Holden closure

[OCTANEBOSS]

Would it be possible to bring back tariffs on imported cars that could cover the shortfall the Australian car manufacturers need to keep people in jobs for a bit longer so we can come up with a better solution to the manufacturing problems we have. If the offshore manufacturers don't like it they can always import them somewhere else. No doubt there will be a hundreds of reasons this cant happen, but who cares, its our country, our jobs & our future. Listening to whats been happening recently has made me realize some things are worth protecting. Are car industry is one of them along with the others

[kypez]

Originally Posted by redloamrules

Would it be possible to bring back tariffs on imported cars that could cover the shortfall the Australian car manufacturers need to keep people in jobs for a bit longer so we can come up with a better solution to the manufacturing problems we have. If the offshore manufacturers don't like it they can always import them somewhere else. No doubt there will be a hundreds of reasons this cant happen, but who cares, its our country, our jobs & our future. Listening to whats been happening recently has made me realize some things are worth protecting. Are car industry is one of them along with the others

Too late now. The horse has bolted

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Express

That’s my slant on it. Good cars were let down by not keeping pace with the creature comforts most people love. If the buying public were all performance enthusiasts Ford and Holden would out sell everything on the market but most people care little about performance and those things that mean less to us killed these two brands.


.

And, to follow on from this, one main aim of the "Button Plan" was to help improve the technology and features of the local made cars...

[Auslandau]

Would you say then that if someone like FPV spent the money on tit bits rather than a supercharger and stuck with the n/a 5.0 ...... would that have boosted things along? Same as Holden. Drop both Omega and XT (Both stupid and downgrading names) and concentrated on the cup holders, keyless start etc? Possibly worked on a smaller sized model like C'dore was back in the day when the VB vs XD big vs small was happening?

Would have there been a different scenario to what is today?

While the S/C GT is what made me buy one, I cannot beleive the amount of people who wanted it, would buy it and then didn't. It wasn't because of the lack of HP. HSV have less but sold more!

[OCTANEBOSS]

Originally Posted by kypez

Too late now. The horse has bolted

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Agreed & the gate has been open for decades. The problem with our leaders today is that they do not have big enough testicles or front bums to stand up and do anything about it.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by superyob

Hypothetical scenario (and I am not trying to be smart here) - I am going to trade in my old ZD for a new Jap/Euro... What gadgets will they have that are so important that would impress me?

its subjective, so I don't know what you'd find useful. but for me, things like Bluetooth, MP3 playback, reverse camera, parking sensors, seat heating, blindspot warning, etc... they are certainly handy for me to have, and would sway me from another vehicle that wasn't much better to drive.

go have a look at the std equipment list on a VF redline for example... it puts FPVs to shame which cost a bunch more.

performance isn't everything. for a daily driver, creature comforts can make a big difference to some, certainly explains why HSV continue to flog FPV in the sales charts.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Would you say then that if someone like FPV spent the money on tit bits rather than a supercharger and stuck with the n/a 5.0 ...... would that have boosted things along?

look at the VF redline. big on equipment, low on power (compared to HSV/FPV), and Holden cant make enough of them. the same is true of HSV, not as much go but way more bling, for more money.

[stevz]

So if there was a choice between a Hyundai Getz loaded to the brim with luxury items and gadgets, or a GT 335 stripped to basic bare bones spec, which would people take?
Going by the logic of some here, they would take the Getz. How sad.

[TC200six]

http://www.facebook.com/generalmotors

I see a lot of protesting on the General Motors Facebook page, mostly by a user named Matt Brokenbrough. They want GM to overturn their decision and continue making the Commodore forever. Yeah, good luck with that.

[jpd80]

I think another four years production of Commodore is very optimistic.

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by stevz

So if there was a choice between a Hyundai Getz loaded to the brim with luxury items and gadgets, or a GT 335 stripped to basic bare bones spec, which would people take?
Going by the logic of some here, they would take the Getz. How sad.

why are you comparing two completely different types of cars??? the average person that buys a Getz isn't gunna go after a supercharged V8 and likewise, someone looking at a GT 335 isn't going to look at a Getz.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by redloamrules

Would it be possible to bring back tariffs on imported cars that could cover the shortfall the Australian car manufacturers need to keep people in jobs for a bit longer so we can come up with a better solution to the manufacturing problems we have. If the offshore manufacturers don't like it they can always import them somewhere else. No doubt there will be a hundreds of reasons this cant happen, but who cares, its our country, our jobs & our future. Listening to whats been happening recently has made me realize some things are worth protecting. Are car industry is one of them along with the others

Hmm...force people to buy a near-$40,000 (or more) large six cylinder sedan when they don't actually want or need one by artificially raising the price on vehicles that they actually need or want...?

