techs
small transport compny now known as C.O.P.E

even tho by trade im a railways deisel fitter for deisel electric units

how things have change since them days

Still see COPE trucks. Wasn't it called COPE sensitive at the time.