Yep...got good idea written all over it, doesn't it...

One of the "reasons it can't happen"...probably the main reason...is a simple one-word answer: "retaliation". If we heavily penalised imported cars to the extent needed to bring their price up to be equal to or more than the locally built pair of large cars (because it's only Falcon and Commodore we're talking about, two minor badges in a huge local line-up from both makers), then good luck trying to export food, minerals, or anything else to those countries affected. The trade barriers would come up overnight and we'd be ruined in ways that would affect us far worse than the dropping of two low-selling unpopular models of car.

As hard as it is for some people to believe, when the overwhelming majority of buyers go to purchase a car, they couldn't give a rats rectum about 0-100 times or quarter mile times...hell, beyond "how many cylinders has it got?", nearly all buyers don't even know or care how much power a car has, or which end is doing the driving.
That's the reality that Ford with the Falcon and Holden with the Commodore don't seem to have understood. Produce a car that people want in economically viable numbers, at a competitive price, and buyers will come.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I think another four years production of Commodore is very optimistic.

if the sales remain at reasonable levels, I imagine they'll want to recoup as much of their VF investment as possible. it remains to be seen what the effect on sales this decision has.

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by stevz

So if there was a choice between a Hyundai Getz loaded to the brim with luxury items and gadgets, or a GT 335 stripped to basic bare bones spec, which would people take?
Going by the logic of some here, they would take the Getz. How sad.

The thing that alot of enthusiasts don't seem to understand is that we are a minority. Most people aren't enthusiasts, they just want a car to drive around in. They dont need a blown 5 litre V8 putting out 400kw they just need a nice enough car that's reliable and can fit all the kids in. In those 2 cars you offered up there a comfortable, well spec'd, reliable Getz would be more desirable to the average buyer than an uncomfortable, featureless GT that's basically just a motor with wheels and seats. For daily commuting the Getz would tick alot more boxes than a stripped out GT, and even without being stripped out the GT's are very lacking when it comes to features.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

Most people aren't enthusiasts, they just want a car to drive around in. They dont need a blown 5 litre V8 putting out 400kw they just need a nice enough car that's reliable and can fit all the kids in.

Your right in saying majority are'nt enthusiasts, but the only thing most of this lot care about is the badge and the perceived image they think it brings.
They would tolerate driving a road grader if it adorned the badge of luxury.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by wildrider

why are you comparing two completely different types of cars??? the average person that buys a Getz isn't gunna go after a supercharged V8 and likewise, someone looking at a GT 335 isn't going to look at a Getz.

Have you not read anything in this thread?

[PepeLePew]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

The thing that alot of enthusiasts don't seem to understand is that we are a minority. Most people aren't enthusiasts, they just want a car to drive around in. They dont need a blown 5 litre V8 putting out 400kw they just need a nice enough car that's reliable and can fit all the kids in. In those 2 cars you offered up there a comfortable, well spec'd, reliable Getz would be more desirable to the average buyer than an uncomfortable, featureless GT that's basically just a motor with wheels and seats. For daily commuting the Getz would tick alot more boxes than a stripped out GT, and even without being stripped out the GT's are very lacking when it comes to features.

To be a tad fair in our scathing comments about GT's features VE was no better. FG has had a long stay between drinks and next year we'll have gadget city sans GT unfortunately. It's interesting to reflect that one vehicle that did a great job in shifting the market to the SUV style vehicle was the Territory. Did we shoot ourselves in the foot? For once Ford Aus spotted a niche, made a helluva successful pitch at it that still works today. But IMHO a cannibal factor in Falcons numbers.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by b0son

if the sales remain at reasonable levels, I imagine they'll want to recoup as much of their VF investment as possible. it remains to be seen what the effect on sales this decision has.

You can't trust GM, they say one thing and then do another..

Cruze model change over break point is late 2015, early 2016 so a big chunk of production will end then.
Sales of Commodore have barely cracked 3,000 even when coupled with heavily discounted VEs.
Plenty of SS stock at dealerships but everyone wants SSV, go figure, Omega and SV6 sales coming back
as fleets buy up the last of VE stock..

If the parts supplier base is terminal, logic dictates all three will probably cease around the end of 2016..
that's about 3-6 months after the next election in 2016.

[jamies]

The company that do HSV fusion Automotive they are already looking for other options of cars once HSV close..

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by stevz

Have you not read anything in this thread?

Have you?

The original point was that for the amount of money you fork out for a $75000 + local car, its equipment levels didn't reflect the (subjective) value in the price, given that imports have (again, subjective) a higher level of equipment.


The original point also showed that this bloke still bought the Australian product based on his basic needs (a V8) not gizmos, untill the W427 that is in Euro territory...

You are the only one that brought up a getz, miss comprehending the whole point (like a Getz is the epitome of equipment level), drawing ridiculous assumptions and ridiculing those who fail to side with your miss judged opinions.

[2011G6E]

I do notice that the media is in a frothing frenzy saying "Holden is closing!!!!!!!!".
It's not. As with Ford, Ford is not "closing", they're just stopping building one unpopular model that people aren't buying in numbers that make it economic to continue with.
There will still be dealerships, there will still be servicing and parts and a wide range of cars for sale with the Holden badge on it. As with Ford, after a certain date you just won't see a "Falcon" or "Commodore" nameplate sitting on the car yard forecourt.

And you can't avoid the fact these guys have very generous exit packages, a staggering four years notice, and surely will get a sympathetic government at the time to give them handouts and support that other workers simply don't get.
If I was them I'd start looking around for other options with the abundant time they have to plan for the future. I'm sure many of us here have been forced to make equally huge family decisions in a period of weeks, not years, when a job has finished or we have been given notice.

[ltd]

Good points 2011G6E.
I don't remember the same levels of fuss when Ford announced it was closing.
Then again, they only took half the subsidy of Holden over the same amount of time and (1.1 billion over 12 years to Holdens 2.2 billion over 12 years), then again, bashing Ford became a national sport as many deluded members of this forum have done repeatedly.

Could it be that the debate has become so politically motivated and the cheer-squad of the media are making more of a fuss to protect their AMWU mates and the "solidarity brother" mantra? Short-willy should know better than to politicise this immediate and tragic loss of jobs......... in four years time.

Maybe I'm cynical but when there's imposts on costs of production of over 100 million per year (carbon tax) for Holden, then the sitting government tries to repeal it and then those most vocal saying "We have to do something" block the repeal in the senate - then that makes them political hypocrites. This has more to do with their politician-incubator mates in the unions who they've acquiesced to repeatedly over the last 6 years. Now the free handouts have come to an end they're all crying foul.
Ford, Holden and Toyota are gone. They've ALL said it's too expensive to make cars here and they've all echoed the same reasons. Deal with it. Meanwhile, the future of the AMWU is in doubt:

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by jamies

The company that do HSV fusion Automotive they are already looking for other options of cars once HSV close..

Every man for himself now!

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by ryeman

Every man for himself now!

Yep, lot of people are going to feel "lost" when Ford and Holden stop making "classic" V8 performance cars.
However once you actually start to look around and forget the hard-wired brainwashing Australians have had drummed into them for decades (ie: only HSV and FPV make "performance cars"), and force yourself to walk into a few other dealerships, you might be surprised by what you discover...

[csv8]

Holden in a global perspective...too long too post.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/busi...213-2zcyb.html

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by csv8

Holden in a global perspective...too long too post.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/busi...213-2zcyb.html

Good read, and sensible.
It will probably hurt for a few people who think that we are this massive important world economy. We're not.
Not to mention, I think people will be surprised when we start getting more imported foreign stuff with features that we have never imagined we would see as standard in family cars. With Ford, look at the features standard in common family cars like the Fusion and Taurus. Especially Taurus, as that could be what we get when Falcon goes if they don't concentrate on models from Europe...which is a whole other kettle of fish and will also give some people a rude shock on what is considered "standard" levels of kit and refinement.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Yep, lot of people are going to feel "lost" when Ford and Holden stop making "classic" V8 performance cars.
However once you actually start to look around and forget the hard-wired brainwashing Australians have had drummed into them for decades (ie: only HSV and FPV make "performance cars"), and force yourself to walk into a few other dealerships, you might be surprised by what you discover...

I don't want to discover anything else. Nothing else, even an Aussie made Toyota, interests me or is culturally relevant to this total bogan who grew up loving Falcons, Fairlanes, Valiants, H series Monaros, Kingswoods, Statesmans, and some American muscle...

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by csv8

Holden in a global perspective...too long too post.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/busi...213-2zcyb.html

Great article on an unfortunate subject.

[ryeman]

^^^^no turning back time! but they surely will just be disposable white goods.
Complete eradication of passion, at least to me.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by ryeman

^^^^no turning back time! but they surely will just be disposable white goods.
Complete eradication of passion, at least to me.

Once we look beyond two minor models from two manufacturers, and start checking out the big bad world out there, you'll find there's plenty of "passion". It doesn't start and stop with two badges from big manufacturers produced by a tiny arm of the big US companies in a remote small country at the bottom of the world.